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Standing Firm In Christ

*Independent Fundamental Baptist
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Standing Firm In Christ last won the day on May 4 2016

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About Standing Firm In Christ

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    Bold Proclaimer
  • Birthday September 9

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    Reading the Word of God, Christians Based Movies, Bluegrass Gospel Music
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    Born in Africa, reborn in prison, dwell in Mississippi, live in Christ

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  1. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    It would be nice if people would order my book and give an honest review of it, since this is the Book Review section. Oh... I see someone moved it out of the Book Reviews section and into the Lounge.
  2. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    We could indeed visit the "law of first mention"... It never fails, when teaching that tithe is a matter of the Law, someone is sure to argue it is not. (not saying anyone in this discussion said it was not Law) Some will say that Abram’s tithe to Melchizedek was BEFORE the Law, and then say that Abram’s tithe is the first mention of tithes in the Bible, and therefore, "law of first mention" should be employed. If we go with the "law of first mention... The first mentioned tithe, was not from monetary wages. Nor was it from the benefits of the one who tithed. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, it should not come from monetary wages or benefits. The first mentioned instance of tithing reveals that Abram tithed spoils of war… spoils that did not belong to him. He had promised God that he would not take any of the spoils as his own property. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, those who tithe should promise God that they will give the rest of what they tithe from away. Law of first mention? In first mention of tithes, Abram was 79 years old when he tithed to Melchizedek. Therefore, if law of first mention should apply, man should not tithe until he has reached the age of 79 as Abram was. Law of first mention? Abram did not tithe in the town he lived in. He tithed in the land of Canaan. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, tithes need to taken to the land of Canaan and given there. Law of first mention? The tithe Abram gave to Melchizedek was from stolen items Abram recovered from kings he had killed in battle. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, the tithe should come from stolen items recovered after killing people… specifically, kings. Law of first mention? Abram tithed in an open valley, not in a wooden or brick building called a church. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, tithes should be given in a valley… not in a church building. Law of first mention? Abram was childless when he tithed to Melchizedek. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, those who tithe should not have any children prior to tithing. Law of first mention? After Abram tithed, he gave the remainder of the items which he tithed from to a king of Sodom. Abram kept nothing of that which he tithed from for himself or for his family. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, the rest of that which is tithed from should be given to a king of Sodom. The one tithing should use nothing of that which he tithes from on himself or his family. Law of first mention? It was a man that tithed in the first mention of tithes. Therefore, if law of first mention applies, only men should tithe. Law of first mention probably shouldn't apply in the case of tithing. LoL
  3. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    The question is, can you not see the irony in your argument? Your bolded statement "Don't you non-tither's see the absurdity of not tithing and giving to missions?," is actually accusing us of being silly. After all, the word "absurdity means "silliness." Maybe it is best for both tither, nor non-tither to cease using adjectives that demean
  4. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    Exactly! And to show how much the church preaches tithing as a Law (even though they point to Melchizedek) one only notice how they run to the Law to prove it must be done. ...then there's the condescending remarks made about non-tither's that also shows that tithing is made a Law. for the Church
  5. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    It really doesn't matter what people in other lands did, or do for buying and selling, wages, etc, etc.. God's word is supposed to be the Christian's final authority in all matter of faith and practice. And God's word reveals that, although the children of Israel used silver for their system of buying and selling, (see my above post) God's tithe was to come strictly from agriculture. I don't base God's tithe on what people in third world countries do to survive. Nor do I base God's tithe on what people in the United States of America do to survive. I base God's tithe on what His word says His tithe is.
  6. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    Many, in their zeal to defend their monetary tithe teaching pastors, will be quick to state that “They didn’t have money in ancient Israel, so they tithed crops and livestock.” But is that true? Were the ancient Israelites as destitute as so many want to portray them as being? A careful study of the word of God will reveal to the reader that silver was the means of buying and selling from the time of Abraham and forward. In Genesis 23, Abraham purchases the cave at Mach-Pelah from Ephron for 400 shekels of silver. Verse 16 of this chapter tells us that silver is the “current money of the merchant”. In Genesis 37, Joseph is sold into slavery for twenty pieces of silver. In Genesis 43, Joseph’s brethren took “double money” to Egypt to buy food. The word “money” in this chapter is translated from the Hebrew “keceph”. Keceph is defined as “silver." In Exodus 21, if a man’s ox injured another man’s slave, the owner of the ox was to pay the owner of the slave in silver. In Exodus 30, every male between the age of 20 and 60 is required to pay a tax of a half-shekel of silver annually,… whether they are rich or poor. In Leviticus 27, many things dedicated to God can be redeemed (bought back) with silver. Even a portion of one’s crops tithe could be redeemed. In Deuteronomy 14. the Feast tithe could be sold if it was too heavy, or if there was a chance of it spoiling before the Israelite reached the place of festivities. Upon reaching the place of festivities, the Israelites was to buy food as the Feast tithe and eat it with his family. In Judges 9. Abimelech paid people silver to follow him. In Judges 17, graven image purchased with 200 shekels of silver In Jeremiah 32, The weeping prophet purchased land from his uncle Hanameel with 17 pieces of silver. In Matthew 14, ointment might have been sold for three hundred pence. (denarius) In Matthew 20, parable speaks of workers agreeing to work for a penny. As to Abram’s tithe to Melchizedek... it was of war spoils, not of his monetary income. There is not one recorded instance in the entire Bible where Abram is said to have tithed his money, or his possession, to Melchizedek. Abram was living in an era when kings expected tithes of war spoils. The tithing of war spoils had been practiced for more than 285 years before Abram met with Melchizedek in the Valley of Shaveh. The account of Abram's tithe is descriptive... not prescriptive. In other words, there is no instruction in the word of God that says, Because Abram tithed to Melchizedek, the saved of God must tithe to their leaders." And, as pointed out previously in this post, Israel’s tithe was of agricultural increase, not of their monetary income. Israel’s monetary system, as proven by the verses referenced above, was silver and not agricultural increase. There is nothing in the word of God that indicates anyone being required to tithe their monetary income to either Tabernacle, Temple, Synagogue or Church. God knows everything that ever happened in the past. He knows what is happening in the present. He knows what will happen in the future. He made no provision in His word for man in any period of time to preach contrary to what is written in His Holy word. His commanded tithe was agricultural then. It has not changed to money, whether man wishes to make it money or not. Man can say God’s tithe is money for the next fifty years from now. But, ten thousand years beyond that, the Bible will still say the commanded tithe is agricultural. It is forever settled in Heaven. God’s commanded tithe never was, nor will it ever be money.
  7. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    This non tither no longer gives anything to any religious institution that lies about what God's commanded tithe is. God's Church is built on the truths written and spoken by the Apostles and Prophets... not on lies. The church built on lies will one day fall. Instead of giving to a church that teaches contrary to what God said His holy tithe is, we give to people in need in our network of friends. Proverbs 19:17 He that hath pity upon the poor lendeth unto the LORD; and that which he hath given will he pay him again.
  8. The Biblical Tithe: Cash or Crops?

    Not only do we disagree with you, but the Bible disagrees with you as well. I wouldn't have published the book if the Bible taught monetary tithing.
  9. It's in the Bible!

    If people are going to meet in a building, then certainly, finances will be needed for the maintenance of the building,... no doubt. Interestingly, all of the "giving" seen in the post-crucifixion texts clearly show the giving was for people who lacked, not for building maintenance. Of course, in the first century A.D., there were no electric bills, telephone bills, et.al.. My stand, as far as utilities for the building are concerned is, when a bill comes in, tell the congregation how much the bill is. Tell them to consider helping to meet the bill so that the amenities they are enjoying can continue. Assure them that you do not mean to take away from what is needed for their own families, but that, if they have something they can contribute, it will be most appreciated. Then, exercise faith that God will move in the hearts of His people. Sometimes, I believe that the monetary tithe doctrine shows, and often results in, a lack of faith. People don't have to trust God to move hearts if the know that certain people are already dedicated to yielding to the lie. That money is assured each month. It is then that the faith is seen in man,... not in God.
  10. It's in the Bible!

    While it is true that many who were tithing might give less, as you say, the monetary tithe requirement doctrine is indeed a lie. And we shouldn't perpetuate a lie just to garner finances. A church that has to lie to it's congregation in order to get them to give may as well close its doors. God is not in such a church. God's church is built upon the truths both written and spoken by the Apostles and the Prophets; neither of which taught a required monetary tithe. If monetary tithing were required in the Bible, I highly doubt that the Lord Jesus Christ would have allowed a thief (Judas) to be the Treasurer of his band of Disciples. Yet, John 12:3-4 tells us that Judas was indeed the one that carried the purse.
  11. It's in the Bible!

    It's in the Bible! by Ronald W Robey Whenever I mention the fact that I don't tithe, someone is sure to reply, "It's in the Bible!" And truthfully, tithing is indeed commanded in the Bible. I do not dispute that fact at all. However, we cannot focus on the fact that the command to tithe is in the Bible and ignore the commanded ELEMENTS of the tithe; the commanded GIVERS of the tithe; the commanded LOCATION of the tithe; the commanded RECIPIENTS of the tithe; the commanded YEAR of the tithe. A diligent study of the Bible will reveal to the reader many precious and wonderful truths that are ignored in so many mainstream religious institutions around the world today. There is no instruction in the entire Bible where God said that one's monetary income is to be tithed to either Tabernacle, Temple, Synagogue or Church. Even in the last place in the Bible where tithing is mentioned, (Hebrews 7:5-9) the author says that the tithes still belongs to the sons of Levi, and that the tithes are still "according to the Law. Since the author of Hebrews reveals that tithes are still "according to the Law, it is needful to go to the Books of the Law in order to learn what they say concerning God's holy tithe. The Law states that God's holy tithe is a) agricultural (Lev. 27:30-33 b) only required of the children of Israel (Lev. 27:34; Psa. 147:19-20) c) only to be observed by those living in the land of Canaan (Deut. 12:1,10-11) d) to be given to Levites, widows, orphans and foreigners; (Deut. 26:12) and even to be eaten by the one bringing the tithe. (Deuteronomy 14:22-26) e) to be given every third year (Deuteronomy 26:12) God NEVER amended the tithe command to say that a tenth of one's money is now required as tithe. He NEVER amended the tithe command to say tithes are to be given around the world. He NEVER amended the tithe to say that it is to be observed every week of the year and every year of your Christian life For that matter, God NEVER said that Christian's are required to tithe at all.. Pastor's have handled the word of God deceitfully in order to teach a tithe command that is totally foreign to the word of God, i.e.; a tithe of man's monetary income,... a tithe of unrighteous mammon. Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Attempting to obey the command to tithe, without obeying the other instructions connected to that command merits a curse, not favor. Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
  12. Abram's Obedience Test

    Since Melchizedek/Melchisedec was, by interpretation, "king of righteousness" and "king of peace", I believe Hebrews 7:3 is referring to these qualities. He didn't take a side and go to war with the five kings, nor with the four kings. He stayed out of the battle. He was indeed, a king of righteousness and peace.
  13. Abram's Obedience Test

    No need to feel sad for me. I find it sad that so many pastors often use historical facts when giving background of biblical events, yet are afraid to speak on the historic background of Abram's time. Though Melchizedek was Priest of the Most High God, he was still an ordinary king. Without mother, without father, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life simply speaks of there being no record of who his parents were, where he was born, or where he died. He wasn't a Christophany. He wasn't a Theophany. He wasn't an angel. He was a Canaanite king ruling over the city of Salem. And, for the record, I said nothing of present day tither's.
  14. Abram's Obedience Test

    "people didn't travel without food in those days. " Where's your "Biblical proof" for your claim?
  15. Abram's Obedience Test

    I have historical documentation that tells of the practice of giving war spoils to kings. That's proof enough. There's no biblical proof of a lot of things that are preached in our churches today. But many are documented in historical records.