Alimantado

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About Alimantado

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Alimantado's Activity

  1. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Unsaved Son's Upcoming Wedding   

    ​Perhaps, but I would imagine that Jelly Babies don't make a very satisfying 'clink' noise.
  2. Alimantado added a post in a topic: current debate   

    Gotta say I'm usually quite sympathetic to Covenantor's plight in these discussions, not because I agree with his arguments but because he's usually the only one with any manners. But this time it's Pastor Markle who seems to be getting a raw deal--he's spending a lot of time defining terms, laying out his method, explaining his arguments, putting his questions clearly and carefully, yet he's not getting the responses he deserves.
  3. Alimantado added a post in a topic: 'Minor-Attracted Persons' PEDOPHILES! Cake pans?   

    I don't know if the video says anything more but that article says absolutely nothing about the murdered guy having molested the alleged murderer's brother or indeed anyone else. I've had a browse on the net and all I could find was the "one less child molester" quote, apparently made by the alleged murderer. So regardless of whether the guy who got shot had or hadn't, or whether he'd been convicted of such, all we have from the news media is the alleged murderer's say-so. So I wouldn't say it's been established--not even close.
    As for the hate crime thing, MountainChristian seems to be saying that it's an example of the priveliged status of gay people, i.e. had the murdered guy raped the alleged murderer's sister then the motive for the crime would be obvious to all. But because the murdered guy is gay the police can only conceive that he must have been the victim of a hate crime.
    Well that's one theory based on politics. But I think, what would I do if I was a copper? Unless the motive was abundantly clear then I guess I'd want to investigate all possible motives. The guy I've arrested claims the other guy molested his brother, so there's one. But it's only the guy's say-so and there's no corroborating evidence, e.g. convictions, police investigations or even a reputation. So do we know that was definitely the motive? Any other possibilities worth investigating? Well the accussed has white supremacist imagery tattoed all over his face and white supremacists have a penchant for talking about their hatred of all sorts of people and sometimes following it up with violence. So maybe the guy's lying about his own motive. Worth investigating.
  4. Alimantado added a post in a topic: 'Minor-Attracted Persons' PEDOPHILES! Cake pans?   

    I don't want to say yay or nay to anyone's predictions about the future, and I don't know how things are in the USA, but the UK is less tolerant of paedophilia now than it once was.
    In fact, one of the problems judges have been having when sentencing people found guilty of crimes committed in the 60s, 70s and 80s, is that they have been bound by comparatively lenient sentencing limits from those decades. The classic case is a TV presenter who did unspeakable things to young girls in the 1960s and was brought to trial and confessed to them last year. But because the law in the 60s stipulated that raping a child was only 'indecent assault' unless the jury was sure the child hadn't given 'consent', the judge had to sentence Green (in 2014) using the sentencing limits for indecent assault, which was a couple of years max. The law changed in 2003 to say that, of course, a minor can't give consent, and to be honest most people these days would vomit at the very suggestion that a child could--not so in the 50s and 60s, apparently.
    And then there were the casual references to child molestation that apparently so few in the 60s had a problem with that it was part of mainstream culture. For example, the lary old man chasing the underage girl cliche that was a staple of slapstick TV comedy back in the day--just think Carry On films and Benny Hill. Or bands like Rolling Stones writing song lyrics that boasted of having s** with underage girls.
  5. Alimantado added a post in a topic: "'Oops, I missed a step' Salvation."   

    ​Ok, but you talk about looking to, believing, submitting to, following. In those phrases is implied some measure cognition/understanding of what it is one is submitting to. You say "understanding of what things happened" can come later, so do you mean one can believe in and follow Christ while having no knowledge whatsoever of who Christ is and what happened at Calvary? And that knowledge of that stuff comes later on?
  6. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Rosie turned 91 today!   

    ​Great to see you again, Jerry. Have missed you. Hope vegetable plot is going well.
  7. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Rosie turned 91 today!   

    What a story! Many Happy Returns to your mother, 1T115.
  8. Alimantado added a post in a topic: ...don't run!...don't even move!   

    ​Further to other's comments, how is UK-style policing left wing? The UK police were set up with the aim of 'policing by consent', whereby the public were to trust and accept the police as peace keepers and law enforcers serving their interest, not as a paramilitary force serving political interests. That's why the decision was taken not to arm the police--for the sake of trust. Now that sounds almost libertarian to me, not lefty.
    Of course, what works in one country isn't necessarily best for another, because of history and local circumstances. For example, police are routinely armed in Northern Ireland.
    As for all the stats--the US has about 5 times the number of people the UK has.
  9. Alimantado added a post in a topic: "'Oops, I missed a step' Salvation."   

    ​Ok, but John has been talking in his OP not just about physical steps but mental 'steps':
    "Many say some things are needed before true faith can 'become available'. Some say a various level of repentance or sorriness for your past sins is needed before salvation. Another relies on various levels of hearers knowledge or the presenters accurately voicing the truth; they have to understand the events correctly as presented in the correct bible (1611 KJAV Pure Cambridge Edition only for English speakers or it won't work)."
     I've underlined the bits I'm talking about. Now I've heard some pretty extreme examples of what I think John's talking about. I've heard folk say that if your belief in Jesus' crucification doesn't include a correct belief in the exact shape of the cross--maybe you think it's a square cross instead of a rectangular one--then your belief is actually in the "wrong Jesus". Or if someone shares the Gospel with you and you accidentally mishear when they say that Jesus rose on the third day and you think they have said four days, then if you believe you are believing in the "wrong Jesus", not the actual one who died and rose on the third day, and if you turn to that Jesus for your salvation, you'll actually be putting your faith in no-one.
    On the other hand, though, I do think that that there is some knowledge needed before one can believe in the Gospel and turn to Jesus for salvation. For example, I don't think you can be saved if you somehow end up believing that Jesus was a giraffe the Romans kept in a zoo near Calvary. Now I guess someone could argue that the Holy Spirit wouldn't let that happen to a seeker, so all we need to do is present the Gospel honestly and rely on the Holy Spirit to bring the person to a correct understanding, sufficient for them to respond, should they choose, to the offer of salvation. Is that one of the points you're making, John?
     
     
  10. Alimantado added a post in a topic: "'Oops, I missed a step' Salvation."   

    I've had a read through both John Y's posts and I still don't think I understand quite what is being said. John has this entreaty in his first post:
    "What I learned as a young man is that while information, knowledge, physical actions, etc can help me better understand Christ redemptive work and to grow in faith and wisdom, there are no steps, no process, no 'things' I can do to pre-approve myself mentally or verbally."
    And then later he says:
    "To be clear the drawing of the Spirit is not a mystical thing. The Spirit draws all men by the hearing of His spoken word through the preaching of saved people and their biblical witnessing materials (His word transmitted in print and comprehended as speech in the mind of the reader)."
    The best way I can tie those two statements together is to surmise that John is proposing that while we can identify some tangible components of the process of a person's salvation, we don't need to labour on the details, i.e. does the person know this, have they been taught that. Rather, the Holy Spirit can take care of all that and what doesn't happen before salvation will happen during sanctification. Is that a fair summary, John?
    And I see Heartstrings also affirms that there are no 'steps' to be taken to be saved:
    "I reiterate that there are no 'steps' to take to get saved. Jesus took all the necessary steps and all we are required to do is to believe on him, trusting Him to save us from our sin. Some people cannot physically 'call' on Him or 'confess' him audibly. But it's the heart God is interested in and one cannot, nor will not 'call' upon God in faith until the heart has already truly repented/turned to Jesus."
    On the one hand I agree in that salvation isn't like a magic spell: say this, then do that, then touch your toes, etc. etc. However, I also think that, while there are some groups who are either pretty woolly on what's needed for salvation, or deny any essential difference between being saved and being sanctified, Baptists haven't traditionally been among those, and it's Baptists who have it right.
    From what little I know of other groups, they seem to downplay or deny any set of criteria for being 'born again' in the following ways:
    1. Pentecostals and Charismatics emphasise the leading of the Holy Spirit to the extent that it's *all* about the Holy Spirit and everything else is minor. The Holy Spirit draws a person and if that person desires a loving 'personal relationship' with the Holy Spirit, the Spirit then does everything else: makes them believe in the right stuff, brings them to a state of repentence etc. Because the Holy Spirit is doing all of that, nobody needs to worry about what that stuff actually is.
    2. Roman Catholics roll salvation and sanctification into one. They say that God will have mercy on anyone who is honestly seeking and that some will end up a good way towards full sanctification on earth--they'll be fully paid up members of the Catholic Church etc.--while others will end up doing a good portion of their journey to sanctification in purgatory. Because there is no 'moment' when a person goes from being unsaved to saved, there are no prerequisites other than that a person is an 'honest seeker'.
    3. Calvinists say that although God has means and those means involve people preaching and other people listening and responding, it's all predetermined to play out successfully, so no-one need worry too much about getting the details right.
    Contrary to all the above, and laying aside questions about babies and the unborn and the mentally ill for now, I've always understood that for a person to be saved there are a set of pretty definite 'facts' that a person needs to understand in order to comprehend their state as a sinner before God, to be able to believe in the person and work of Jesus Christ, and to go on to respond to the call to repent. That sounds like a 'mental step' to me, so when John says there are no mental steps needed I get a bit nervous!
  11. Alimantado added a post in a topic: "'Oops, I missed a step' Salvation."   

    ​Still the same. To remove formatting, just copy and paste it into notepad and then back into the post again. Here it is for folk who can't see it:
    "Oops, I missed a step" Salvation.
    Romans 8:26-29 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God. And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
    I was saved at the age of five. To be honest I do not remember a time that I did not believe Christ paid the price of my redemption through His Blood. (Having Godly Missionary parents, and learning to read from the Bible tends to have that effect.) So to be more accurate; At the age of five I made my profession known. And then at the age of 16, I confirmed that faith by being baptized at Gilead Baptist Church in Owosso, MI.
    We are to make sure our salvation:
    Philippians 2:11-13  and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.12 Wherefore,my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and todo of his good pleasure.
    I bring this up to tell you that the greatest question I had as a child and as a young man was "Did I miss a step?" This question never came about from an unbelief in Christ or the Bible but from a strong desire to do all that I could to follow as closely as possible God's words for my "salvation".
    Now as every Bible Believing Christian knows it is the faith in Christ work which saves us and this salvation is free. The problem though is the "application process" or a set of requirements in order to "qualify" your faith. "Things you must do before this "event" that show you are truly "accepting" salvation "correctly" and things you must do after the event to "prove" you have been "saved". (Sounds harder then doing my taxes in order to get money that is already mine!)
    Also, each process is fully backed up by random verses which promote their process with a additional caveat that if you ascribe to any other model then you are not correct and are now bound for Hell! If their model is not popular among other Christians they will add the fact that Christ said "few there be that find it".
    Matthew 7:13-15 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat: 14 because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.15 Beware of false prophets,which come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
    On one small point I appreciate the Catholics because they are honest and say it is all part of a "process of salvation" but for many Baptist (because they play gymnastics with words and separate the process in our minds) will pay lip service to "faith in Christ alone" but then doubt a person's salvation if they failed to complete a "process of sanctification" to which many unconsciously ascribe and link to saving faith.
    Some Christian Jews had this problem in:
    Acts 15:1 And certain men which came down from Judæa taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses,ye cannot be saved.
    Many say some things are needed before true faith can "become available" Some say a various level of repentance or sorriness for your past sins is needed before salvation. Another relies on various levels of hearers knowledge or the presenters accurately voicing the truth; they have to understand the events correctly as presented in the correct bible (1611 KJAV Pure Cambridge Edition only for English speakers or it won't work).
    Now we come to the "Free Gift" hopefully you chose the correct "pre-approval process. At this point you have three options (but be careful because if you chose wrong you don't understand salvation and will have to start over or go to Hell!)1. "Ask for salvation" by prayer. 2. Just acknowledge Christ work but don't say anything or it proves you do not believe Romans 3:19. 3. Be baptized by immersion before believers to show your belief.
    Romans 3:19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
    Now you are saved but you we're not really saved you did not give God Lordship authority or do not do these following things in six months/rest of your life or when we all discover a mistake in our model.
    By this time you understand what I'm getting at through my exaggerated examples and may even ascribe to a milder form of one or two points my intent is not to prove or disprove anything but to also share the model I used for salvation. Look. Believe. Follow. Simple desire of the heart words.
    John 1:33-37 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. 35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 and looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God! 37 And the two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
    What I learned as a young man is that while information, knowledge, physical actions, etc can help me better understand Christ redemptive work and to grow in faith and wisdom, there are no steps, no process, no "things" I can do to pre-approve myself mentally or verbally.
    Ultimately Salvation is a matter of the Spirit and must be performed through the hearing the Spirit’s call and not from some steps,formula or process. These things will merely amplify what the Spirit has already done in my heart. The Spirit gives the birth and I merely cry Aba! Father! (Galatians 4:6)
    Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
    Genesis 4:26c then began men to call upon the name of the Lord.
    Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord [from the heart's true desire] shall be saved.
    Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
    Acts 11:15-17 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. 17 For as much then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
    At this point many out of concern will perhaps wish to present a step we must keep in mind or risk leading a sinner down a wrong path. Remove that link to head knowledge and let Christ work in the man's heart. Lift up Christ and let Him worry about the steps and you might be surprised that a few extra lost people find the narrow way into heaven without all our extra steps and sign post.
    We need to learn that: People "being saved" require a process and teachers but people which are saved required only a Saviour.
    John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
    Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.
    Proverbs 3:5-6 Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; [not head] and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
    John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
    Acts 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
  12. Alimantado added an answer to a question: I had read Isaiah 8, can you tell me for certain who vs 14 is about?   

    Hi KnockKnock. Five distinct questions! I don't think they could be answered without a bit of time spent, and for that reason, given your conduct the other evening, I think I'd want a bit more candour from you about your reasons for interacting with this forum before I'd be prepared to invest. Just speaking for myself...
  13. Alimantado added a post in a topic: KnocKnock   

    ​Did you see anyone you liked, Jim? ;-)
  14. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Prophecy Debate on Daniel 9   

    Hi
    A bit late to this but since the discussion will be progressing slowly perhaps there's still time to consider the following:
    I wonder whether, at the beginning of the debate, it might be worth posting a link to the the last time this subject was 'officially' debated on OB, back in 2006. Granted it wasn't a debate about Daniel 9 exclusively but it did go into it. I've very briefly looked at that debate and sadly it looks like some of the posts have been truncated--perhaps a result of one of the software migrations?I wonder if it would be worth specifying as a rule whether the debators must stick to the KJV or whether they will be free to base arguments on underlying texts/translations. I'm referring to arguments along the lines of "the English word means X but the Hebrew means Y, therefore Y", or "the English word means only X but the underlying Hebrew word can also mean Y and Z, therefore Y and Z". I suggest this because it occasionally becomes a point of contention during discussions on OB and therefore even if Pastor Markle and Covenantor agree on their method (and I think they do), it would clarify their stance for readers.Ta
    Carl
     
  15. Alimantado added a post in a topic: "'Oops, I missed a step' Salvation."   

    One long line for me too--on three different PCs.
    Ta
    Carl

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