Alimantado

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About Alimantado

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Alimantado's Activity

  1. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Atheists and delusion   

    Certainly nothing surprising about the stuff proposed in that article. Even the police have done worse: in UK the MET placed undercover officers with environmental campaign groups and these guys stayed with those groups for years, not just observing but, according to the latest allegations, influencing and directing the groups' activities. It's now alleged that the famous anti-McDonalds leaflet that resulted in a huge court case against campaigners in the 1990s was actually written by an undercover officer. Worst of all is that to better infiltrate the groups, officers started intimate relationships with female campaigners, some that lasted years, and they even fathered children by them. One apparently was dividing time up between his real wife and kids (who didn't know about his state-sanctioned adultery) and his undercover partner and children. Then when their bosses at the MET gave the order, these officers abandoned their activist partners and children, fobbing them off with cover stories about them having to flee the country. One woman spent years trying to contact her partner in Spain, occasionally receiving postmarked letters from him. In fact, her partner was just a few miles away behind a desk at the MET, having resumed his normal life (and now with an MBE from the Queen!).
  2. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Catch John81!!!   

    Incidentally I remember when Salyan and me were level pegging. And I'm sure for the last two years I've been posting on here more than she has yet I've still not caught up. The only explanation I can think of is that she is creating lots of posts that I can't see, i.e. lots of gossip in the womens'-only room.
  3. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Catch John81!!!   

    My average is 0.5 posts a day, at which rate it would take me 303 years to catch up to where John is right now.
  4. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Catch John81!!!   

    John's been averaging 18 posts a day (64,009 posts: 3,558 days). In 3 months he'll have posted the equivalent of a No Nicolaitans all over again!
  5. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Comment On Current Debate   

    Person A: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.
    Person B: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.
    Person A: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.
    Person B: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.
    Person A: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.
    Person B: What?!!! How dare you!! You are accusing me and calling me names, which shouldn't be allowed, whereas when I say the same things about you I am stating the truth, which is ok. I am being led by the Holy Spirit and am right about what scripture says, whereas you are not and are wrong. Scripture tells us that those who are wrong are liars and dogs and publican heathens, although technically I'm not calling you those things since I am not using your name in the same sentence.
     
    I mention no names...
  6. Alimantado added a post in a topic: a real atheist   

    Hi Old-Pilgrim, I don't know if you've noticed during the recent flurry of activity on the forum, but there have been several threads discussing atheism and more than one of them has seemed to touch on the question you are asking here (if I understand the question). Therefore it might be worth you having a quick review of those and quoting or linking to any posts that you think are relevant to the question, or if you find that your question fits nicely into a discussion on another thread, you might choose to post it on there and close this one.
    Just a suggestion to avoid duplicate discussions!
     
  7. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Atheists and delusion   

    Fair enough, Potatochip. I guess I don't see the value in such theoreticals and extrapolations. Is it your conclusion, then, that the average atheist is a rabid psycopath and that folk need to beware before knocking on one's door or inviting one into church? If so then, like I said earlier (and John seems to be saying), your conclusion just doesn't seem to map onto reality, at least where I live, since atheists appear to be about the same morality-wise as the average so called Christian.
    In fact, I reckon the difference between your average atheist and your average 'nominal Christian' (or whatever you want to call them) is almost nothing, and whether they identify as atheist or Christian is probably just the result of cultural norms. In more 'religious' areas (including UK 100 years ago), folk will go to church--or not even go to church--and vaguely believe in a 'higher power' and identify as Christian because that's the done thing. In a secular area, the same kind of people will just identify as atheist. In both cases, these people will not spend more than about 5 minutes a year thinking or caring about where they've come from or their eternal destiny and their heart will be focused on social status, family, possessions, real estate, career, business, qualifications, sports team or other domestic stuff. And in both cases they'll have a moral code that's broadly equivalent to what their culture says is right and wrong, and they'll neither know nor care what the basis is for their moral code. Those are the kind of people that are around me.
     
     
     
  8. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Flying cat ....   

    Get back to work.
  9. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Atheists and delusion   

    If an atheist denies he has a conscience then he still has one.
    And as for atheists denying there's right or wrong, I've never met an atheist in the flesh who thinks this, and I've met hundreds, so that makes me wonder how much of this is just speculation and conjecture, unless the atheists where you live are very different to where I live. So yeah, if an atheist denies there is right and wrong then they might go on to reason they can do what they want, but that doesn't necessarily mean they'll be able to ignore their conscience.
    The difference with the catholic is that there is no god that will apprehend him? Not sure what that means.
  10. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Atheists and delusion   

    I can't really follow most of this, I'm afraid, Potatochip. Are you saying I'm living by the law? Are you saying I'm Muslim?? And all this stuff about Atheists can't explain this and can't explain that--so what? Who's saying that they could and what does that have to do with anything I said in response to you? And your example of the catholic recognising he's sinning while the atheist doesn't: yes, I acknowledged that's what you were saying and in my response I explained why I didn't agree with the point. I said that Romans 2:14-15 tells us that an atheist has a conscience and can be convicted by it, and I pointed out examples of atheists I knew who demonstrably had morals.
  11. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Atheists and delusion   

    The historicity of the resurrection convinced me of the truth of the Gospel. But it took another year or two for me to respond to the call. If you want to, you can even look back over this forum and read it happening in 'real time'! I don't see what my testimony has to do with the above, though.
  12. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Atheists and delusion   

    Most people are not deep thinkers and will not be able to 'ground' anything, not least their moral code. Even most Christians I know will respond with a fairly basic 'God says so' when asked about where morality comes from and more specifically why some things are right and some things are wrong.

    But just because someone can't account for their moral code, it doesn't mean they don't have one, and therefore asking whether someone believes in 'moral absolutes' tells you almost nothing. You certainly can't go from someone not believing in moral absolutes to necessarily concluding that therefore they must think murder and rape are fun and would be raping and murdering away if it wasn't for the threat of arrest.

    Almost all my family, friends and home and business acquantances are atheists, and I can vouch that they have many of the same scruples that Christians have: for example they think killing someone is wrong, they think stealing is wrong, that lying and swindling and cheating is wrong. Of course there are many other wicked things they think are fine. But why do they have any morals at all? Well they get taught right and wrong by their parents for one thing, and of course Romans 2:14-15 tells us that that even though people are depraved, yet they still have a God-given conscience.

    One thing that's popped up in the wake of our recent atheist visitor, and which I've found surprising, has been the tendency to depict atheists as a class apart--leagues more depraved than normal sinners (whatever they are). Look at Potatochip, saying that atheists have no conscience whatsover for child molestation, whereas the noble Catholic does. And then Potatochip goes on to show us how atheism leads to sins like covetousness and idolatry, as if atheism alone produces them.

    I take issue with this, not because I think atheists aren't idolators and covetors and sexual deviants, but because the apparently unique sinfulness of atheists that Potatochip and others are describing just doesn't map onto reality, at least not where I live, and I'll wager that atheists are commoner here (UK) than in most places in US.

    Guess what, if you walk down the driveway of the average atheist's house where I live, they aren't going to leap naked from a garden shrub and try to rape you. Nor are they going to say they wish they could but are afraid of being arrested.

    And guess what, in most societies--though perhaps not UK--the majority of people don't claim to be atheists, and yet the same nations, especially Western ones, are shot through with idolatry, covetousness, love of money, adultery, fornication and every kind of sin.

    We don't need to carry out hatchet jobs on particular groups of sinners, since all are plenty sinful, and all are already condemned.
  13. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Opinions On Atheists?   

    I recall believing in God at a very young age, but not 'intrinsically', for example by thinking that God must be real because He created the things all around me. Instead, my school (run by the Church of England, like most) told me that God was 'up there' and that good people went to heaven and bad people to hell, and like most children I accepted what I was taught.
    I also remember I didn't really care one way or the other, since no-one ever talked about God—neither my parents nor my friends or their parents. At school, God only came up in hymns and the Lord's Prayer, which we had to do in assembly every day. I remember wondering what is this they make us say: something about tresspassing on private property and God having castles that can move (Thy Kingdom come).
    so I just got on with school and doing things that boys do (including a lot of birdwatching). By the time I got to about 11, God was just another thing that I'd been reassured wasn't actually real, like Father Christmas and witches and vampires and ghosts. And since I only ever heard about God in songs and the occassional old story, why would I think any different?
    I don't recall thinking or hearing about God at all through my teens, except one or twice in English lessons when we did Shakespeare. When I went to university, I was surprised to encounter folk in their late teens and twenties who apparently sincerely believed in God. I even heard that there was a well-attended Christian society on campus: that astonished me.
    After I left uni, I went to work and an office colleague witnessed to me. I feel my 'journey' to Christ really started there—hand on my heart I don't recall experiencing a tug or a pang of conscience or a bout of 'congnitive dissonance' before that. And believe me it's tempting to rewrite my own history to include such, since so many Christians are adamant that atheists actually believe in God, providing verses that they say very plainly support this idea. Of course, if someone wants to pyschoanalyse and say that one can deceive oneself so thoroughly that they are no longer conscious of their own self-deception, I can't argue with that. But the above is just my 'atheist' history as I actually remember it, in case any are interested.
  14. Alimantado added a post in a topic: Opinions About Evolution?   

    I'm not defending his coming here, since the board rules clearly say this is a fellowship forum and not a debate form, meaning not a place for others to come in and debate our fundamental beliefs, but I've gotta comment on the bit above. He's saying he came here under pretenses, so what he's saying is that he was told he'd be able to have serious discussions when he was invited here, but that it transpires (according to him) that were no serious discussions to be had. He's saying he was invited here under a pretense. Whether TheSword really did invite him and whether he really did tell this guy that this forum was a place for debate, I don't really care since the guy still should have read the forum rules.
  15. Alimantado added an answer to a question: Free Will: An Atheist's Question   

    I'm probably not going to end up answering your questions exactly as you've posed them, but happy to give some thoughts.
    I admit I can't provide a logical explanation for free will, but then I couldn't explain it when I was an atheist either, and at times I even tended towards determinism, which many atheists hold to, though I could never stomach it for long!
    You're bringing up an apparent conflict between the idea of free will and secondary causation, i.e. God being a prime mover--incidentally I think procedural generation in software is also a good illustration of this problem. If something (anything, not necessarily God) sets in motion a universe with laws of cause and effect, where is there room for free agency when every effect is the product of a prior cause? So while this does present a challenge to Christians that hold to free will and human responsibility, I don't think there's anything particularly theistic about the logical problem itself.
    I think Christianity actually has a different problem with free will that other 'systems' (e.g. atheism) don't have, which is a conflict between secondary causation and God existing outside of time. How can a creator be a prime mover at all if the creator exists outside of time? Surely from the creator's perspective, they are creating a picture of a sequence of events, like a cartoon strip or the Bayeux Tapestry, rather than instigating an actual series of events. Or in other words, how can a God that's outside of time 'create' a beginning without simultanously creating an end?
    Personally, the way I've tended to deal with philosophical problems about free will is to, er, not deal with them. Christianity does not present a strange universe: it proposes secondary causation and free will, which is pretty much equivalent to what I believed when I was an atheist (and experience everyday, of course), and which comes with some of the same age-old philosophical problems. I'm happy to chalk it up to a mystery, or assume that God makes it so in a way that's not explainable.
    By the way, I think both Calvinism and Open Theism are Christian attempts to deal with the problem of free will.