I'm going to bypass all of the references to people's habits and intelligence and just answer the question.
1. All Christians are human. They are sinners, saved by grace that came by the way of the substitutionary atonement of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary and His resurrection.
2. Are you human? I think so, because it is very human to look toward the authority in the church (or really any other place) and to examine them for flaws to help one feel better about one's self.
3. Are you praying for your pastor? It seems that you might post differently if you are. You either imply that your pastor is sinful ,serving inappropriately or that you don't like his manners as they don't strike you as human enough. Not sure, but either way, you need to be praying for your heart concerning your pastor and pray for your pastor as He leads the church.
Full disclosure: I am truly human, born to a human (who was also a Pastor), married to a human (who is a Pastor) and sister in law to a human (who is a Pastor) all of whom I pray for, and all of whom are exemplary, yet human, in human and spiritual matters.
Only Barney the dinosaur defines family as "a family is people and a family is love, that's a family, they come in all different sizes and different shapes, but mine's just right for me, yeah mine's just right for me".
The Bible, the Word of God, God's very breathed words on paper tells us that a family is established when a man leaves his mother and father and a woman leaves her father and mother and they make a covenant binding them together as husband and wife.
Your reasoning is interesting, but faulty. Two woman can not be man and wife. Despite the fact you know them and are willing to overlook and to justify their sin as a family does not make them a family.
As to the church, if these ladies were to want to join your church, they might not understand the commitment they are asking to make any more than they understand the commitment of marriage. (You can say it is legal all you want, but so is abortion...neither is righteous. Legal does not equal godly.) My church would definitely encourage them toward holy living. (The act of fornication is not the only disqualifier here. The children are being taught to honor their mother and mother. That is not the first commandment with promise. Furthermore they are being taught that rebelling against God's order is just fine because everyone is nice together.)
I hope you can begin to separate your thoughts on things from what God actually says. Our purpose is to bring glory to God. Knowingly approving of sin in the lives of people (who may not even be believers) is not a manner in which we can glorify God.
You wonder what the church should do? Teach and preach the Word. Lots of time sin has horrible consequences that prevent people from wanting to repent and make things right. These women have created a mess with their sin. When they repent, they will have the difficult time of separating things in a Christ honoring manner. Sin and its consequences are not usually easy to deal with. However, we are not to do what is easy, we are to do what is right.
Your posts seem to ask how the church should reach them. The same way we reach every sinner. Win them to the Lord. These ladies are living sinfully. Period. You seem to know them. Have you talked to them about their salvation? Have you let them know their actions are against God's order? Or is this just an academic exercise on your part? Just wondering.
To the OP:
Many things in life will not be chapter and verse, but you will have to use principles to determine how your family will operate. For example, are electronic games sinful? I know some families who will not let their children use electronics for games and others who will. Each has a principle that they use for their family.
I think the bigger question is "Am I capitulating because I want to keep my kids happy since I always say no, or am I allowing this because I truly find it childish and harmless and it will be a fun time for my son and me.?"
You indicated both are true for you. Then your parents call you out on it, seemingly ironically.
You need to decide what works for your family and go with that. You do need to consider the testimony value, as well as the understanding your child has about your family rules and the faith from which they stem. (At this age your child may not even be saved and should just OBey because it is your family's rules rather than in OBedience to the Bible principles about worldliness.
For our home, and our community, the mohawk style is definitely part of the "I need to stand out" "I'm different than you" "I don't conform" culture, so the Mohawk would not be a hairstyle we would be sporting or supporting. You need to consider where you live and how things are perceived.
As to the brother with the mohawk, welcome. I'm glad that you are doing what you feel is a Biblical reminder of your inner man. We have young people in our community who tattoo themselves with Scripture references and phrases for the same purpose as your hair. While I don't feel either is the best approach in my area of the country, I at least can say these people are trying to be spiritually alert day to day which is a great start.
What an interesting range of opinions I have just read.
Full disclosure: My experience includes attending Christian schools and public schools of variant sizes and quality. My undergraduate and graduate degrees are in education and Christian education respectively. My "career", if you will, has been as a teacher and administrator of Christian schools with a stint as a home school mom mixed in between.
I believe God leads parents to train up children in the way they should go. I believe that the authority of the home is extended to whatever learning institution they select be it private, secular, Christian, government or home. As such, it is imperative that the parents have an awareness and astuteness and an openness to the Spirit of God's leadership in their lives to select the right setting for their particular student and to continue to monitor the appropriateness of the setting in the areas of academics, spiritual growth and influence as well as the social influences.
For those selecting public schooling, you have the challenge to watch not just the content of the materials taught by your child's school, but also the methodology and reasoning behind the methodology. (For example, the ability of students to determine their own correct answer through reasoning. Common core is a big factor in promoting this line of methodology.) Additionally, the social issues and the acceptance of every behavior as equally prudent has overlying and underlying influence on your child. Add to that the friends who may not hold your values who are exposing your children to music, language, programming and internet/social media that you may not want in your child's heart and mind.
For those selecting Christian schooling, you have the challenge of watching the exact same things. However, your selection of Christian schooling will make some aspects of that watch a bit easier. You should have teachers and administrators who share your goals if you have selected well. You should have materials that teach academics within the light of God's Word and His perspective and methodology that recognizes truth as an absolute. You will still have to watch the friends and social issues and exposure to the world because Christian schools are not a guarantee that every student is a Christian. It is the program that is designed to put forth Christian values and world views and perspective. The teachers, by and large, will love and pray for your children and be committed to supporting the home. (Yes, there are exceptions to this. Teachers are sinners saved by grace, or still in sin no matter where they are teaching. Believers can be backslidden in the the heart and seem fine on the exterior. However, most Christian schools do screen for this carefully, and most teachers come to the Christian school at a much lower pay scale with less benefits for the ability to influence kids for the Lord and His work.)
For those choosing to home school you have the challenge of watching the same things. You bring your children to church and those very same influences can rest in the hearts and minds of children who attend. And, shockingly, the appetite for the world can reside even within the hearts and desires of your own children without your knowledge.
I don't want to get in the "you make us feel less spiritual when you say your school choice is better than mine" and "private school is for rich kids" aspect of the discussion. You have your views. I have mine. Each of us are influenced by our own experiences and OBservations.
No one perfect curriculum exists for everyone. No one perfect setting is for everyone--not even home school. Pray for guidance, get the facts (not anecdotes), and watch your kids. No one will do that like you can as you lean on the Lord.
Thanks for the other ideas for browsers.
Thanks also for the discussion about consistency. My point originally was simply that we have a chance to voice our opinion and be heard at a time the company is actually listening because of the amount of press coverage.
Further, this man was ousted. If you followed the progression of the story from the beginning, you will see how public opinion and commentary stirred the company to "accept" his "resignation" or in other people's terminology, his ousting.
Hi. In response to Mozilla's ousting of the CEO based on a donation he made personally to a pro marriage cause, I have deleted all Mozilla and Firefox products from all of my computers and devices. Additionally, I left them feedback to alert them that their intolerance is the reason I have migrated to Chrome.
I want to encourage everyone to do the same. (Not move to Chrome necessarily, but to delete Firefox and use something in its place.) In life we get very few chances to have our voice be heard by the big companies, but here is our chance to make our voices. heard.
I agree with the Scripture quoted above.
Here's the thing in my opinion, when we stand on principles we know what the answer will be without quantifying it. When we stand on the poor people whose wives deserted them, we are always called upon to compromise on the principles. It is sad that someone had a wife that rendered him unable to fulfill the qualifications of deacon or pastor. However, that does not render them useless in the church or unable to serve in other capacities. I have found in these types of discussions, we tend to measure our answers with the anecdotal perfect man whose wife was a horrible ungodly deserter, as well as the idea that there are only two things a man can do within a church. My church has divorced people who go on visitation and help the pastor in various ways, they just don't serve as deacons. As a matter of fact, they are so busy serving the Lord, they don't seem to ever mind that their divorce (most of which occurred prior to their salvation) keeps them from being a deacon.
You have to scoot the bull's eye dot thing on the big square on the left over to get the color, then hit check. I change my color every time I come on. I like it even better than when we had the snow thing on the top of the page a year or so ago.
If you read Bro. Matt's signature, you will see that he says to change your color use the paintbrush icon in the top right corner. So, I do change it. I just wondered if anyone else did it and what color they used. :)
KJVKay, is it possible that since you have not been involved in church for several months that you are confusing what churches are actually saying with what you are hearing on TV and radio (as replacements for the months that you have been ill and moving). I personally know that on the OBL board you have found nothing but love and compassion and friendship. It is shocking for me to read these words from you. I'm wondering if you are aware that most IFB churches proclaim the Word of God and its truths rather than a political agenda. Love does not mean capitulation. It is my love for you that propels me to say that I think you are mistaken in your assessment of local churches. It is not compassionate to allow someone to live in sin and miss out on the opportunity to be close to the Lord and find the joy and peace that He brings. I'm sure if someone is a thief, and the pastor preaches about honesty, no one would say that the church lacks compassion. In fact, you'd say that the pastor is standing for truth. By the same token, if a pastor preaches what God says about any type of sin, we do not say the church lacks love. Didn't your church help you move? That was loving and compassionate, right? Finally, I am lovingly, kindly suggesting that you get in the Word of God rather than TV ministries and that you listen to preaching from God's Word regularly in a local church.
Well, Jerry, it seems we have beat the horses to death. I am an active participant in Christian education and a firm believer in its value. I concur that a spiritual education and a spiritual view of the world is invaluable. Thanks for your time and input in the discussion. The only place we disagree is to dogmatically call public schooling a sin. I leave it to us to disagree on this point and agree on many others. Hope you have great services tomorrow. :)