Standing Firm In Christ

*Independent Fundamental Baptist
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About Standing Firm In Christ

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  • Birthday September 09

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  • Gender Male
  • Location: See Bio
  • Interests Reading the Word of God, Christians Based Movies, Bluegrass Gospel Music
  • Are you IFB? Yes


  • Bio Born in Africa, reborn in prison, dwell in Mississippi, live in Christ

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  1. Heads or Tails?

    The .999oz. "Sunshine Silver Bar"    sorry if the picture is not too clear, not the best lighting, nor the best angle...
  2. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    Pastors have no right to put guilt trips on snyone for not tithing. It is not a matter of semantics at all.  It is a matter of adhering to what the Word of God says concerning God's holy tithe. Just as calling a bicycle a Harley Davidson doesn't make it a Harley Davidson, so also, telling people that God's holy tithe is monetary doesn't make it so. God defined in His Word what His holy tithe was to consist of, who was required to tithe, where the tithe was to be observed, when the tithe was to be observed, and to whom the tithe was to be given.  The last place it is mentioned in the Bible, it is still to be given to the sons of Levi, and is still to be agricultural.  .  Preachers have no right to teach others that it is something other than what God said it was to be, who was required to tithe, where they were to tithe, when they were to tithe, and to whom they were to tithe to. The monetary tithe requirement doctrine is totally foreign to the Word of God. Then Peter and the other Apostles answered and said, "We ought to obey God rather than men." Acts 5:29      
  3. Heads or Tails?

    Yes, that is a Silver  Walking Dollar.  I just received one in the mail yesterday, along with 17 other silver coins,... As a gift.   the coins I received included: 10 silver dimesm mint caondition 5 silver buffalo nickels, mint condition Silver Canadian $5 Piece, mint condition 2 Silver Dollars, mint condition. Also included with the coins was a 1oz. .999 Sunshine Silver Bar. In God We Trust would be an awesome outward symbol,... if the wearer truly did trust in God.
  4. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    One has to wonder also, if the Pastor is wrong about this obvious doctrine, what else is he teaching that is misleading the flock?   A pastor who will not receive truth concerning tithing, should be suspect, in my opinion.  If they will not receive this truth, is it because of greed?  Is their heart desiring filthy lucre?  Is it pride?  Cannot humble themselves to the point that they are willing to admit to their congregations that they have been teaching a wrong doctrine, that they have wrongfully been taking money that God never authorized them to take?     Either reason shows a root of sin in their lives.
  5. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    I'd have to say it is YOUR interpretation that is both ludicrous and private.   The Biblical text reveals Abram promised God that he would not claim any of the spoils as his own.  Yet, your interpretation leaves the Biblical text and makes him to be a liar, keeping spoils as his own property.  The Biblical text reveals that it was spoils that Abram gave to Melchizedek.  Yet, your interpretation leaves the Biblical text and espouses the theory that Abram tithed items other than war spoils as well.    No, I never said, nor did I infer, that Abram was a thief or a hypocrite.  You are trying to manipulate my words just as you are manipulating the Biblical text.     It isn't mentioned that Abram tithed his own property, yet you are putting your opinion above the veracity of Scripture.  Historical facts of the customs do not take away from the Biblical account, nor do they add to the account.  They explain what was happening in history at that time.  Pastors use history quite often to show background surrounding a Biblical event.  Nothing wrong with it at all.    
  6. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    Nothing ludicrous about my stance at all.   Abram promised God that he would not take any of the spoils to himself.  This means they did not become his property.   so, yes, Abram did tithe the property of others. History records the tithing of war spoils both long before, during, and long after Abram's life was over; and that by the people of the country Abram came from,... Babylonia.  So, not a surprise that he would tithe the war spoils to a king.  It was a custom to do so.  It is possible that Melchizedek went out to meet Abram for that very reason,... to receive the customary tithe of spoils.   Melchizedek must have been aware of the victory Abram had obtained, for he brought refreshments with him to meet Abram.  Surely, after traveling more than 150 miles from his home, battling and defeating the wicked kings, Abram and his men were famished. Abram did not say he had eaten any of the spoils, only that the men in his command had eaten some.  Had Abram partook of any of the spoils, he would have broken his promise to God that he would not take any as his own. So, again, yes,... Abram tithed the property of others.   Under the Mosaic Law, tithes were to come from one's own agricultural produce and livestock.  However, Abram was not under the Mosaic Law.  He was living in a land where kings were to receive war spoil tithes. "And he gave him tithes of all...".  What did the author mean by all?  Verse 16 holds the answer.  Abram brought back the goods that had been stolen.  Context shows that the "all" in verse 20 was the "goods" in verse 16.   I am not twisting Scripture at all.  Rather, I am allowing Scripture to interpret Scripture.  I do see twisting in your post though.
  7. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    Not misunderstanding you at all.  You said,  to which I explained that tithing should not be in the Church.   Monetary tithing was not taught by the Apostles.  Nor was it taught by the Christian churches until late-nineteenth century.  In 1932, monetary tithing was still not taught in the Middle Tennessee Baptist denomination.  That year, John Harvey Grime, a MTB minister, said of monetary tithing, "Should a Baptist Church ever start teaching it, they will cease being Baptist." Abram did tithe before the Law.  But that does not mean we should tithe today.  Abraham also married his sister.  Should we marry our sister too?  Abram also had a child by another woman while married to his sister.  Abram also gave his wife to another man,  do we imitate all these too?  After all, they all took place before the Law, did they not?   There are bills associated with the meeting place of any religious organization, no doubt.  However, that does not mean people have to tithe in order to meet those needs.  The first church had needs.  Yet, not once is it recorded in God's Word that the  Body of Believers had to tithe to meet those needs.  Instead, people gave what they purposed to give.  And the needs were met. There is nothing wrong with a person giving 10% of their money if they choose to do that without being manipulated by deceitful sermons that guilt them, belittle them, or scare them into giving that ten percent.  However, it has been my experience over the last half century, that guilt, intimidation,  and fear play a major role in why people do give 10% of their money to the church.  Guilt, intimidation and fear instilled through preachers abusing Malachi 3:8-10 and other passages in our precious Bible.   One example of manipulation is when Robert Morris told his congregation that if they don't tithe, they open the door for demons to enter their life.  Who wants to open doors for demons, right?  Better get out that checkbook.  Another example is When Perry stone used intimidation by telling members of his congregation that if they didn't tithe they were stupid and thieves. Earlier, I put up a meme of a bulletin board with the names of many leaders who use guilt and fear to coerce people into giving ten percent of their money to the Church they pastor.  I could name many more that use the same types of manipulation.   Abram's tithe was not from his own personal property.  Nor was it from his own household income.  
  8. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    A better bulletin board...
  9. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    The Biblical definition is "a tenth; a tenth part".     Tithing should not be in the Christian Church.  God did not think tithing was necessary, else he would have told us so in the Word.  And if God did not think it necessary to practice monetary tithing, who are we to say it should be practiced?
  10. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    Actually, it was 20%.  "A fifth part".  A fifth part is 20% of a whole number.   If they wanted a bushel of barley back, they paid the assessed value of that bushel plus an additional 20% of the assessed value.   The crop tithe, whether in part or in whole, was redeemable.  However, verse 33 shows the animal tithe could not be redeemed.
  11. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    What preachers call tithes today is nothing like that which God’s Word says concerning His holy tithe. In the days from Aaron to the Apostle Paul, the tithe was only of the crops, flocks and herds. (Leviticus 27:30-33)  Today, it is taught that God requires our money to be tithed. (There is no Scriptural support for this teaching) In the days from Aaron to the Apostle Paul, only the Levites were authorized to receive the yearly tithe. (Numbers 18:24-26)  On the third year the tithe was kept in the tither's city to feed the widows, the orphans, the Levites that were living in the tither's city, and the foreigner that was visiting the city.  (Deuteronomy 14:22-23, 28-29)  Every seventh year, there was no tithe required. (Leviticus 25:4,20)  Today, churches teach a weekly tithe with no instruction to keep the tithe in your own community, nor is there a rest from the tithe every seventh year.  Pastors of the Church teach that the Church can receive it. (There is no Scriptural support for this teaching) In the days from Aaron to the Apostle Paul, the tithe was only required of those who owned land on which one could plant gardens or orchards, or breed livestock on. Men who did not own gardens, orchards or livestock were not required to tithe. (Deuteronomy 14:22)  Today, the Church teaches God requires all members of the congregation to tithe. (There is no Scriptural support for this teaching) In the days from Aaron to the Apostle Paul, only Israelites were required to tithe. (Leviticus 27:30-34; Psalms 147:19-20) The Levites could not accept tithes from anyone who was not of the nation of Israel. (Numbers 18:26)  Today, Church members all over the world are told to tithe. (There is no Scriptural support for this teaching) In the days from Aaron to the Apostle Paul, firstfruits and the tithe were separate (Nehemiah 10:37-38; 12:44)  Today, the Church teaches that tithes and firstfruits are the same thing. (There is no Scriptural support for this teaching) In the days from Aaron to the Apostle Paul, the tithe was of the increase of crops, flocks & livestock.  (Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteronomy 14:22)  Today, Churches teach that 10% of your paycheck is to be tithed. (There is no Scriptural support for this teaching) Contrary to the popular teaching, God is not going to curse you if you don’t tithe your money. Many a preacher will stand behind the pulpit and preach that Malachi 3:8-10 is a warning to their congregations that they will receive a curse if they don’t tithe their money. Since God’s Word defines what the tithe was, how can preachers say it is something different?  How can the members of the congregation agree that the tithe is something other than what God's Holy Word declares it to be?  Brethren, the tithe in Malachi 3 was of the crops. God says bring it in the storehouse. The storehouse was rooms encircling the Jewish Temple in Jerusalem. (1 Kings 6:5-10)  And God told the Priests who had stolen the tithes to return the tithes. If they would, He would open the windows of Heaven, (remember the first time the windows of Heaven are mentioned in the Bible? God made it rain upon the Earth) and He would pour out a blessing that the people would not be able to receive. He would rebuke the devourer (the locust) for their sake. Folks, God was speaking of abundance of crops as a blessing for tithing of the crops. God’s tithe was not money then, nor has it ever been. Brethren, if you want to please God with your money, give as the Apostle Paul instructed… as you purpose in your heart. (2 Corinthians 9:7)  Don’t give grugdingly, but rather willingly and cheerfully. But regardless if you give 10% of your money, it is not tithes according to the Word of God. Tithes were only of the crops, flocks, and herds. What you are giving when you give money is a contribution. There is not one instance of the Apostle's teaching the Gentile Churches to tithe their money in the Word of God. As a matter of fact, when the Jerusalem Council met as recorded in Acts 15, the Jerusalem Council wanted the Gentile Believers to be circumcised, AND to keep the Law of Moses.” (v.5)  The tithe was one of the laws found within the Law of Moses. What did James tell the Council that day? It seemeth good to the Holy Ghost and to us that no greater burden be laid upon the Gentile Believers than these necessary things: to abstain from blood, and from things strangled, and from idols, and from fornication. He ended with “if ye do these things, ye do well.” (vv.28-29) One would think that the Holy Ghost would have told James to teach the Gentile Churches that they were to tithe. But according to the Word of God, the tithe was not a necessary thing required of the Gentiles. So how are we to see to the financial needs of the Church if we don’t tithe? By giving cheerfully and willingly. Freewill contributions, not of compulsion or necessity. God loves a cheerful giver. If you purpose in your heart to give 10% of your money, great! But since God’s Word tells us what the tithe was, and who was required to tithe, your 10% of your money is not God’s tithe. It is a contribution.  When God's Word says His holy tithe is agriculture but the preacher says it is money, God is right and the preacher is wrong. The tithe of the congregation was not taken to the Temple/Tabernacle by the people. It was taken to the Levites in the farming communities, who in turn took a tithe of the tithe they received to the Temple/Tabernacle. (Nehemiah 10:37-38)  That’s right, only 1% of the original tither’s agricultural increase went to the House of God,… not 10%.  And it was the Levite who was responsible for taking the tithe to the House of God, not the children of Israel. Study it out folks. That which is preached as "God's tithe" today is not the tithe instituted by God. Not even close to that which God instituted.  It is totally foreign to the Word of God. Abram’s tithe to Melchizedek? Yes, that was prior to the Law. But that does not make tithing an eternal principle. Abram had concubines too. Is that an eternal principle? Abram married his sister. Is that an eternal principle? After all, it was before the Law. Abram’s tithe to Melchizedek was not of his own property. That which he tithed he did not consider his own. He told Bera, the king of Sodom, that he had promised God he would not keep any of the spoils of war for himself. So he was not tithing his own property, but the property of others. Abram’s tithe an eternal principle? Hardly. That is, unless we are to go to war; kill someone; recover stolen property from the dead, if any; tithe from that stolen property; and give the rest of the property away. Jacob’s tenth? Not a good example of an eternal principle. Jacob vowed a vow to give a tenth of all that God would give him, yes. But that vow was in context of WHAT God said He would give Jacob.  A careful study of Genesis 28 will reveal that Jacob’s vow had to do with land, not money. Jacob made that vow with conditions attached. And one of those conditions was not met until nearly 21 years after Jacob made the vow. If Jacob’s vow is an example we are to follow, then we can bargain with God. Tell Him if He meets certain criteria first, then we will give a tenth of all He has promised to give us. A careful and prayerful study of the Word of God will reveal to the reader that the tithe taught today is not what God’s Word says about God's holy tithe.  Preachers are falsely teaching a man-made command as if it is a doctrine ordained by God. Matthew 15:9. But in vain they do worship me; teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
  12. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    The passage does not say anything about Jesus conmmending the widow. 1 Timothy 5 says that if  man provides not for his own household he has denied the faith and is worse than an infidel. I highly doubt Jesus was commending the widow for denying her own household needs.   He was demonstrating how a spiritually bankrupt system was physically bankrupting widows, devouring their houses by taking their provision.  
  13. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    Still waiting for that verse that says the widow gave joyfully and because she wanted to.   Is that in 1 Opinions? Or 2 Opinions?   there is nothing in the Genesis or Hebrews accounts to indicate that Abram tithed his own riches, his own income.  Nor inany historical records.
  14. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    HoS,   Spot on, except for one line.... Actually, they had to surrender the tithe.  Then they had the option of buying it back if they so chose to do.    Leviticus 27:31 states, "And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add a fifth part thereto." The word "redeem" means "to buy back".  The farmer could not buy back something he had not first surrendered.  He tithed first. Then, he redeemed the tithe if he so chose to do.  
  15. The Tithe, for the Church or not?

    Thank you, Alimantado.