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About John 6


About John 6
Name: Eddie
Add a little more detail (optional): Hello!

I was just browsing the net and came across your site. I'm a Roman Catholic and I've always been puzzled by the fact that Baptists don't believe in the Real Presence of Christ at the Lord's Supper. I've always thought that John chapter 6 was quite clear on the matter but I'd be interested to know how you understand this part of scripture.

Peace be with you.
Eddie


4 Comments

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ASongOfDegrees
Mar 13 2013 08:25 AM

Hello. I'll try to answer your question.

 

From John 6:

 

[57] As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me

 

Jesus compares our living by him with his living by the Father. God is a Spirit and cannot be cannibalized. Therefore it can be logically concluded Jesus was using analogy here by comparing himself to bread.

 

From John 6:

 

[63] It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

 

Every Catholic who tries to claim Transubstantiation in John 6 always stops reading before they get to this verse when this verse is essential to understanding what Jesus is saying in John 6 concerning "the bread of life".

 

Jesus clearly tells you here that he is speaking in the spiritual sense and not a literal eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood like a cannibal. Even if you could eat his flesh (the thought is revolting) it would profit you nothing.

 

Also, where in the passage do you read anything about a priest having the ability to turn a wafer into the literal body of Christ or a cup of wine/grape juice into the literal blood of Jesus? Or that that would even be necessary to consume the literal body and blood of Christ if this is what Jesus is really claiming here? 

 

Do you honestly believe that the wafer and wine are being changed into the literal body and blood of Christ? And think of the implications. You are chewing God, digesting God and then defecating God. I just can't fathom you really believe this. If you think the Eucharist is being changed "symbolically" then I could almost swallow that (no pun intended) though even that would not be supported by scripture. But being changed literally to me seems too much like what some scared, ignorant, superstitious peasant from the year 1300 would think. Not an educated man from the 21st century who can read plain English.

 

The Eucharist was just another way that a hierarchical, religiopolitical organization used to keep people under it's complete control. If you and you only had the magical power to change the Euchraist into the literal body and blood of Christ and you and you only had the power to dispense said body and blood to souls in need of it than you and you only had complete control over the conscience and eternal salvation those people and could use this power to manipulate as you so desired.

 

I hope this helps you.

I believe this passage of Scripture explains the problem of John 6:

 

Mt 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Mt 13:12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
Mt 13:13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
Mt 13:14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
Mt 13:15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.

 

The Lord's manner of dealing with the Jewish people - and even people in general today - is to give them something simple to believe.  If they believe it, they end up getting salvation; if they do not believe the simplicity of the gospel, then they end up losing sight of the simplicity. 

 

Here is what happened in John 6:

First, the Jews sought Jesus Christ for the wrong reason - they wanted more food without working, but were not interested in Spiritual things. 

John 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

 

So right off the bat, this should teach us that we are treading in a very dangerous place.  The chapter is dealing with people who do not believe that Jesus CHrist is anything more than a prophet who can feed them for free.

Jesus Christ recognizes this, and then gives them a stern warning:

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

 

This warning went unheeded.

 

Then the Jews ask this question:

Joh 6:28 ΒΆ Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

 

 

Notice, they are trying to EARN everlasting life.  They have NO FAITH in Christ whatsoever. 

Jesus Christ's response is simple:  YOU CANNOT EARN ETERNAL LIFE - YOU MUST BELIEVE ON ME TO GET IT.

 

But notice how the Jews respond:

John 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

 

Can you believe they would ask this absurd question?  He had just miraculously fed them!  In addition, many other miracles had been performed by Jesus Christ, and none of his miracles were any secret!  This is an absolute rejection of what Jesus Christ had just said!  They did not WANT to believe on Him, and so they invented this absurd excuse not to believe!

 

So notice how Jesus Christ responds:

John 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

John 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

 

Notice what Jesus Christ points out:

You don't believe me,

but if you want everlasting life, it will not come by works, it will come by FAITH - and that in ME - and this is what God the Father wants everyone to do!

 

Notice again, that the Jews REJECT this message:

John 6:41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

 

Notice now the THIRD ATTEMPT by Jesus Christ to preach salvation by FAITH:

John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

 

It is only AFTER Christ's THREE CLEAR MESSAGES that were rejected that He begins with this "eat my flesh stuff."

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

 

So why does Jesus Christ do this?  BEcause those folks who were present had already rejected a clear message.  So now the Matthew 13 passage kicks in - The Lord hid the truth from them ON PURPOSE because they had already rejected a clear presentation of it THREE TIMES.

 

Finally, Jesus Christ explains to His bewildered disciples:

Joh 6:61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?
Joh 6:62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not.
For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.

 

In other words, How in the world are you going to eat my LITERAL flesh and my LITERAL blood if I am not even here? 

Answer: YOU CAN'T - no matter how much the Roman Catholic Church says she can! 

Then Jesus Christ says that the words He had just spoken were SPIRITUAL - not LITERAL.  He even says, "THE FLESH PROFITETH NOTHING."  In other words, you could eat my flesh till the kingdom comes and it won't give you everlasting life.  What I just told you was not LITERAL, but SPIRITUAL. 

 

The verses I posted above PROVE THIS.  It is BELIEF in Jesus Christ that gives us everlasting life, not the Mass.  How do I know? 

Because Jesus Christ said so THREE TIMES in the very passage that Rome uses to prove her heresy.

 

I honestly and sincerely hope that you will reject the teachings of Rome, and embrace the teachings of the HOly Bible.  You will not earn eternal life by the Mass, prayers, candles, etc.  Only Jesus Christ can save you.

Thank you Bro Steve.

'my thoughts are not your thoughts'. Yet theologians and bible scholars will use mans faulty logic to interpret the holy writ.

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