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  1. 6 likes
    Billy Graham, over the years, went his own way rather than sticking completely with scripture. He was warned by a number of men who saw the trail he was beginning to take. He chose to ignore the warnings of men like Dr. John R. Rice, Dr. Bob Jones I, Dr. Charles Woodbridge, etc (and I'm not lifting any of those men up - just naming a few names of well-known men who rebuked Graham early on). As early as 1957 Graham had modernists (120 of them) on his crusade committee. While there have been people saved via Graham's ministry, that does not excuse his disobedience - any more than some fruit in ministry excuses ANY sin on the part of ANYone. We can choose to believe or not believe whatever we want (although it is illogical to disbelieve that what someone claims to believe - and teaches it over the years - is what they actually believe). But the Bible tells us "out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." Graham's mouth spoke what was in his heart, and a good bit of it was heresy.
  2. 5 likes
    I went to a funeral of a man I've known since the 2nd grade. Before killing himself he too had health problems very similar to mine. I've seen him at the doctor's office from time to time. I have joint problems and arthritis, he did too but his was from toxic chemical exposure. I was told at the funeral the doctor told him it was going to get worse and worse. About 2 months ago I talked very seriously with him about going to church. He admitted to me he needed to clean himself up a bit, he was living with a woman and looked like he was in the Taliban. I have no idea how long it had been since his hair and beard has been trimmed. I agreed with him. He was a member of the big Southern Baptist Church here and I talked to him about at least going there. As far as I know I was the only one to talk to the man about not giving up. He told me right to my face he had dark times but was hanging in there. I told him there is always hope with God. That was two months ago. He never called to tell me he was falling apart. At the funeral not one of the four southern Baptist Pastors condemned any part of what he had done. One Pastor I've known for years said the Bible doesn't really mean a man shouldn't have long hair, that's just a culture thing. Another Pastor excused living together and talked about how much he loved his companion. Finally not one word about suicide being wrong or an offer to help anyone who might be feeling like killing themselves. They excused it too and said it's okay, he was in a lot of pain. All of this was said in the pulpit of the largest church in my county. I think so many excuses was made for his sins until finally killing himself was okay too. Well its not okay, if anyone reading this feels suicidal please let someone know. God will use a man or woman to help you. Sometimes we walk so near death we can see its shadow but God is with us and death does not get us. There is hope in Jesus Christ. Maybe you will be one of the rare people God gives a miracle. I've had very dark times myself and I can tell you God is there. I've heard it's only going to get worse from the doctors but God is still there and He helps. God will help you cope with the symptoms, and yes it might be your illness unto death but God will never leave you. Send me a pm or pm one of the ministers on this site or one of the mods, just let someone know. Please don't kill yourself, ask for help. Ken Smith
  3. 5 likes
    This morning at about 5:45 am local time, my daughter in North Carolina gave birth to a healthy, beautiful baby girl. Mother and baby are doing excellent. This is my wife and I's first grand baby, and we sure are pleased and proud. I just wanted to share our blessings with you, my friends.
  4. 5 likes
    My advice would be to: Realize that you are not door knocking to "get results" but that you are going in order to give the person an opportunity to hear the Gospel in obedience to the Great Commission. Plant and water whatever ground you find and in due time God will give the increase and build His church. Door knocking is hard and takes resolve because it is the most direct means of informing and calling each individual to make a decision, which most people want to put off and not think about for as long as possible, but the time of "winking" is over and all need to come to grips with the call. That is why we go. Acts 17:30-31 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31 because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.
  5. 5 likes
    Yesssssss...I wasssssss alssssssso ssssssssurprissssssssed.
  6. 5 likes
    The dust of your trail is your own with it's cloying, it's coating and cling. The warmth of your smile I might share for a while But the dust of your trail is your own The song in your heart is your own with it's words, it's rhythm and rhyme When you sing to the skies I might harmonize But the song in your heart is your own The scars on your soul are your own with their blisters, their burning and blame with tears in my eyes I might sympathize But the scars on your soul are your own The life that you live is your own with its jolting, it's journey and joy As best that I can I might lend a hand But the life that you live is your own. So look to the Lord, not to man For cleansing, for comfort, and care When friends don't come through What's that to you? Just look to the Lord, not to man SDN
  7. 5 likes
    My belief and understanding of the truth concerning the perfect, preservation of the word of God for us today in the form of the KJV 1611, is solid and unshakable. I have no need, nor any wish, to pursue a subject past a point that is both purposeful and profitable to myself and my ministry. Learning is necessary. Teaching is commanded. But intellectual exercise for it's own sake is both vain and shallow. So, why then did I interject myself into the thread in such a vehement and passionate manner? I am a preacher. That is what I do, it is who I am. I learn doctrine and truth in order to preach doctrine and truth, but learning is a means to an end. It is not the end. Preaching is the end. Therefor, when I become aware of wrong being perpetuated in Christ's name, it is the very essence of who I am, it is both the fire and the fuel that God has placed in me to stand up and roar "Thus sayeth the Lord". It's not always smooth, and it is rarely pretty, but it always comes from an honest place. My understanding of the core responsibilities of a man of God. I am committed, nay, even commissioned, to warn of deceit and false brethren. The OP of this thread revealed his intentions in his very first post, and that intention was to use subtlety and deceit to sow seeds of doubt and discord among the brethren regarding the very foundation upon which we stand, our Bible. Yes, he said many things, and some of them sounded true. The most dangerous lies, however, have the greatest amount of truth in them, and the greatest liars look the most like us. Pastor Markle, I truly regret that the direction that this thread has temporarily taken has caused you to grieve. You are much more studied in the deep things than I, and I do not pretend to be able to keep up with many of your thoughts, threads and studies. That does not make me unlearned and incapable, it just means I have a different focus. We each have to apply to His glory what he has provided us, and the more different we are, even while our hearts and purpose remain in one accord, the more effective we are for Him. It is my sincere hope that the dust has settled, distractions are past, and your study can continue on a peaceful and profitable path. God Bless, Dewayne
  8. 5 likes
    The context tells us who the 'sheep' are. The Lord Jesus (not some denominational bible teacher), said, "And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them from one another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats. " Matthew 25:32 The Lord Jesus will separate the nations; the nations who treated, 'the righteous' Jews, well and provided them with their material needs during the Tribulation Period will be the 'sheep' nations; and the nations who did not treat 'the righteous' Jews well (did not provide for their material needs), are the goat nations. The 'sheep' and the 'goats' are not individuals who are 'saved' or 'lost,' they are nations. Alan
  9. 5 likes
    WARNING: This thread is not an authorized thread. The views that are expressed herein cannot be accepted as authorized or reliable. In fact, as Fundamental Baptists all should separate themselves from the false doctrine of this thread, lest it lead you unto downfall and destruction.
  10. 5 likes
    I turned 50 this month, my first child is heading to the middle east on deployment this fall, my second child, the cop, is joining the Marines this summer, my third child and her husband are expecting our first grand baby in North Carolina in about 3 weeks and my 4th child graduates high school in May. It's all just too much ... so I went and bought a motorcycle today :). Not ready to strap to that rocking chair just yet. My wife and I had our first date about 27 years ago up here in Alaska, and it was going for a ride in the rain at night on my new motorcycle. When I called her today and said I found one and wanted to buy it, I couldn't even get the words fully out of my mouth before she squealed in excitement and said of course! How could you not love a woman like that?!? It's just an older Honda Gold Wing, but it's in great condition and I got it for $750.00, which is a steal. So I'm good to go. Me and Granny, still taking the road less traveled ...
  11. 5 likes
    How about "I. M. Noteer"?
  12. 5 likes
    Can I do another username called "N. Cog KneeToe" ?
  13. 5 likes
    Why does this feel like it's heading into an argument on semantics? For all intents and purposes, salvation and regeneration occur simultaneously. Did Christ berate the disciples for their unbelief? Yes. But define the unbelief. Was it merely unbelief in the resurrection? We know that they (or at least Peter, before) believed that He was the son of God. A couple of His disciples had left John's service to follow Him after being told that He was the one that would take away sins. Until Christ's death occurred, the old covenant was still in effect - a covenant that did not even require understanding of the future resurrection in order to effect salvation. We know men were saved before Christ's death - perhaps in a sense of being reserved unto His death - and we know that the Holy Spirit was active in some sense before Pentecost. It honestly seems like mere disputings about words to try to figure out the exact time/understanding at which the disciples (who existed at the [rather confusing] time when one covenant was being replaced by another) were saved and/or regenerated.
  14. 4 likes
    Good evening, I am a graduate of Golden State Baptist College in Northern California. Currently I am a member of a medium-sized IFB church here in Northern California, serving in the education department as a teacher for the Christian school. Looking forward to getting involved in some of the discussions here! Johnny.
  15. 4 likes
    This morning in my devotional reading I learned from Zechariah 8:5 that the Lord our God is comfortable with children engaging in play time. (Note: I have often wondered whether it is just a human viewpoint, a cultural viewpoint, or a naturally-created viewpoint that children "need to have play time.") Zechariah 8:5 -- "And the streets of the city shall be full of boys and girls playing in the streets thereof." (Note: This verse is presented as one of the blessings upon Israel when the Lord God restores them. Thus it would appear that this is something of which the Lord our God approves as a positive.) Also, (sarcasm warning) it appears that the Lord God approves of children playing in the street, so then all those parents who forbid it . . . .
  16. 4 likes
    Great question! I believe part of the answer is found in the words “what God hath joined together”. It is quite clear that this joining with Hagar was not ok with God but allowed. On the other hand, God did not allow for Sarah to be known by another and acted to stop it. Sarah enlisted Abraham in her plot for children by referring to ancient customs clearly practiced through most of the Old Testament ie. Jacob and his four wives. Historically the wealthy were always able to have more wives because they had the where withal to provide for their families (think David and Solomon here). The answer to the question asking if this were divorce is no. Divorce specifically called for a writing of a bill of divorcement (charges brought against) (Deut. 24:1-4) and was to be issued by the spouse and not the spouses other wife and involved no less than sixty days . It does not seem Abraham had any fault with Hagar for it grieved him to send them away. Secondly if there were sexual impropriety then the man could not bring an accusation against the woman because he would impugn the woman’s character making it impossible to divorce her. (Deut. 22:13-21) Neither of these were evident indicating Hagar was a bondmaid and not a wife or that as a bondmaid she could be sent away with nothing but Abraham decided to show kindness and let her take her son with her. (Ex. 21:11) The story is likely included not just as a historical account but as Galatians suggests it is a contrast between using our own efforts to accomplish Gods will and waiting for God to fulfill his promises in His time. The flesh and the impulses of the flesh are available at the same time the opportunity to wait for the promise. But if you are going to trust God then you must say no to the contrivances of the flesh. You cannot have the fruit of the flesh and live by faith at the same time. I say again it was not a divorce, do we cling to the fruit of the flesh or the fruit of the Spirit. The allegory is clear.
  17. 4 likes
    MC, My answer is speculation, so take it as such. When I read the "wife" part, I read it as that was something Sarai (Sarah) was doing...not what God was doing. SHE gave Hagar to be Abram's wife. Yes, the Holy Ghost inspired Moses to include the account in scripture, but that doesn't mean the action was God's action or choosing. As I read over the account, when God and the angel of the LORD are personally speaking, I don't see God or the angel of the LORD refer to Hagar as Abram's wife. Rather, they refer to her as "Sarai's maid" and "bondwoman"...but never as Abram's wife. In fact, when Hagar fled in Genesis 16, the angel of the LORD told her to return to...her mistress (Sarai)...he didn't say to return to her husband (Abram). She was still viewed as Sarai's maid/bondwoman by God. As always, I could be wrong...that's how I see it though.
  18. 4 likes
    My view of it is this... After all that transpired in regard to Abraham, Sarah, Hagar, Ishmael, and including the birth of Isaac...we find this in Genesis 21:12 (which is a verse already pointed out)... Genesis 21:12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called. Four things I notice in that one verse... It's God talking. God referred to Hagar as "thy bondwoman" instead of "thy wife". God told Abraham to do what Sarah said; which was, to cast Hagar and Ishmael out. Doing so would remove a "human hindrance and interference" to God's will and plan; which was, that through Isaac "shall thy seed be called"...not through Ishmael. God was in agreement with casting them out; therefore, there was no wrong done on Abraham's part.
  19. 4 likes
    Brethren, In an, "National Day of Prayer speech," President Donald Trump signed an Executive Order that forces the Federal Government, specifically the IRS, to not target Christians, churches, and pastors for the following of their religious beliefs. This Executive Order will, among other things, cancel the Johnson Amendment that prohibited pastors, from their pulpit, by the threat of revoking their tax exempt status, from making political comments or getting involved in social issues. Quite frankly I believe that this Executive Order will stop a lot of the political, social, and special rights groups from verbally, and legally, attacking pastors, Christians and churches. http://video.foxnews.com/v/5421767813001/?#sp=show-clips President Trump said, "No American should be forced to choose between the dictates of the Federal Government and the tenets of their faith." Also, in the beginning of his speech, President Trump partially quoted James 1:17 when he said, freedom "... is a gift of God." throughout the speech President Trump reminded the public that our founding fathers (he quoted Thomas Jefferson at one point), enshrined religious freedom as the first (and main), freedom in our great land of religious faith. President Trump is trying to reverse the evil, unjust, un-democratic, un-constitutional, attack on our religious freedom from the Federal Government, special rights groups, the homosexual crowd, the socialist and communist leaning men and women in power in our country, and give us back our Constitutional rights. And, President Trump is reversing the trend of revising the early American religious, Christian, history of our country. I think with signing this Executive Order that President Trump is helping America being a better country again. I think that President's Trump is answered prayer from God above in starting to heal our land from the destructive actions of Clinton, Obama, and the militant atheists and homosexual crowd. "If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chronicles 7:14 May God above bless all of you. Alan
  20. 4 likes
    This thread is dedicated to the official presentation of information gathered on Pastor Scott Markle, having spent the last 5 days with him, I have concluded the following things about him: (Disclaimer:The following information may or may not be whole, complete, and may or may not be stretched for entertainment value) 1. Pastor Markle hates rainbows, it's true, the man has a completely unfounded hatred of rainbows, don't ask me how, I just know. 2. Pastor Markle is a much better magnet salesman than he is a book salesman 3.Pastor Markle does in fact talk in his sleep 4. Pastor Markle may or may not have a dorky pair of sports glasses that he wears when he gets beat playing basketball...hockey is another story..(The glasses may or may not still be dorky) 5.Pastor Markle is not as patient in person as he potrays himself on the onlinebaptist forums. 6. Pastor MArkel hatess wehn thnigs are nto orderyl 7.Pastor Markle uses absolutely zero sarcasm. 8. His wife is extremely patient and long suffering 9. If asking him a question, be prepared for a 4 pt outlined response followed by 10 other expositions on other topics and subjects before getting the answer to your original question. But in all seriousness Pastor Scott Markle is a good man and I am privileged to call him a friend.
  21. 4 likes
    Yesterday, I shared the gospel with someone with whom I've befriended in Britain. Please pray for him if the thought crosses your mind. He has gotten caught up in the new age mindset of... "we're all one small part of the greater universe"..."all roads lead to the same place"..."we all have good in us, and it's what we do with that good that matters"...etc.
  22. 4 likes
    That was a tongue in cheek comment primarily thrown into the thread as humor. welcome back.
  23. 4 likes
    I have been away for a while, so forgive me for popping in abruptly. But I felt the need to make a correction here; "allah" is NOT God. He is the "god" of islam. Ask any muslim and they will tell you that "allah has no son". The One true God... the God of Abraham ,Isaac, and Jacob, the God who created all things, the Alpha and Omega, the omnipotent and omniscient God the Father DOES INDEED have a Son... His only BEGOTTEN Son, Christ Jesus. Therefore the "god" they call "allah" is not at all the same God I worship. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Sorry for disrupting your thread, brother Alan. I am just now reading and catching up some... an excellent thread on the topic. I must also say that we knew where the US was headed under the past democrat administration, and it was NOT in the direction of Christian rights and freedoms. While President Trump is not a perfect man (none are), he DOES stand for the constitution, Christian freedoms, he has avowed to be a friend to Israel, and it could very well be that the Lord has given us a reprieve to give the gospel to the lost in these last days. Had the left won, there is little doubt in my mind that we would have seen even MORE loss of freedoms, and MORE trampling of the constitution than we already have. Censorship from the left is on the rise... I can attest to being banned for 24 hours on facebook for sharing a Bible verse (Isaiah 5:20, ironically). Other sisters in Christ have ALSO been given bans for sharing either sermon videos or scripture as well. The media (including social media) in the US are predominantly owned by the left. They want to shut free speech down and control the narrative in the hopes that they will again win the presidency in 2020. The President is correct in calling the media out for their bias and complete censorship of all things conservative as well as Christian. For that reason I pray in thankfulness to the Lord that He has given us this reprieve, however short it may end up being, to share the gospel freely in public. I also pray for our president every day, as scripture tells us to: 1 Tim. 2:1-4 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. Maranatha!
  24. 4 likes
    Indeed, this is the reason that I suggested that we must "slow down" and begin with the BIBLICAL definition for the doctrine of preservation. It really does not matter what Brother Markle's definition might be. It really does not matter what Brother Alan's definition might be. It really does not matter what Brother Tyndale's definition might be. It really does not matter what any other person's definition might be. On the other hand, it MOST CERTAINLY matters what the BIBLICAL definition actually is. Once that foundational premise (doctrine) is settled, THEN (and ONLY then) we are in a position to discuss applications unto various texts, textual families, or translations. 1. What did the Lord our God promise to preserve? 2. For how long did the Lord our God promise to preserve it? 3. Where did the Lord our God promise to preserve it? 4. Unto what extent did the Lord our God promise to preserve it?
  25. 4 likes
    Excuse me, but this is the Authoritative Pastor Scott Markle thread for all English speaking people. The views expressed here carry full authority and the FACTS about you represented here far outweigh the contrary OPINIONS you may have about yourself. Just because you claim this thread is not authoritative does not mean that it is not in fact authoritative, not only is it authoritative, but I believe it is also the Preserved Pastor Scott Markle Information thread as well, and as such it will be preserved by the power of the world wide web through the stewardship of Onlinebaptist.com. Pastor Scott Markle wants us to be left adrift without any authoritative page on his nature and character so that we are left only to the fanciful opinions and false caricatures, and false image of himself that he wants to present to us. Brethren, please take heed that this man seeks to lead you astray into a world of no absolutes, a world where all is grey and fuzzy.Do not fall for it! "a fool answereth a matter before he heareth it"
  26. 4 likes
    If I understand the purpose of this thread, other subjects may be brought up? If not, I apologize. I've been teaching the Life of Christ in the adult Sunday School class at church, and it has come out very apparent to us lately that Christ built the church on Family. What???? John the Baptist was Jesus' cousin Peter and Andrew - brothers James and John - brothers Judas (not Iscariot) and James the Less - brothers The above listed Judas and James also possible cousins of Jesus. It is indicated that the 2nd Mary,the wife of Alphaeus (aka Clopas or Cleopas), was possibly also sister to Mary, mother of Jesus. Indicated. Not proven.) James, elder in Jerusalem in Acts, was Jesus' brother. John Mark was Barnabas' nephew. How many times does it say in scripture that a man got saved "and his house"? I believe this country was built on godly churches, godly churches are built on godly families, godly families are built on godly marriages and godly marriages start with godly men. This, I believe, echo's God's plan when founding Israel. Abraham and his half-sister, who have a son that marries a cousin, they have a son who marries two cousins that are sisters ... Family. Anyhow, it has been a revelation...
  27. 4 likes
    Oh, I see--sorry! Had no idea about that option. Maybe I'd use it if I owed another forum member money.
  28. 3 likes
    Actually, there's a third option! Protestants, by definition, are those denominations that emerged from the Roman Catholic Church during the Protestant Reformation. Although you may find a couple baptistic groups that trace their origins to the Reformation, there were baptistic groups in existence previous to the Reformation - all through the medieval period!. Most IF Baptists trace their lineage to these free congregations, and thus do not consider themselves to be protestant.
  29. 3 likes
    Kids aren't automatons. And each one is different in temperament and personality. Know your children well. And win their hearts. As you train them - which includes both positive reinforcement as well as negative reinforcement - win their hearts. That will bring compliance for the RIGHT reason - great love for their father - versus the wrong reason - trembling in fear of punishment by their father. God tells fathers not to provoke their children to anger - because provoking to anger breeds rebellion.
  30. 3 likes
    You can't fix stupid. Not even with duct tape.
  31. 3 likes
    Thanks Alan. Chicktracts are how I began gospel tracting, which made it easy, and fun. I currently have a box full of the "Fellowship Tract League" tracts so I take some with me wherever I go. I've gotten a lot of them out but I still freeze up sometimes so thanks for the encouragement!
  32. 3 likes
    Jake, Welcome! Looking forward to some fine fellowship and discussions. Very glad to hear that you are KJV and are involved in passing out tracts. I have a verse that helps me as I go out tracting and hopefully it will be an encouragement to you in tracting as well, "In the morning sow thy seed, and in the evening withhold not thine hand: for thou knowest not whether shall prosper, either this or that, or whether they both shall be alike good." Ecclesiastes 11:6 As we pass out tracts, we cannot know most of the time how God is working in the hearts of those who receive it. As a personal testimony, it was through a soul winner giving me a Chick tract (and reading a Gideon Bible in the military), that caused me to trust in Christ. So, please do not get discouraged. Alan
  33. 3 likes
    Well I filled out my profile for the most part so that's all I really have to say... shortly put ive been a Christian for going on 5 years now, im a KJV bible believer, and I found out about the "Bible version issue" about a year after I was saved, which strengthened my faith. So ive been reading the KJV for only 4 years approx. I also go tracting as much as I can, but its gets discouraging as I go alone and can't seem to find a brother who is willing to go with me..
  34. 3 likes
    It is also worthy of consideration that the whole creation was fairly new unto Adam and Eve. Therefore, there was no real pattern of "normal," but rather a regular experience of new things.
  35. 3 likes
    Enjoyed the brief, but concise, article on how we are to watch for the coming of Christ. Dr. Morris stated, "Again and again He urged us to watch and be ready for His return. He did not tell us to watch for the Antichrist or the revival of Rome’s empire or a great apostasy or a great revival or a world government or anything else—just for Him! Note some of His commands to do this (in addition to the two in our text): There is not one sign the church age saint is to look for in relationship to the coming of Christ for the church. The Church age saint is not concerned about who the anti-Christ is, where he is coming from, and any other detail from the opening of the seven seals, Revelation 6:1, to the battle of Armageddon, Revelation 19:11-22 Who the individual is that is riding the white horse in Revelation 6:1 when the first seal is opened is of absolutely no concern to the church age saint. Whether the 'great sword,' as revealed in the opening of the second seal in Revelation 6:4 is an M-16 pointed at me by the army of the anti-Christ, or a nuclear weapon detonating on the shores of America, is of absolutely no concern to me; nor to any spiritually minded saint. We will not be here. The famine prophesied on the face of the entire earth as prophesied in the opening of the third seal in Revelation 6:5 is of no concern for me; nor for any other spiritually minded saint. I personally do not have one item of food hidden in a cellar and I do not have one weapon hidden in a bunker in my back yard; neither do I care as I will not need one when the events of Revelation 6:5 come to pass. When the extreme financial crises arises due to the opening of the third seal is opened as prophesied in Revelation 6:6 I have zero concern, nor do I have silver and gold hidden to prepare for it. Why? I am not waiting for the financial crises; I am waiting for Jesus. I am not preparing for the wrath of God on the financial markets of the world. When the fourth seal is opened in Revelation 6:7 & 8, and one fourth of population of the world is killed, I have not one concern. Death and Hell is the punishment, judgment, and the wrath of Almighty God on the population of this earth. God is going to punish this earth for the wickedness of their sins, the defilement of their bodies, the filthiness in the churches, and the blasphemous doctrines in the denominations of the worlds religions. If the killing of one fourth of the population is not the wrath of God; I am not sure what is. When the fifth seal is opened as prophesied in Revelation 6:9 and the souls of the saints who were killed in the Tribulation Period (the first half of the Tribulation period according to some of the brethren), there will not be one church age saint. When the sixth seal is opened as prophesied in Revelation 6:12-16 the world will see the signs in the heaven being fulfilled as written by the Old Testament prophets given to the Jews. The church age saint is not to look for signs. So, the sixth seal absolutely cannot apply to any church age saint. In the last part of the opening of the the sixth seal is opened we read these terrifying words, "... Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Revelation 6:16 & 17 The opening of the six seals deal with the wrath of God on the entire earth. None of the events in the opening of the seven seals is applicable to any saint in the Church age. The church age saint is not told by one Old Testament prophet, nor by one line of warning in the New Testament by the Lord Jesus, nor any of the apostles, to look for any signs, nor to look for any of the events due to the opening of the seals in Revelation 6 The church age saint is to be waiting for the Lord Jesus and while we are waiting we are to be working; working in the church, winning souls, teaching the saved, warning the lost and be about our Masters business. The church age saint should be more concerned about the Judgment Seat of Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:10, then the Great white Throne of Judgment, Revelation 20:11-15 The Blessed Hope is the coming of Christ for us in the air; Titus 2;13 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-15 There is not one blessed hope for the church age saint from Revelation 6:1-19:11 Good article. Alan
  36. 3 likes
    "And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, God your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth." Revelation 16:1 In Revelation 16:1, the start of the judgment of the vials clearly state that the vials pour out the wrath of God; that does not preclude that the seals do not also contain the wrath of God on the earth. Nor, is Revelation 16:1 an absolute delineation of the wrath of God on the earth. Just because the word 'wrath' occurs at this juncture does not preclude 'wrath' taking place before this juncture. As I stated before, a minute (detailed), study of the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets will show that at the start of the 7 year Tribulation period the wrath, vengeance, punishment, and destruction of the earth commences. This a study of great magnitude, as the study in of the prophecies of the Old Testament prophecies concerning the Millennium in Revelation 20:4-7 was of great magnitude. As of the foreseeable future, I do not have the time available to go through the entire study. The detailed study on Revelation 20:4-6 and the Old Testament prophecies, took me from June 30, 2016 to March 9, 2017, to complete. A study on Revelation chapter 6:1-19:21 would take over a year or so. For everybody's information. I am have completed a study on Revelation 1:1 to 13:18, in Chinese, at our church here on Taiwan. All of the material is in Chinese; not in English. Once I finish the study I will translate it into English. So, a through study at this time is not possible. Brethren, The belief of a mid-tribulation rapture, or post tribulation rapture, is not a traditional IFB belief and is of recent occurrence by individuals (Pastor Steven Anderson and Brother Kent Hovind are two well-known individuals), in the IFB churches. IFB's are generally known for the belief of a pre-tribulation rapture of the church. Your statement misconstrues the early, and most of the current, IFB pastors, missionaries, Bible teachers, and evangelists. I am of the persuasion that Revelation 16:1 is taken out of context from the rest of the judgments of the 7 Year Tribulation Period as prophesied by the prophets, in order to prove one point; a mid-tribulation rapture of the church. The proponents of this argument forget the reasons for the 7 Year Tribulation Period; the judgment of God, the punishment of God, and the keeping of the church age saints from the judgment, wrath, and punishment of God on the inhabitants of the earth. The proponents of this theory are also forgetting that the 7 year Tribulation Period is the time of "Jacob's Trouble,' Jeremiah 30:1-9, in order to restore the nation of Israel. The 7 Year Tribulation Period has nothing to do with the church. I am of the persuasion that Revelation 16:1 is taken out of context from the rest of the judgments of the 7 Year Tribulation Period (the seven seals), due to the unbelief that the coming of Christ occurs just before the 7 Year Tribulation Period commences. I am confident that if the brethren personally re-studied the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets, they will discover for themselves, that the entire 7 Year Tribulation Period is a time of the wrath, judgment, vengeance, punishment on the face of the earth by Almighty God, the restoration of the nation of Israel, and the church age saints have nothing to do with this entire episode of human history. Alan
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    The entire 7 years of the Tribulation period, starting from the first seal when the Anti-Christ conquers the earth, is a time of the wrath of God upon the face of the entire earth. Revelation 6:3 & 4 continues the conquering of the entire earth by military methods by stating,"And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword." In the Bible, starting from the book of Job, and continuing to the book of Revelation, God uses the "sword" to bring His WRATH upon men to punish men, and wrack the vengeance and judgment of God on the earth. In the Tribulation period, the WRATH of God is on the entire earth and not just in a specific country, continent, or people group. Job said, "Be ye afraid of the sword: for wrath bringeth the punishments of the sword, that ye may know there is a judgment." Job 19:29 Maybe (as I stated a long time back), in a different thread, by doing a study of the prophecies of the Old Testament prophets, I will bring out in minute detail that from Revelation 6:1-19:21, starting from the first seal and continuing throughout the seven seals, the entire 7 years of the Tribulation Period, is a time of the wrath, vengeance, judgment, and punishment of God upon the entire world. Alan
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    To God be the glory.. Dear God please continue to bless and guide and direct our President Trump and protect him as well
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    This is not as simple as it seems at first. Genesis 16 1 Now Sarai Abram's wife bare him no children: and she had an handmaid, an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar. 2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai. 3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife. 4 And he went in unto Hagar, and she conceived: and when she saw that she had conceived, her mistress was despised in her eyes. 5 And Sarai said unto Abram, My wrong be upon thee: I have given my maid into thy bosom; and when she saw that she had conceived, I was despised in her eyes: the LORD judge between me and thee. 6 But Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thy hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face You will note here that the child would be considered Sarah's child, and that Hagar is still after this time called Sarah's maid. In their culture (and this is history now, not Bible) the maids in the household were fair game for "increasing the family". Note this is recorded in the Bible, but not condoned. In this passage we see an indicator of this. It was certainly the idea behind Sarah's suggestion. Now I think (and this is my thoughts on the passage) that Abraham and Sarah did not consider Hagar a wife in any way, but God did, hence the use of the term "wife" in vs 3. I think this is God's commentary on the situation. The whole event was sinful, but it was not the fault of Hagar nor Ishmael, therefore the Lord protected them. Does that make sense?
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    Please give the benefit of doubt here. They are most likely saying that they are keeping the lost low so that you may buy for yourself to give away. "Our Booklets are desinged to give away" they say.... not for them to give away to you. They say as much as 50% off (at quantities) so that makes less than a dollar each. You can't print much these days for less. I'm a little sensitive about this because I know for a fact that some ministries price and sell items below their cost (to produce them) just to get the info out there, yet some people still think they should give the stuff away for free. I know a ministry that produces a book for new believers and sells it for cost. Why? The author wants people to have and read the book. Yet, people often complain when it is excluded from site wide sales. So please don't be bugged.... give them the benefit of the doubt unless facts prove otherwise... (I don't know them personally... I'm just sayin'....)
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    Brother McWhorter, I have every intention of responding with explanation; however, I am presently involved in a responsibility that is consuming a great deal of my time. Thus I request some patience from you, and even from all. I know that I have "stirred the pot" a little, and I do NOT intend to just leave it that way. I do NOT at all view your comments as an attack. I have (knowingly) presented some thoughts that are not the common expression. As such, I expected questions to be posed. In addition, I most CERTAINLY know that you love and respect me. Our "forum friendship" is NOT AT ALL in jeopardy. Brother Alan, I thank you for your trust. I pray that I will not harm it in any manner, although I may present some thoughts that are not exactly common on this matter.
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    Yes, his real name is Akhmed Muhammed Hussein Al Orval, but you can call him "Al"
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    If I may request that we ALL "slow-down" for a moment, that we might FIRST consider the Biblical definition for the doctrine of preservation. Such IS the foundational premise for this entire discussion. Therefore, what PRECISELY is that Biblical definition; and what Biblical evidence can be provided for that definition? (Note: This question is strictly concerning the definition for the doctrine of preservation, and NOT AT ALL concerning the application of that definition unto any given text or translation.)
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    I agree so vehemently that I have not read any of the comments in this thread and I would advise that no one else read any of the comments in this thread, including this one. ( And by the way, I bought several of his books and paid the postage too, which is very fierce to here.) (Oooppsssss - it might seem from that last comment that I may have read some of the other posts in this thread, but can I say that my comment about paying for books was entirely incidental to any comments by Happy or Jordan - not that I know what their comments may have been because I haven't read ...... oh........ maybe I should just stop digging this hole.......
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    Yep. I have experienced this point on the forum and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Yet it makes for a long process when one is eagerly (and genuinely) awaiting the concluding answer......... fun times, No hurry....
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    Was it you that borrowed the money from me?
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    In a speech at the 2017 NRA (National Rifle Association), convention President Trump not only defended the Constitutional (the Second Amendment), right for us to 'bear arms.' He said, "The eight year assault on your Second Amendment freedoms has come to a crashing end." http://video.foxnews.com/v/5415343978001/?#sp=show-clips President Trump is making America great again by undoing the destructive Obama, Clinton, and other democratic political leaders, regulations that have been put in force in order to destroy the Constitution of the United States of America and take away our constitutional right to 'bear arms.'
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    NP friend, I have enjoyed the conversation and you can't find a better Christian example than NN to discuss topics with.
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    That is then even more egregious. Because if he is preaching salvation and then lying about other things he supposedly believes, then logically folks who are lost will reject salvation because Graham is a liar about everything else he believes. Your logic falls apart simply on the basis that we have no choice but to believe what a person says when they assert their belief in something. You do not know his mind, so you cannot definitively state that he doesn't believe what he says he believes. It is circular reasoning at best which has no logically sound outcome.
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    Frost: "Why is Islam the fastest growing religion in the world?" Graham: "The tremendous discipline that they have in Islam in the sense that there's a judgment if you do wrong, and there's a tremendous hope that people have that you are Islamic. Suppose you die on the battlefield fighting for Islam, the promises they give you for the first thousand years would make any young man say, 'Well, I think that's what I'd like to have.' They have so many things. And I think Islam is misunderstood too, because Mohammed had a great respect for Jesus, and he called Jesus the greatest of the prophets except himself. And I think that we're closer to Islam than we really think we are." -Billy Graham, Interview with David Frost, "Talking with David Frost: Reverend Billy Graham," David Paradine Television, Feb 18, 1997