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#377941 Rules Vs. Principles

Posted by 2bLikeJesus on 24 June 2014 - 07:55 PM

I was out soul winning, door knocking in the area when someone who answered the door stated "I have heard of your church, you guys are the one's with all those rules."  I looked at him genuinely confused and said "we don't have ANY rules."   He said, "then why do you guys dress so different, and you don't drink, go dancing, go to movie theaters, or party like normal folks, and you go to church like several times a week?"  I told him it's because of a love for God and what he has done for us.  We find principles in His word that indicates what would be most pleasing to Him and out of love we do all we can to please Him.  You don't have to do ANY of those things to attend our church, that would make them rules that must be followed.  You don't need to follow any of those things to be saved either and on your way to heaven.  I then got the chance to explain a non-works salvation to him.

 

A person who needs rules, doesn't understand principles.

 

Galatians 5:18 (KJV)
18  But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.  If you are truly led of the Spirit, the Spirit will NEVER lead you to do anything that is contrary to God's will and Word, there is no need for the law. 

 

Rules are neccesary for a heart away from God.

 

Galatians 3:19a (KJV)
19  Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions

 

1 Corinthians 6:12 (KJV)
12  All things are lawful unto me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any [the Principle].

 

 1 Corinthians 10:23 (KJV

23  All things are lawful for me [the Law], but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not [the Principle]. 

 

The law makes nothing perfect.  Hebrews 7:19 (KJV

19  For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God. 

 

The law was not made for righteous men.  1 Timothy 1:8-10 (KJV

8  But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;
9  Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
10  For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 

 

Galatians 3:24 (KJV)
24  Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 

 

So many people, especially IFB's who have been raised since children in an IFB church, have no idea WHY we have the standards we do.  Until they understand that a standard is simply a self-imposed boundary set to help us keep a conviction that was formed by understanding a principle from God's word.  You first find a principle in God's word, and from that principle you form a conviction, and then a standard is set by yourself to help you keep that conviction. Because of this, some standards are entirely yours alone.  For instance, I will not allow myself to own a boat.  There is absolutely nothing wrong or sinful about boat ownership, but for me, outdoor recreation is a huge draw and I am weak enough to it ( "I will not be brought under the power of any"), that my ministry for God is hurt by it. Until people have standards put IN them by understanding the principles behind them, instead of ON them because "that's just the way we do things" they will never have them for their own and it is easy for them to backslide as soon as they are out of the house.  

 

Bro. Garry

In His will.  By His power.  For His glory.

 




#376513 Discussions & "debates" In Which I Would Like To Engage

Posted by BroMatt on 12 June 2014 - 04:34 PM

In that past we have had discussion where only certain members that wanted to can post in.
We did this for an atheist one time, it was not ""freestyle" but was done in a debate style and one could post at his/her convenience. We had rules that the "debaters" had to follow and everyone followed the rules and it went very smoothly.

Everyone could view the discussion. I guess it could be done again.


#370588 What Advice Do You Have Or Same-Sex Couples

Posted by Standing Firm In Christ on 21 April 2014 - 02:31 PM

In God's eyes, they are not married... Even if another state performed the ceremony.

As to letting them join the Church, a definite no. Unless of course, they separate and repent of their wickedness.


#373334 What Will Your Church Do When The Gay Movement Knocks...

Posted by John81 on 18 May 2014 - 04:52 PM

At the moment there is no law saying a church must grant membership to any particular person. There are also no current laws that force a pastor to marry anyone.

 

Our churches by-laws are clear with regards to the biblical requirements for membership and the discretion of the pastor to determine if those conditions are met. Similar is set forth regarding matters of marriage.

 

If there comes a time when laws are enacted that would force such, our church and pastor has already determined to stand in accord with Scripture, even if that means losing State sanction to "legally" marry folks. The same is true regarding the issue of weddings held at the church.

 

Having already established our position in these areas on the grounds of Scripture, we don't worry about what will come to pass for we are prepared. Will the government do more to us than was done to Paul? If God's grace was sufficient for Paul in all things and he was able to be content in all things, surely we can face what the future holds.




#367742 On One Of Them Most Holy Days...

Posted by 2bLikeJesus on 30 March 2014 - 03:04 PM

We had a first time visitor come forward at the invitation to be saved...and then his wife came forward about 30 seconds later...then one by one both his two teenage kids.  The entire family got saved today!  Now THAT was the first grand slam this season! 

 

Bro. Garry




#364879 Salvation

Posted by Bro K on 10 March 2014 - 12:00 PM

After many years of people praying for him; my brother-iin-law accepted Christ as his Savior last night!!!!  :clapping: :clap: 




#365866 Taught By Whom?

Posted by DaveW on 17 March 2014 - 02:58 AM

I get sick of people who revert their argument to "you were obviously taught that" whenever someone disagrees with them.

The claim of Darby gets thrown around here from time to time, as does the Claim of Ruckman, or Calvin.

Now there is nothing wrong with pointing out an alignment of teaching, but using it as an argument in itself is not valid.

For myself, I never went to a big Bible college anywhere, and all my instructors were and are working Pastors, not classroom intellectuals.
I never heard of Ruckman until after I was in the ministry.
I never heard of Darby until I joined this site.
I never knew anything about Scofield for many years, apart from that his name was on a Bible.
I didn't know much about Spurgeon apart from reading some of his sermons.

For many years due to having a full time job and trying to pastor as well as having a young family my preaching study was entirely from the Bible, for the pure reason that I did not have the time to consult commentaries or other pastors.
If I didn't understand something, I wouldn't preach it - even at times saying to the people that I don't understand the verses so we would just miss them until I did.
It was during those years that I formed much of my doctrinal stand.
As a result my position on most things I have commented on here is the result of my own personal study of God's Word, and is not influenced by "darcalruckin" or anyone else.
There are things I don't understand and that I therefore don't engage with here.

But when I do comment it is because I have seen something in a Bible passage that disagrees with what someone here has said - not because I read it in some commentary.

So there is enough of my history to show that I do not follow after any man.
If what I teach aligns with a man, then maybe in that item he also is Biblical, in spite of whatever else that man may teach.

And, to finish, I am just a man. What I believe to be Biblical will be influenced by all sorts of things.
I hope that if something I currently stand on is not Biblical that I can learn.

But throwing unfounded accusations will not make me listen to you.

Show me from the Bible - but don't expect me to blindly follow what you say either.
I will check it against the Bible, and if it doesn't fit, I will throw it away with the rest of the rubbish.

Yours sincerely,

Dave.


#353185 Gift Of Tongues

Posted by Left the Bldg on 12 December 2013 - 04:25 PM

I'm curious: what caused you to turn? After all, the big stumbling block for many is that they have experienced it, thus, it MUST be real, they believe. It must be difficult to have to admit to having been duped for so long. I applaud your willingness to break away.

I guess I realized that not everything we experience is from God.  So rather than base my belief on that experience, I put my belief in what the Bible says about it.




#384038 Wow, God Is Really Serious About This

Posted by 利百加 (Li Bai Jia) on 26 August 2014 - 07:45 PM

A few days ago a couple of people stopped by the church on their way to work. They had to walk and it was very hot even at that time of morning. They had run out of water in the one water bottle they had and just wanted to refill it with cold water. I let them refill it it from the jug in the refrigerator and then gave them some money. It wasn't a lot of money, but it was enough for them to buy another jug of water and lunch for the two of them. 

 

Both the man and woman were wearing dirty clothes and had betel nut (type of chewing tobacco) stained teeth and mouths, I could have very easily just told them I had no cold water available and not given them any money since they didn't ask for any(and assuming they might just spend it on more betel nut at the shop at the end of the block). But what kind of testimony would that have been? How would I have shown them the love of God by ignoring them? Will they ever return to the church for a service because I showed kindness? I have no idea. Would God have punished me if I had ignored them? Will God bless me for helping them? Again I don't know, and it really doesn't matter. We shouldn't do something because we expect to be blessed if we do it or fear punishment if we don't. We should do it because it's right. Probably nothing more will happen than peace in your heart for doing the right thing, but that should be enough. 

 

As Christians we should have a deep desire to help those who are struggling. It should be second nature. We shouldn't have to be commanded to do every little thing, and especially not something so basic like helping widows, orphans, the homeless, etc... Although I think God has made it abundantly clear over and over again throughout the Bible that we should do these things. God doesn't change. If he was serious about helping widows and orphans in the OT, he is still serious about it today.




#383110 Wow, God Is Really Serious About This

Posted by No Nicolaitans on 22 August 2014 - 11:48 AM

Both of these are to Israel.  Not the church of God.

 

Is this only for Israel?

 

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

 

What about this?

 

James 4:7
Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

 

...or this?

 

James 3:8
But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.

 

...or maybe this?

 

James 5:13-14

13   Is any among you afflicted? let him pray. Is any merry? let him sing psalms.
14   Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:

 

Wait...don't tell me...the word church there doesn't mean THE church, does it?

 

What about this?

 

James 1:22
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.

 

Now...maybe I'm wrong...I don't know...but I seem to recall that when THE church first began...it was comprised of...ISRAELITES!

 

Acts 2:41 & 47
41   Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

 

47   Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

But you would have me believe that James wasn't writing to THE church...he was only writing to Jews? I'm to believe that even though James was writing to saved Jewish believers...who were part of THE church, none of that applies to us today because it's only for the Jews?

 

I know this will sound bad, but it needs to be said...

 

A lot of this "right dividing" comes out of "left-field"...




#374828 Beware!devil At Work

Posted by BroMatt on 31 May 2014 - 11:25 AM

It is sad that this happens. I know pastors have it hard a lot of times because they have a church with people on all different spiritual levels. Some know hardly anything about the Bible while others are very well versed. I've had people come to me and say that they are not getting fed in church. My reply usually is, "How hungry are you?" Because when you are really hungry, anything sounds really good. :) 

 

I love listening to preaching and according to the Bible His Word will not return void. As long as the Word of God is getting preached and I'm letting God work in me, I will get something out of that message, no matter if a kid is preaching or a seasoned preacher.




#373187 So Where Was Baptism For Salvation In The Ot?

Posted by No Nicolaitans on 16 May 2014 - 08:29 PM

Galatians 3:11-12
11   But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith1.
12   And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
 
1The section of verse 11 that I highlighted is a quote from the Old Testament (Habakkuk 2:4)...and the opening statement of verse 12 makes it clear that the law had nothing to do with faith. Therefore, the Old Testament taught/teaches that justification came through faith alone without the works of the law.
 
Peter understood that those from the Old Testament couldn't keep the law...
 
Acts 15:10
Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?
 
Paul understood that those from the Old Testament couldn't keep the law...
 
Romans 9:31-33
31   But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32   Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
33   As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
 
Verse 33 is also a quote (actually a combined quote of two verses) from the Old Testament (Isaiah 8:14 and 28:16)...the Old Testament taught/teaches justification by faith alone.
 
Don't stumble at the stumblingstone.
 



#370590 What Advice Do You Have Or Same-Sex Couples

Posted by TheSword on 21 April 2014 - 02:43 PM

Well...first I don't think it pits one sin against another because, as SFIC said, they are not married according to God's definition of marriage. While legally it may be divorce, spiritually it is a repentence from fornication. As far as the children, I would think getting changing their environment to where they see that homosexuality is not a valid lifestyle would be a good thing. Hurt feelings are meaningless when compared to the gravity of eternity. I also agree that I would not consent to letting them join the church without a divorce, separation, and complete cessation of their relationship because they would be in open and unrepentent sin and would immediately be subject to church discipline in the same manner as the incestuous man in 1 Cor 5.

 

Their salvation must be addressed first and that necessarily involves the acknowledgment of sin and turning away from the old lifestyle of sin and self and pursue the will of God (i.e. repentence). If they refuse to divorce and get that part of their life right then they're effectively saying they don't care what God says they're going to live how they want to live and that is not a repentent heart and is moreso self-idolatry. The bottom-line on it is that it is an extremely public sin that would make massive waves on the health of the congregation.

 

I would never turn them away from attending the church as guests though. Everyone should have access to the gospel and biblical preaching. 




#345724 Be Still, And Know That I Am God

Posted by TheSword on 05 October 2013 - 11:44 AM

The Lord worked in a great and powerful way in my family this week. On Wednesday morning, my wife woke me up at 4:20 AM with the words that every expectant father both fears and rejoices in: "My water broke!" Now, this was a bit early, as she was a day shy of being full term and we had already been sent home from the hospital a couple days prior with a false alarm. She yelled this delightfully frightening phrase while in the shower trying to ease her back pain and woke me out of a dead sleep. I did my best Superman impression and got changed lightning fast. I helped her out of the shower after a contraction and she went to sit on the toilet. At 4:26 I called our friend down the street to come watch our 19 month old son while we went to the hospital. my wife yelled at me again saying that we weren't going to make it to the hospital. This boy was coming NOW! At this point, my calm and collected demeanor vanished like darkness after turning on a light and I instantly became the sitcom dad, frantically running back and forth trying to call 911. Unfortunately, the operator  could not understand my hysterical "THE BABY IS COMING!!!" Another contraction came and his head was now crowning. Now I'm really panicked...I threw the phone (forgot to hang up of course) and went into full panic mode. I just wasn't prepared for this! I never expected anything like this to happen us! Truth be told, my panic was more about having to deliver the baby myself and messing up in a big way. In another instant, it sank in that I was going to have to do this; there was just no way around it. I mentally zoned in (still terrified of course). I helped my wife to the floor and leaned her back. We delivered the baby right there on our bathroom floor. A contraction came and he popped out and his head popped out; all I could see below that was umbilical cord. Our first baby had the cord wrapped around his neck and that was quick an ordeal at the hospital so I was panicking just a little bit more now. I was able to simply push it aside and off his shoulder. Two extremely short contractions later I was holding my son and the majority of the panic and anxiety was gone. Just 8 short minutes after waking, we had gone through what felt like an entire day's trial. My wife then picks up the phone and calmly explains what had just happened to the 911 operator while I checked him out and wrapped him up for Mama. The EMS got there about 20 minutes later and we went to the hospital to get everything checked out.

 

The baby is fine and my wife is fine: no complications or serious ailments whatsoever. Of the million things that could have gone wrong with such a set of circumstances, not one of them did. God truly showed Himself and kept them both safe while guiding me to do what I needed to. Psalm 46 in particular came to mind after all the chaos had dissipated:

 

1God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.

Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;

Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.

God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.

The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.

The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

Come, behold the works of the Lord, what desolations he hath made in the earth.

He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.

11 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

 

God reminded me in this moment that there was no reason to panic in the first place. There was no reason to fear at all because He was still in control. With our last baby, my wife went full pre-eclamptic and we had to induce her and deliver early, he got stuck on the way out and had to be vacuumed, and he had the cord wrapped around his neck. We had been praying to have a safe, healthy, and normal pregnancy this time. I believe God answered that prayer, but not in the way we expected. He was telling us that it doesn't matter how the pregnancy goes or ends; He's still in control and holds us in His hands. "Calm down. I've got you my child" He says. God will certainly not give you more than you can handle, and will give you what you need to get through the trial. I had no false impressions on my lack of training and ability to deliver a baby (not to mention my weak stomach for blood and bodily fluids) and that's why I went into panic mode. However, when you realize that God the Almighty who created heaven and earth, who moves seas and mountains by His Word, and loves you so much He died for you is standing next to you; there's no reason to fear at all. The greatest assurance we can have on this earth is knowing that those who love and trust the Lord can depend on His provision and that regardless of the outcome, He is in control and works all things for our benefit (Rom 8:28).

 

How sweet to hold

A newbord baby

To feel the pride and joy he gives

But sweeter still

The calm assurance

This child can face uncertain days

Because He lives!

 

Because He lives

I can face tomorrow

Because He lives

All fear is gone

Because I know

He holds the future

And life is worthe the living

Just because He lives!

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#344992 Pastor Who Do You Think You Are?

Posted by Steve Schwenke on 28 September 2013 - 07:05 PM

I believe our cue comes from the Lord Jesus Christ:

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 

We are to SERVE and MINISTER to our congregation.  While we "rule" over them according to Heb. 13:17, it is not a dictatorial rule, it is the rule of a shepherd caring for his sheep.  A shepherd LEADS his sheep by example, and provides for them all along the way.

 

Other passages for consideration:

Ezek. 34 particularly v. 1-10 as an example of BAD shepherds

Jer. 23:1-4 as an example of bad shepherds

Matt. 9:36-38 for the need for shepherds

 

Acts 6:4 - the primary focus of the pastor's ministry - prayer and the word of God

Acts 20:17-35 - Paul's example in Ephesus

I Timothy 4:12 - Paul instructs Timothy to be a living example

 

The Pastor leads through the preaching and teaching of the word of God, and that preaching and teaching is confirmed by the Pastor's example in his daily life, as well as the Pastor's ministering to the needs of the flock.  He takes care of them.  A shepherd cannot drive the sheep like a cowboy drives cattle.  Sheep cannot handle that, and they end up either running away or dying.  They must be led - softly, gently, patiently.  They need to be cared for.  They need to be protected.

Too many pastors think of themselves primarily as an administrator of activities.  This is foreign to the Bible.

Too many pastors think of themselves as "the boss" who must be obeyed - or else.

 

Jesus Christ's observation on Israel being without a shepherd was made with COMPASSION (Mt. 9:36-38).

So, when a member is hurting, we should go pray with them and comfort them.

When a member is in the hospital, we should go visit them.

When a member is struggling with sin, we should go MINISTER to them, by patient counsel and prayer.  IN other words, we should try to HELP them get them victory, not HURT them by condemnation and pushing them out the door.

 

Church discipline is another matter altogether.

Hopefully you can see my point...

 

If I could summarize it with one word, I would say "SERVANT-LEADER"

(is that two words???)

 

In Christ,




#340315 Pastor’S Salary Cap

Posted by Kitagrl on 20 August 2013 - 04:28 PM

This topic is going to irritate me, since we basically live paycheck to paycheck AND I have to work a job to help make ends meet.

We have four kids and live in a parsonage and have our utilities paid, plus a salary, but the salary is definitely low enough to qualify for food stamps (although we are not on food stamps). We pay our own cell phone and most of our own gas, and bought our own cars, and pay for our own internet, etc. We also pay for Christian school.

If a church can pay a pastor enough to have a savings account and a retirement and live as comfortable as his people, then more power to that church. Amen. AMEN!!!!!

And to those who think pastors do not work to earn their salary....well I am going to leave the topic before I blow up on that one.

Honestly and frankly, what I wouldn't give some days for my husband and myself to be OUT of the ministry. Perks? Choose a church of your own choosing. Choose the ministries you are comfy with. And find a job that pays you enough to support your family that matches your talents and skills. But we are IN the ministry because God called us....and when people say things like "Pastors should work" or "Pastors are overpaid" it just makes me ANGRY.

I had my sister in law who makes six figures a year tell me it must be nice that I have a free house and utilities paid. REALLY? She'd really like to live in my parsonage from 1940 that needs tons of work that nobody can afford to do right now? She'd really like to have my bank account with little more than $100-$200 in it at any one given time?

Yeah. People who grudge pastors and their families for the sacrifices they make REALLY get me annoyed. And I'm cranky today so that makes it worse. hahaha.

I will say God provides for us and I'm thankful for it. But most people who criticize pastors would NEVER want to trade places with their family if they had to walk in their shoes and in their budget for a month. Nope.

(Oh, and yes, we generously give to our church as a good example...most likely we give a larger percentage of our income than anyone in the church, although we have never looked at the record books to find out.)


#331272 For Soulwinners Only

Posted by Moved_On on 01 June 2013 - 01:17 PM

If you’re a soulwinner, I’d like to give you an honest thank you.

 

When you knock on someone’s door or strike up a conversation with the intent to witness them, you never know what circumstances have been taking place in that person’s life leading up to that moment.

 

In the early 90s, a soulwinner knocked on my door. He witnessed to a visiting friend for 20 minutes before I came out to see what was going on (since I was cooking a meal). When I was done eating I went out to speak with him and he started on the “Romans Road” with me. I was a religious lost guy and was difficult for him in some ways. I couldn’t relate to this 19 year old “geeky Bible guy” in any way. But he was an obedient witness and stayed with me. At that time in his life, he was specifically praying for “fruit that remains.”

 

After 40 minutes or so, I bowed my head and asked the Lord Jesus Christ to save my soul.

 

I’ve been a Christian for 20 years now and I have a family that I’m raising for Christ. That soulwinner is far from a geek and is among the best friends I’ve ever had and he’s always a phone call away. The town I grew up in was a stronghold of Catholicism and I never had a real friend up to that point in my life. I look back now and can see how God was preparing me months and years ahead of that meeting with a soulwinner. I left out a lot of detail; I could go on and on.

 

I just wanted to let the soulwinners here know that I’m grateful for your labor in Christ. I’m grateful for all the doors you’ve had slammed in your face, grateful for your perseverance while facing opposition of all kinds, grateful that you’re doing something that takes character, grateful that you’re not on your boat fishing when it’s time to “go ye therefore.” I’m grateful more than you can really understand.

 

So thanks again.




#384517 Dispensations

Posted by No Nicolaitans on 29 August 2014 - 07:59 AM

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.  

But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; ["alluded to", not fully revealed, Heb 10:1a "a shadow"]

Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe  [I don't see any "works" here at all, no animal sacrifices or circumcision, etc.]

Romans 3:20-22a

 

But now 

 

But now 

 

But now

 

but now 

 

 

Okay...now show where works and/or the law WERE required for salvation.

 

Still waiting to see an answer to this...

 

You also neglected to highlight certain portions of the scriptures that you were highlighting...

 

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit,

and not in the oldness of the letter. [of the Law]  Romans 7:6

 

Now to him that is of power to establish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ,

according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment

of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:  Romans 16:25-26

 

I've pointed this out before, but I'll humbly say it again...

 

Nowhere, NOWHERE in scripture is obedience to the Old Testament law said to give salvation...the only promises given for obeying the law were physical promises...promises of blessings (for obedience to the law) in the land or promises of cursing them and driving them from the land (for disobedience to the law).

 

What was "the mystery" (in relation to this subject we're speaking of) that Paul spoke of? It wasn't salvation by grace through faith; it was the church...that's the mystery. That both Jew and Gentile would be heirs together and part of the same body...the church.

 

Ephesians 3:3-6
3   How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4   Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5   Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6   That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

 

Israel couldn't see that. They neglected their own scriptures and became self-righteous...

 

Part of Israel's duty was to be a witness for God to the world...

 

Isaiah 43:10-12

10   Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
11   I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
12   I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

 

...however, they neglected that duty, and "went about to establish their own righteousness" by stumbling over the law. Rather than being a witness for God, they became a nation of self-righteous isolationists. They stumbled over the intent of the law, thinking that keeping the law made them righteous; therefore, since the law was given to them, the rest of the world were heathens to be avoided.

 

God knew they couldn't keep the law, and that was the intent. The law was given to show them man's absolute incapacity to be self-righteous through works. They needed God's righteousness to be righteous, and that can only be imputed...not earned...and God's righteousness could only, can only, and will be only imputed by...his grace through faith.

 

Salvation has always been by grace through faith. What "work" did Adam perform to get God's forgiveness when he sinned? What work did Enoch do? David? Isaiah? Where does the Bible say that man had to do "works"...whether to earn salvation...or as others here put it...in addition to their faith? It's simply not there.

 

I sense a general discrediting of the Apostle Paul.  

 

The Les Feldick argument.

 

1 Corinthians 1:12-13
12   Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
13   Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

 

Paul didn't want undue exaltation being given to him. Beameup, let's be thankful to God for the writings of Paul; they were inspired by God, but let's only lift up the Lord Jesus Christ...he's the only one deserving of glory.




#377849 Altar Calls...

Posted by Steve Schwenke on 23 June 2014 - 05:17 PM

Just to clarify, I am not opposed to giving Altar Calls - I am opposed to the emotional appeals and other manipulative methods many have adopted.  The Holy Spirit is still alive and well, and does not need me to prompt people to respond to the Bible.  I just give them an opportunity to respond.




#377410 Brothers And Sisters

Posted by John81 on 19 June 2014 - 06:28 PM

Let us rejoice and be glad that we are born again in Christ, we are eternally family. We will forever live together with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, serving and worshipping Him as one.

 

I'm thankful for my brothers and sisters in Christ here who share their joy and sorrow, their questions and their understanding, their heart and their soul.




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