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  2. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    Daniel, I appreciate the kind words. Thank you for your observations. You are correct. The interpretations of the preterist, using the symbolic and historical method of interpreting the prophecy of the book of Revelation, the Olivet discourse in Matthew 24 and Luke 21, and 1 & 2 Thessalonians, are false and have nothing in common with history; nor the reality of future events. The interpretations of the preterist are just about as ridiculous as the interpretations of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Mauro is just one of the many false teachers in our day and age. Alan
  3. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban Rosie for cheating by breaking the rule of the game.
  4. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    I don't understand how anyone can be a Preterist. Preterism means "already happened", while historicism means "representing historical events." And these false teachers such as Mauro are teaching that the events in Revelation have already occurred, or to symbolize nearly all of it. I have heard some ridiculous theories trying to link Revelation up to middle ages events et al. What the two definitely have in common is being wrong on the face of it. Clearly, there has been no mark of the beast, no global control by Antichrist, none of the trumpet or bowl judgments, no two witnesses, no rebuilt temple, no 144,000, . . . one could go on at length. The only way that a person could accept any of the false systems of prophetic interpretation is by failing to believe that Revelation and the rest of scripture means what it says. Thanks for sharing your notes and observations, Alan. God Bless, Daniel
  5. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban NN Can't ban HC
  6. Whats for Supper...

    Yes she is still staying with two of our members. I understand she is probably fit to return home. We don't know why she fell, she was standing next to my wife who was booking everyone in and she just fell but my wife didn't actually see her fall. Possibly blood pressure? I did a vegetable soup last night, as we had a large lunch.
  7. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    Chapter 19 The Judgments Part 5 “Judgment NO.4” This lesson will be an overview on Larkin's Judgment NO. 4. The first chart with this judgment is found on page 146, called, “The Judgments,” and the second chart listing this judgment is found on page 154, in Larkin's book, “The Spirit World.” Observation by Alan In this overview, I have noticed that Larkin has steadily scripturally refuted false beliefs concerning the Trinity, Spirit Persons (Satan and his followers, demons, and the angels of God and their ministry), events (the afterlife: heaven and hell),and judgments that are connected with the Spirit World (he refuted the General Judgment and General Resurrection beliefs). In the process of this book, Larkin has scripturally refuted; Spiritualism, the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Seventh Day Adventists, Soul Sleep, Annihilation, the Universalist, and in this chapter the A-millennialist and/ or preterist. Chart The Dispensation of Judgments page 154 Concerning the chart and this lesson, Larkin places the Judgment of the Nations on circle number 3: Larkin states the following concerning the Judgment found in Matthew 25:31-46, “The account of this Judgment is given in Matt. 25:31-46. The description of this Judgment, and of the one given in Rev. 20:11-15 are combined by many, and taken to teach the doctrine of a general judgment. But when we compare them they differ so widely that it is evident that they do not describe the same event.”i Larkin mentions dramatic differences between the Matthew 25:31-46 judgment and the Revelation 20:11-15 Judgment. These differences plainly describe two different judgments. 1. There is no resurrection in the Matthew 25: 31-46 Judgment while in Revelation 20:11-15 there is a resurrection. 2. In Matthew 25:31-46 living nations are judged while in the Revelation 20:11-15 Judgment only “the dead” are mentioned as being judged. 3. There are no books opened in Matthew 25:31-46 while in Revelation 20:11-15 the “Book of Life” is opened. 4. In Matthew 25:31-46 there are three classes of people mentioned: Sheep, Goats and Brethren. In Revelation 20:11-15 there is only one class of people mentioned: the dead. 5. The Judgment as described in Matthew 25:31-46 takes place before the millennial reign of Christ, Revelation 20:4-6 while the Great White Throne of Judgment takes place after the millennial reign of Christ; Revelation 20:11-15 One other scriptural fact Larkin mentions is, “This comparison reveals the fact that one of these Judgments in “on the earth,” the other in the “heavens,” and that they are separated by 1000 years.”ii Note by Alan Larkin does not quote either Revelation 20:11-15 nor Matthew 25:31-46 in its entirety. For our convenience, I will write out Revelation 20:11-15 and part of Matthew 25:31-46, so the reader of this overview may see the difference. Revelation 20:11-15 “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which are written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” Matthew 25:31-34, “When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.” Matthew 25:40, “And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.” Important Observations by Larkin on Matthew 25:31-46 In his dissertation on the differences between the two passages, and his exposition of Matthew 25:31-46, Larkin, among other important points, states, “The scriptures teach that the Righteous are saved by “faith” and the Wicked are lost because they “reject Christ,” but in the Judgment scene the Sheep inherit a “kingdom” and the Goats are commanded to “depart” because of their treatment of certain Brethren. All the confusion is caused by trying to make a Judgment of “nations” mean a Judgment of “individuals.” The Sheep represent one class of Nations, and the Goats another class, while the Brethren represent the Jews (Christ's brethren).”iii Larkin quotes Joel 3: 1 & 2 to show that the Judgment of the Nations takes place in the Valley of Jehoshaphat. Note by Alan The prophecy of Joel 3:1 & 2 is literal: Judah and Jerusalem are literal cities, the nations are literal, the valley of Jehoshaphat is a literal valley, the restoration of Israel as a nation is literal, and God makes that claim the the “land” is “my land.” Joel 3:1 & 2, For, behold, in those days, and in that time, when I shall bring again the captivity of Judah and Jerusalem, I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they scattered the nations, and parted my land.” In order for the prophecy of Joel to be fulfilled Larkin clearly understands that the nation of Israel will be restored. Larkin states, “This prophecy clearly states that there is to be a “Judgment of Nations” on the earth in the “Valley of Jehoshaphat” at the time of the restoration of the Jews to their own land, and that the basis of Judgment is the treatment by the nations of Christ's brethren -The Jews.”iv Larkin scripturally proves the Great White Throne of Judgment as recorded in Revelation 20:11-15 and the Judgment of the Nations as recorded in Matthew 25:31-46 are two separate judgments. A-millennialist and Preterist Objections A brief summary of the A-millennial, and / or, preterist, interpretation of Matthew 25:31-46 as presented by Larkin, is as follows. 1) The passage in Joel 3:1 & 2 pertains to the church, is symbolic, figurative, or has already been fulfilled. 2) The nation of Israel has been cast out and has no further history as a nation. “And thus was fulfilled the prophetic “allegory” of Abraham's family history, according to which the bondwoman and her son, representing Israel after the flesh, were to be “cast out” (Gal. 4:30 ); which is the end of their history as a nation.”v 3) In his chapter, “What the N. T. Teachers as to the Future Mercy for the Jews,” Those prophecies did not, except for a few instances, look beyond the events of this present era of the Holy Spirit.”vi Mauro rejects Larkin's Matthew 25:31-46 interpretation becomes Larkin teaches that God will have mercy on the nation of Israel and restore the nation of Israel. 4) Matthew 25:31-46 is spiritual and symbolic. The Sheep nations are saved people, the Goat nations are lost people, the “brethren” are saints in the Church Age, and that it a description of the judgment is Revelation 20:11-15. In other words, a General Resurrection and a General Judgment. Larkin has scriptural proved that the two judgments are separate and that there is not a General Resurrection and a General Judgment. Note by Alan The following quote by Philip Mauro is full of presumptions, incorrect interpretations, and the twisting of scriptures. I only quote it to show the incorrect belief of an preterist, the ignorance of God's mercy towards Israel, and the disregard of the multitude of unfulfilled prophecies of the Old Testament prophets concerning the restoration of Israel. They believe Joel 3:1 & 2 is not a prophecy for the nation of Israel and is not literal. They believe that Joel 3:1 & 2 is symbolic and pertains to the church. A-millennialism, and / or Preterism, teaches that that all of the promises, and prophecies, concerning the nation of Israel is not literal, all are of a spiritual nature, and are given to the church. This belief is the doctrine of Replacement Theology. Mauro fully states the position of the A-millennialism, and / or Preterism, quite clearly. Mauro states, “Let us recall, moreover, that the covenant relations between God and “Israel after the flesh” were ended, even as had been foretold by their own prophets, beginning with Moses and Joshua (Deut. 4:26; 6:14, 15, 8:20; Josh. 23:15,16); the old covenant was dissolved and “ready to vanish away”; every vestige of it was shortly to be obliterated; and therefore, of necessity, all promises based upon that covenant, had there been any as yet fulfilled, fell to the ground. But beside all that, God has now brought clearly to light, as we have seen, what He had but dimly revealed in times past, that the name ISRAEL belongs properly to His new-covenant people. Therefore, it is not enough, for the settling of the question of God's future purposes for the Jews, that prophecies concerning Israel be found which apparently have not been unfulfilled; for we must needs conclude, as to all such prophecies – unless the contrary plainly appears – that they pertain to the true “Israel of God,” and that their fulfillment is in the realm of things spiritual and unseen.”vii So, according to Mauro, Joel 3:1 & 2, pertains to the church, is spiritual, may or may not have been fulfilled, and has nothing to the nation of Israel, or the land of Israel. And, according to Mauro, all of the promises and prophecies concerning the restoration of the nation of Israel, “… my brethren …” according to the Lord Jesus, was, “… obliterated; and therefore, of necessity, all promises based upon that covenant, had there been any as yet fulfilled, fell to the ground.” Conclusion Larkin is correct. The “Great White Throne,” of Revelation 20:11-15 and the “Judgment of the Nations,” found in Matthew 25:31-46, are two separate judgments at two separate times, in two separate locations, with different people being judged.
  8. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban No Ni just because.
  9. Whats for Supper...

    I fixed fried chicken for supper tonight, with macaroni and cheese, green beans, and salad. It was pretty tasty. I hope the lady who cut her head is doing alright, @Invicta.
  10. Hello

    Welcome.
  11. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban Rosie.
  12. Last week
  13. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    Brethren, Besides my books, I have a list of five different preterist forums, and or web sites, that I gather information from. Within the ranks of preterism, both William Hendriksen and Philip Mauro are considered preterist. Within those five preterist sites, and books on preterism, you will find out that that Preterism is a form of Historicism. At the beginning of Phillip Mauro's ministry, he was a dispensational in belief. But, he changed radically and became an ardent preterist. Two things: 1. Dave is correct. There are different dispensations in the scriptures and not a new doctrine. I want to thank Dave for bringing this to our attention. 2. Phillip Mauro openly departed from the faith. "They went out from us, but they were not of us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us." 1 John 2:19 Daniel, Thank you for your thoughts on prophecy. The next lesson will be uploaded soon. Alan
  14. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    Oh so he was around in the 3rd century when people were discussing dispensation, was he?????
  15. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    I have never read Hendriksen, but I know that baptist churches that follow Hendriksen teach that the Book of revelation is a series of seven parallel prophecies each covering the whole history of the church. That is a form of Historicism not preterism. I have read many of Philip Mauro's books. He says he was one of the early dispensationalists, and looked down on those who did not accept the new teaching. He then studied the scriptures more and rejected that theory. True his books are on the preterist site but I do not consider him a preterist as he said the antichrist was future. The Preterist site also have Mauro's books written while he was still a dispensationalist.
  16. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    There are some who believe that only the Gentiles will be judged at the (bema) seat of Jesus Christ, and that the Jews will be judged for their rewards at another time. From what I've read, it is composed of both Jews and also of gentiles. All believers of the Church, Jew and gentile, are judged before the (bema), the judgment seat of Christ. Paul, as a Jew, included himself (we) in bema seat of Christ. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. (2 Corinthians 5:10) During the Tribulation's first half, those Jews who respond to the ministry of the two witnesses and the 144,000 are led to safety in the desert at the Tribulation's mid point in Revelation chapter twelve. This is what I've gathered from the book of Revelation. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God. (Zechariah 13:9) So from I've read, the two thirds remnant of the Jews will repent and turn to the Christ (Zech. 12:10; 13:1) as their Lord and Savior as their spiritual eyes get opened -- while the rest will not. And that these Jews are included in the 144,000. The Antichrist ("false messiah") or the "foolish shepherd" (cf. Zech 11:15-17) will make a pact with the Jews (cf. Dan. 9:27) and break this treaty with Israel and require worship of him alone (Dan. 9:24-27; Matt. 24:15; 2 Thess. 2:3,4) as God. God Bless, Daniel
  17. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban NN for not giving me a reason
  18. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban Rosie.
  19. Soul winning class ideas

    The soulwinning club is pretty good, and is offered from the sword of the lord
  20. Looking for Likes

    Alan is really close - Keep it up!! Not sure when the week ends
  21. Looking for Likes

    Keep it up, I am almost in 1st place :)
  22. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    Chapter 19 The Judgments Part 4 This lesson will be an overview on Larkin's Judgment NO. 3. The chart if found on page 146, called, “The Judgments,” in Larkin's book, “The Spirit World.” The chart for this lesson is found in the middle of the chart, called, “Judgment No. 3 The Jews.”I have already uploaded the chart in this overview. The chart is located on page 3 of this overview and the date uploaded was January 13, 2018. Larkin has an important aspect of this judgment that is different from the other judgments that needs to be noticed. Instead of God the Father, or God the Son, judging the Jews in front of a throne, Larkin notes that it is the Antichrist judging the Jews on the earth. Larkin states, “This Judgment is FUTURE. While the Church is being judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ in the air, the Jews will be judged under Antichrist on the earth. The Jews are and “earthly” people; and as all the promises to them are “earthly,”it follows that their Judgment must be of an “earthly” character.”i Larkin stresses that their judgment is due to their rejection of: God the Father:1 Samuel 8:7 God the Son: Luke 23:18 God the Holy Spirit: Acts 7:51, 54-60 Larkin states, “For their sin they have been scattered among the nations until the “Times of the Gentiles” are fulfilled. When the “Times of the Gentiles” are about to end the Jews will be gathered back to the Holy Land “unconverted,” and caused to “pass under the rod. Ex 20:34-38. they will be cast into God's “Melting Pot” (Ez. 22:19-22), and pass through and experience spoken of by Jeremiah and Daniel as the “TIMES OF JACOB'S TROUBLE.” Jer. 30:4-7. Dan. 12:1. Christ calls it “The Great Tribulation,”and He and Zechariah the Prophet associate it with the “Return of the Lord.” Matt.24:21-31. Zech. 14:1-11.”ii Revelation 15:1, 5-8; 16:1-21 Larkin stresses that the result will be the conversion of the Jews as a nation. Zechariah 12:10, “And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.” Isaiah 66:8, “Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such a things? Shall the earth be make to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children.” i Larkin, Clarence The Spirit World, (Glenside, PA: Rev. Clarence Larkin Estate), 1921, page 152 iiLarkin, Clarence The Spirit World, (Glenside, PA: Rev. Clarence Larkin Estate), 1921, page 143
  23. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban NN for confusing me
  24. "Ban The Person Above You" Game

    Ban Rosie for making me think that what I thought I was thinking was what she was thinking was what she thought she should think.
  25. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    Hi Alan, Thank you for those links, because they were indeed excellent bible studies. I look forward to your next lesson on Larkin's commentaries, and your notes.
  26. Clarence Larkin - The Spirit World

    Daniel, Thank you for your thoughts on who the 24 elders represent as that is an interesting study. In this Overview of Larkin’s ‘The spirit World,’ Larkin does not comment on Revelation 4 But, since “crowns” are mentioned, I will be very brief in my answer in order not to get into many other subjects. I only want to give a few words to give you spiritual food for thought. Also, I had mentioned the 24 elders and the crowns, and the timing of the Judgment Seat of Christ is my lesson # 7, Revelation 19-22 Study. Here is the link to lesson 7: http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/23115-revelation-chapter-19-22-study/?page=7 The Apostle John was a prophet with visions that came directly from God. As a prophet, Hosea 12:10 was directly applicable to him and to the saints in the church as John was a prophet to the church. Hosea 12:10 states, “I have spoken by the prophets, and I have multiplied visions, and used similitudes, by the ministry of the prophets.” Here is a link to an excellent study on the word “signified” by Pastor Scott Markle. http://www.onlinebaptist.com/home/topic/24324-the-book-of-revelation-the-verb-signified/?page=1 As God, the Lord Jesus, is using John as a similitude; John is a similitude, or a sign, or a type, to the church. “The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.” Revelation 1:1 Very briefly stated, the word “signified” means a “sign.” Among other usages, God is using John as a “sign” to show us what God is going to do. In the case of the church, God is using John as a “sign,” or an, “example,” on how, and when, the coming of the Lord Jesus will take His church out of this world; what we call the “Rapture.” The coming of the Lord Jesus to take the church out of this world is the resurrection day for all of the living and dead saints when He comes. In Revelation 4:1 God is clearly using John as a “sign” to show the church, when and how, the Lord Jesus “calls us up” “with a trumpet, to meet Him in the air as Paul the Apostle clearly states in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 “After this I looked, and behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were a trumpet talking to me; which said Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.” Revelation 4:1 John is a sign, a type, of the church when the Lord Jesus calls us up with a trumpet. Right after the church age, John says, “hereafter.” The “hereafter” is a clear reference to the 7 churches in Revelation chapter 1-3. The 24 elders in Revelation 4 & 5 already have their crowns; so, they were awarded those crowns before the events that John saw. Concerning a direct reference to the 24 elders and who they represent, Revelation 5:9 states, “And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation.” In my thoughts, this is a direct reference to the Gentiles, and not to the Jews in the Old Testament age, throughout the world in the church age that are saved after the crucifixion of Christ. Therefore, in my thoughts, the 24 elders represent the saints in the church age throwing down their crowns won at the Judgment Seat of Christ at the feet of the Lord Jesus. Alan
  27. Just braggin' a little.

    Happy Anniversary! Congratulations! The Lord has blessed both of you. Thank you for the wonderful testimony of the work of God in both of your lives.
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