Covenanter

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About Covenanter

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    Super Contributor
  • Birthday 03/11/1939
  • Bio Member of FIEC churches since 1957 - the year of my conversion & baptism.
    Married to Ann.
    FIEC is the UK equivalent of IFB, with a doctrinal basis that insists onfundamentals, but allows divergence on other matters.

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  • Gender Male
  • Location: Southall, West London, England
  • Interests Bible Study, Family, Music, Tennis, Table tennis, Photography
  • Are you IFB? No

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Covenanter's Activity

  1. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Baptist and Calvinism   

    Was Moses a "calvinist?" Deu. 7:1-10
    7 The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people:
    8 But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt.
  2. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Hmmm!   

    ​You are 100% correct.
     
  3. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Revelation chapter 19-22 Study.   

    ​See the deletion topic - no specific reason is given. 
    @BroMatt closed the thread on March 30 with the words "Locking this thread until I can review everything tomorrow morning."
  4. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Debate - Prophecy in Daniel 9   

    ​20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the LORD my God for the holy mountain of my God;
    Consider the grammar carefully, & God is Daniel's God, & Israel comprises Daniel's people. 
    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    As the prophecy proceeds, "thy holy city" is Jerusalem, but "thy people" are not further identified, though we can recognise the "many" with whom the covenant is confirmed as "my people Israel", aka "thy people," these being the many thousands converted during Jesus' earthly ministry, & during the first few years after Pentecost. That's within the 70 weeks. Further conversion of Jews has continued down the ages.
    To what extent are they Daniel's people & city? He acknowledges them as his people - he is an Israelite & he does not disassociate himself from those who were disobedient & caused the exile. Jerusalem is his city, presumably of birth, & certainly as a Jew in exile he considered Jerusalem as his city. 
    Are disobedient, rebellious Israel "my people?" See Hosea, written over 100 years before Daniel. 
    9 Then said God, Call his name Loammi: for ye are not my people, and I will not be yourGod.
    Happily their disobedience does not annul the promises to the Patriarchs, nor the purposes of God for his people which are fulfilled in Christ by the Gospel. 
     
  5. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Palindrome   

    How many syllables in "monosyllabic?"
  6. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Baptist and Calvinism   

    I am not joining in this thread except to add:
    I respect the forum policy, so I will not promote the doctrines nicknamed "Calvinism" but are better understood as "Reformed doctrine" or "the doctrines of grace." I will however - as I have from time to time - correct false attacks on the doctrine. A year or two ago a forum member (now banned) specialized in devising arguments against & refuting his own misunderstandings. 
     
     
  7. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Debate - Prophecy in Daniel 9   

    Bro Scott wrote:
    "Brother Day,
    The word "thy" is a first person, singular personal pronoun of possession.  While delivering his message to Daniel (the simple, contextually straightforward truth), the angel Gabriel uses this pronoun twice in Daniel 9:24, once in the phrase, "upon thy people," and once in the phrase, "upon thy holy city."
    Considering that the simple (contextually straightforward) truth is that the angel Gabriel was speaking to Daniel when he delivered the message of Daniel 9:24, when the angel Gabriel used the pronoun "thy" in this message, to what specific, singular individual was the angel Gabriel making reference?”
    I have answered your question twice. I presume you are making some grammatical point that was not answered by quoting the relevant Scripture, nor by the answer I gave:
    “The simple answer is that Gabriel is speaking to Daniel, but any message to a prophet is also for the people he serves, & as the product is Scripture, it is for all God's people to read & understand, & also to apply as appropriate. “
    Time to move on. I will begin by reposting my understanding of v.26 & continue with v. 27.
    Coming to verse 26...
    24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times.
    26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.
    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.”
    I believe we should understand prophecy, as far as possible, by its fulfilment, OT prophecy may be fulfilled in the OT (or in intertestamental history), but in this case,as it concerns Messiah, we should look in the NT.
    We know Jesus' ministry continued for about 3 years, which is after the 69th week, but in the middle of the 70th week. That agrees perfectly with: after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself.
    We know also that the city & the sanctuary were not destroyed within that 70th week, but about 35 years later. That, of course, is after threescore and two weeks. Jesus prophesied that dreadful event in his Olivet prophecy. Mat. 24, Mark 13 & Luke 21, & at other times towards the end of his ministry.
    Also the people of the prince that shall come did destroy the city and the sanctuary. Titus & his Roman legions. “Flood” does not necessarily mean a watery deluge, but an overwhelming army. e.g. Isa. 59:19 History records the desolations.
    Before I leave v. 26 I will point out that the “the” occurring twice in “the people of the prince that shall come” is the definite article, indicating specific people & a specific prince, identified as “shall come” & recognised by their actions. Further, “the city and the sanctuary” are previously identified & prayed for – Jerusalem & the temple. Dan. 9:16-19
    An extraordinary aspect of the prophecy is the despite Daniel's wonderful & faithful prayer, the answer includes destruction of the city & the sanctuary, NOT the everlasting political blessings prophesied by other prophets. e.g. Isa. 1:24-28 Yet Gabriel declares:
    Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    Once Messiah has completed his reconciliatory work, the city & the sanctuary are no longer included in God's prophetic purposes. As he shouted from the cross “It is FINISHED!”
    Judgement of those who rejected their Messiah was included in God's prophecy of the Messiah in Deut. 18:18-19. It was also stated in the closing chapter of the OT. Mal.4:4-6
    In Acts 3, when Messiah has come & fulfilled his saving work “to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness,” Peter repeats Moses' warning:
    22 For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
    23 And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
    24 Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.
    25 Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.
    26 Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.
    Peter speaks of “these days.” God graciously allowed time for repentance, before that destruction would take place. Jesus warned “this generation” while Hebrews, quoting Psalm 95, warns of 40 years. 40 days was more than enough for Nineveh.
    ===================
    So to verse 27:
    And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
    Note Dan. 9:4:
    And I prayed unto the LORD my God, and made my confession, and said, O Lord, the great and dreadful God, keeping the covenant and mercy to them that love him, and to them that keep his commandments;
    It is God who keeps the covenant. He makes the covenant, for the mercy & blessing of those who love him & keep his commandments. The word “covenant” occurs about 300 times in Scripture, often the synonym “testament” is used in the Gospels & Epistles. The concept of God's covenant relationship with the believer is a theme that runs throughout Scripture. A special aspect of the covenant is detailed in Lev. 26:
    9 For I will have respect unto you, and make you fruitful, and multiply you, and establish my covenant with you.
    10 And ye shall eat old store, and bring forth the old because of the new.
    11 And I will set my tabernacle among you: and my soul shall not abhor you.
    12 And I will walk among you, and will be your God, and ye shall be my people.
    Note vs.11-12. That promise is repeated many times in Scripture, & is to be perfectly fulfilled in the NH&NE:
    Rev. 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
    In the Daniel 9 context, Messiah is the primary subject, who will complete God's purposes upon thy people and upon thy holy city. Messiah – God the Son – confirms the covenant. He does this by becoming the surety for God's people, by his incarnation under the covenant strictures, & fulfilling every detail of God's requirements for man under the covenant. The old covenant was based on laws that demanded perfect obedience. Deu. 27:26 While God provided sacrifices for sin, & accepted imperfect obedience, the perfect sacrifice of Christ was needed to fulfil the terms of the covenant from man's side.
    Daniel 9 begins with reference to Jeremiah's 70 year prophecy (Jer. 29). In Jer. 31 we see prophecy concerning 2 covenants, including the glorious prophecy of a new covenant. Jer. 31:31-34
    31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:
    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
    34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
    It is worthwhile quoting that old covenant from Exodus 19:
    5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:
    6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.
    7 And Moses came and called for the elders of the people, and laid before their faces all these words which the LORD commanded him.
    8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that the LORD hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto the LORD.
    That covenant was ratified with blood:
    Exo. 24:6 And Moses took half of the blood, and put it in basons; and half of the blood he sprinkled on the altar.
    7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the LORD hath said will we do, and be obedient.
    8 And Moses took the blood, and sprinkled it on the people, and said, Behold the blood of the covenant, which the LORD hath made with you concerning all these words.
    Jesus makes the new covenant/testament in his own blood at Calvary. Hebrews takes up the prophecy in Jer. 31 in Heb. 8, showing how under the new covenant, the law is within & effected by God the Holy Spirit in the hearts of his people. Heb. 8:10 The old covenant was confirmed by Jesus' perfect obedience, & ended at Calvary. During the final, 70th “week”, from Jesus' baptism to 3 1/2 years after Calvary Jesus was confirming the old covenant with those who received him, & making the new & everlasting covenant in his own blood. The Apostolic Gospel was indeed confirmed with many during that 70th week, 3,000 on the day of Pentecost, & 5,000 a few days later. Before the martyrdom of Stephen, the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith. The old covenant was powerless, because it required the obedience of man, whereas the new covenant is effective, as it is based on Jesus' perfect obedience. The covenant was confirmed & superceded at Calvary.
    Once Jesus finished his saving work, the old covenant was ready to vanish away. Heb. 8:13. The focus of the old covenant, the temple with all its rituals & sacrifices was redundant. It did indeed vanish away before the generation that rejected their Messiah had passed. Mat. 24:34
    I'll give Paul the last word:
    Gal. 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:
    14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
    15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
    16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
    17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
    Surely Paul was aware of Dan. 9:27 when he wrote: the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
    All that remained for those who rejected their Messiah was the prophesied desolation.

     
  8. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Comment On Current Debate   

    ​You will have seen from my last full contribution to the debate that Scripture teaches that all believers enjoy the status of everlasting righteousness - the righteousness of faith. See e.g. Romans 4. Whichever human ruler, beast, Pope, Islamist, President, etc, is of no consequence - The LORD is King. e.g. Psalm 97. Just read the Psalms & it is abundantly clear:
    1 The LORD reigneth; let the earth rejoice; let the multitude of isles be glad thereof. 
    2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgment are the habitation of his throne.
    ....
    12 Rejoice in the LORD, ye righteous; and give thanks at the remembrance of his holiness.
    I hope that the implied dispensational teaching doesn't conflict with the clear teaching of Scripture. I am trying to avoid that conflict as it would sidetrack the debate. 
    I believe we can extend the concept of regeneration back in time, so that all the redeemed are children of God - born again by the Holy Spirit. Exo. 13:15  Deu. 14:1-2  Eze. 16:21  In many places throughout Scripture God refers to "my people." That is a concept we will come to when we discuss the covenant. 
     
     
       
  9. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Palindrome   

    ​Sorry but we are English & use the date format ddmmyy - 10515, etc
  10. Covenanter added a post in a topic: I have a Bible question   

    The death & burial of Moses is in Deut. 34.
    Moses & Elijah appeared with Jesus on the transfiguration mount. Mat. 17
    The 2 witnesses appear in Rev. 11, where John sees the destruction of Jerusalem. They are identified by the descriptions of their actions - Moses & Elijah, representing the Law & the Prophets by which the Jewish leaders of Jesus' time were condemned in his parable of the rich man & Lazarus. Luke 16:27-31 
    I tend to think therefore that the witnesses are the OT Scriptures, rather than specific OT people returned to earth. 
     
  11. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Revelation chapter 19-22 Study.   

    How many second comings & judgements are there? Where do they fit in your scheme of things? 
     
  12. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Palindrome   

    Live dirt, up a side-track carted, is a putrid evil.
    A man, a plan, a canal, Panama!
  13. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Debate - Prophecy in Daniel 9   

    The simple answer is that Gabriel is speaking to Daniel, but any message to a prophet is also for the people he serves, & as the product is Scripture, it is for all God's people to read & understand, & also to apply as appropriate. 
  14. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Debate - Prophecy in Daniel 9   

    ​See Dan. 9:21-23 
     
  15. Covenanter added a post in a topic: Comment On Current Debate   

    Another deliberate misquote, or misunderstanding of straightforward grammar, this time against Brother David. He quoted the Scripture exactly, in quotes and italics, and added"existing" in his comment to indicate that the "the" implied grammatically an existing covenant.