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DaveW last won the day on March 16

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About DaveW

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    Resident Aussie and general dumb bloke
  • Birthday 09/30/1968

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    I'm a West Aussie
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  1. Seeing things differently is answering "No" to a question to which the answer is clearly "Yes"? Is it any wonder that he thinks you are playing games? There is "seeing things differently" and there is this......
  2. Interesting set of answers considering number 3 in light of Alan's post. I wonder which of the other answers are "reinterpreted" from fact? I wonder which of her other statements are stated in terms as "correct" as her answer in number 3? And that answer is a pretty strange "mistake" to make, considering the precise nature of question 3.
  3. Well that certainly explains why she is so vehemently opposed to what the Bible actually says in Jordan's originally questioned passage.
  4. Hey Jordan, I hope you are satisfied with the answers to part 2 of this question? As far as Part 1 is concerned: Mar 16:15-20 (15) And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. (16) He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (17) And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; (18) They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. (19) So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. (20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. This passage gives the purpose for the gifts: (20) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen. The purpose of the signs was to "confirm the Word with signs". Since the Word is the completion of that which is "in part", and no longer needs such confirmation - because we KNOW it is the Word of God, the signs are no longer needed. This is hardly watertight Jordan, but it is another indicator, and maybe a passage that you can investigate further in regard to this matter.
  5. Hunting yummy things

    Sorry I missed this first time around. Yeah, we call em........... donkeys and mules...... Wild horses here are called brumbies (brumby - singular), but they are proper horses - generally smaller and stong rather than fast, but they are introduced (early years of European settlement), went wild, and are now just about extinct due to people crowding them out and farmers locking up pasture lands. I have in the past known people who were involved in muzzle loading - I am pretty sure they would be allowed under current Aussie laws. I used to know a guy (friend of my father's) who started making replica firearms, and ended up making competition pistols - Olympic grade - in his backyard shed! But he was never a shooter at all - never hunted anything at any time, and I don't think he ever even fired on a range. His interest was purely technical, and so, his technical skill allowed him to make excellent replicas and competition weapons.
  6. The KJV and the Usage of Non-KJV's

    Yes NoNics, that's probably true, but it is also certainly not a hidden point. Many moons ago, I mistakenly found my phone Bible set to some strange version, and when I was posting from there I had a few questions asked. I don't even know how it happened, but it did. Fixed it as soon as it was pointed out. But the reminder is a timely one. I have to say also, that of late (the last two years in particular) we have had people specifically seeking a hymn singing, KJV preaching church. And one of the new couples here who have been saved for many years but attending some other church for that time, have started using the KJV because our church does, and they have commented that "they are learning so much more since they started reading the KJV" - their exact words, unprompted. This is not stated as a proof of anything by the way, just as a record of what happened here a few weeks ago.
  7. I have VERY CLEARLY explained what I mean. If you are so determined to misunderstand/misrepresent my words, then there is simply no point in me continuing with this thread.
  8. 1Co 13:9-10 (9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. (10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. Knowledge - in part. Prophecy - in part. Complete that which is in part? Perfect that which is in part? Your bolded words are only possible meanings of the word, not the absolute definition of the word. The PRIMARY meaning of the word is to COMPLETE (which is why it is the first meaning listed). Which meaning should be referred to is defined by the surrounding words and context. The PASSAGE ITSELF uses the terms "in Part" in contrast to "perfect", thereby setting the meaning of the word "perfect" as relating to "in Part" - in other words, to complete, to perfect, that which is currently in part. The things which are "in part" are ABSOLUTELY DEFINED IN THE PASSAGE as knowledge (Spiritual knowledge is implied, not general knowledge), and prophecy. These are both to do with spiritual knowledge from God, or "Special revelation". This then defines the meaning of "that which is perfect" as also relating to knowledge and prophecy. The Passage itself sets this as the subject under discussion. To force the secondary meaning of "Mental or moral character" into this usage of the word has no justification. Where do we see any discussion in this passage about "mental or moral character" in relation to either that which is in part or that which is perfect? And don't refer back to the discussion on the definition of charity earlier in the chapter for vs 8 begins by pointing out that charity NEVER FAILETH BUT THE PROPHECIES AND KNOWELDGE DO FAIL AND VANISH AWAY. (1Co 13:8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. This fact alone removes the likelihood of "Mental or moral character" because the new subject is CONTRASTED against the discussion of charity. Charity has all these factors that could be considered to do with character, but it never fails, and these other things absolutely will fail. The illustrations used are consistent with and supportive of the subject being knowledge and prophecy: (1Co 13:11) When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. Children have a limited understanding, just like the people of Paul's time had a limited revelation from God. You yourself have pointed that out in discussions with Eric. (1Co 13:12) For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. Looking into a mirror in those days - or even through an old piece of glass - gave a reflection (or image through the glass) that was lacking in detail, or a not a clear representation of the truth. However, looking face to face you can see clearly all the details. Paul finishes this section by saying that now his knowledge was in part, but then (when that which is perfect is come) he shall have full knowledge. All of this points to the FACT that prior to the completion of the Bible there have been various stages of understanding of spiritual matters, with some things deliberately left a mystery, and some portions of Scripture deliberately sealed by God for a time period. Knowledge and Prophecy IN PART. Now however, we have the completed revelation from God. Complete, or "that which is perfect". The ENTIRE CONTEXT, the terms used, the illustrations used, the obvious subject, the STATED items that are in part as distinct from perfect, ALL Direct us to the understanding that special revelation is the theme of this section of the letter, and when we have the perfect or complete revelation from God, then the items in part - special revelation actively from God at that time - would be done away. Because we have a more sure Word of prophecy. Now that we have the complete, perfect, Word of God without error and without mistake, as closed by John the Apostle under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, we have no further need of special revelation as an ongoing thing. That which was in part - partial knowledge being given actively at that time - has been done away with by the perfect written Word of God. There is NO NEED for active special revelation now, and therefore no need for those signs which confirm it was from God.
  9. You forcing of the context of the body into the passage which is the subject of this thread in particular has no justification. That which is perfect is not, and cannot be, the body. The passage itself contrasts that which is perfect with that which is in part - that which is in part is knowledge and prophecy as designated directly in the passage. The perfecting of that knowledge and prophecy can only be the Word of God, the perfect record of all spiritual knowledge that we need. The illustrations are all relating to clarity of understanding and growth of knowledge. That which is perfect is not and cannot be the body. The direct passage precludes it, the context of the passage precludes it, the illustrations do not match it, and thr meaning of the words used does not support it.
  10. Ah bur chapter 11 is talking about prayer, and even mentions prophesying, so that which is perfect must be prayer........ Really ??? Subjects move and change through the letters, and the subject is clearly not the body in the verses in question.
  11. uhhh - chapter BEFORE.... the whole subject has moved on, and Paul specifically contrasts what is "in part" with "that which is in perfect". That which is "in part" is designated as knowledge and prophecy, therefore "that which is perfect" is the perfection of that. 1Co 13:9-10 (9) For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. (10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
  12. Bzzzz - wrong. The subject of the passage is knowledge and understanding. The "Body of Christ" is nowhere mentioned in this passage(1 Cor 13), and for you to apply it to this has absolutely no justification, and your application of the phrase "perfect man" to somehow relate to the "body of Christ" also has no justification.
  13. Thanks Jordan - this has prompted me to do a new study on this subject and I have enjoyed my time (as yet unfinished). I will only point out at this time that only one single "sign gift" is mentioned in this chapter - tongues. As such it is not a relevant passage to conclude that ALL sign gifts have ceased. (I believe that they have by the way, but this is not the passage to prove it from.)
  14. Matthew 12:40

    Which I will not answer.... .....because it will not serve any useful purpose.