At the same time however, a lot of churches can do that. In my family we were raised IFB , and what we were taught about conversion most of the time was wrong. One of my brothers was a false convert for years, baptized and everything, until he came to me about it, and we went through the Scriptures for the better part of an hour, and prayed, God saved him. Every denomination has their doctrinal mix-ups. Presbyterians (at least the orthodox ones, there are some crazies in there, but there are crazies in IFB as well, to be fair.) do hold an orthodox position of the requirements of salvation, being faith and repentance toward God. The Westminster Confession and Catechism teach it at least.
I was just using Presbyterian as an example, for I know some very Godly Presbyterians. There are also Methodists (we sing a lot of their hymns, after all, don't want to leave them out.) Episcopalians and many people in other denominations that do hold to the essentials of the faith, and that is salvation by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone, though they differ on the grounds of paedobaptism. Are there extremists? Yes. Are there false teachers? Yes. But they are in ever denomination.
It just seems there was a bit of elitism in some of the statements, so I just wanted to provide some food for though.
But, I was just reading over the old topic, and just kinda wanted to mention that method of Baptism doesn't necessarily prove whether or not one is following Jesus or is converted. The issue of Paedo v. Credo baptism is a matter of theological outlook, and how one views the covenants, not how one views Jesus.
I'm a credobaptist, but a Presbyterian can be just as Christian as I am, even though we disagree, because we're not right in all areas either, and it might be humbling for us to remember that.
You typically want to grab this tin that reads: coffee.
If you carefully follow the instructions below you can succeed in making the most magnificent beverage God gave to us.
You will need:
2-4 scoops, ground black coffee
8-12 oz of cold water.
1 coffee filter
1 coffee pot
1 coffee mug
2 scoops of non-dairy, or a glub of dairy creamer (optional)
1-3 packets of sugar or artificial sweetener (optional)
Just a few more simple steps!
Put the coffee grounds into the coffee filter, if you're making a larger pot, you want at least four scoops. Colombian is the preferred type, but Arabica or any other is perfectly acceptable.
Once the grounds are placed into the coffee filter, and the filter is placed into the basket of the coffee maker, you can apply the water into the machine at the appropriate junction.
The most crucial step is as follows, while most of the steps in this are optional, this one is not. You must locate and activate the power switch on the coffee maker.
The coffee will take a few minutes to brew, and once it is done it is ready to be served in the coffee mug with or without the optional enhancements.
In the past few years my understanding of theology and doctrine has shifted massively from what I grew up under due to some studies I have done through the Bible. I let go of Sunday school myths that we may have all heard, and tried to understand what the Bible really said. In this process, I've not always been the nicest person.
I can think when I came to my particular soteriology shift. After dabbling in Finney and semi-Pelagianism for awhile, I came to embrace a view based on what I understand of Scripture that is the total opposite of that. When I did, I was a major jerk. I shoved my theology down anyone who would listen's throat as I read more books and tried to understand as much as I could about the topic. Like any overzealous 18-year-old, I messed up big time, and I regret it so much more than that. I was a theology jerk, and I was tearing down people with something that was supposed to build them up.
You ever feel like this? What's something you've maybe taken too far?
Well, you mostly have me right, I don't agree with women in organized competitive sports period. Now, I do not mind some playing some for fun, like volleyball or tennis,
(just an example, not making a rule out of it) for instance, or something that is fairly easy, sure. I guess that's fine. But I disagree with organized competitive sports, not sports in general, but organized competitive sports.
I'm trying to clear things up a bit, glad it's working so far.
I would consider football (big time) hockey, some extreme basketball, softball, and others that are often extremely physical and hard to be rigorous. God told man to work by the sweat of his face, and most would consider hard physical work to be a thing that is for men. God set it up that way, the same way we consider childcare primarily a woman's specialty because it was what God gifted them with the ability to do, though both sexes are capable of handling children. There is some work that women are not designed to do, that is why God gave the job to men, and there are some jobs that men are not designed to do that is why God designed it for women. If there is to be clear distinction between the two, I would classify rigorous work for men, for their endurance level for certain things is higher. Now this is not a universal reality, there are some exceptions in which women can do things, but it all goes back to the question does it display their God-given role and glorify God? Apply that to organized sports.
Okay, good point. Let's add on to my previous question: Can practically display something, and glorify God with it? You may not be able to teach all of those biblical principles by playing the violin, true. But you can glorify God directly with a violin in a modest, feminine, manner. I've yet to see someone glorify God by playing female competitive organized sports.
Maybe this is a little extreme, but how feminine and modest does this look? (From and Independent Baptist College Website)
Straw man. I never said that nor anything I said could possibly mean that. I believe exercise is important for both sexes, but I do not believe in organized rigorous sports for women. There are all kinds of forms of exercise that are not organized sports. My argument is not against young women playing games, I have no problem with them playing games and staying fit, in fact I would support and encourage them to stay fit, God gave us bodies to be good stewards over them, but He expects us to be good stewards within the bounds of how He has commanded us to act and to demonstrate.
For instance would it be right for me to be a professional athlete and play on Sunday? I'm keeping my body fit, and supporting my family at the same time, being a good steward of my body and my family, but I am also not in church worshiping the Lord. To be a steward of my body I would be violating the practice of corporate worship which God expects out of His people. Also, I would not be demonstrating my respect for God by ignoring corporate worship and to the world would be a hypocrite. However, I could also exercise regularly to stay fit and get a regular job to support my family, and be faithful to services at my local assembly and be a good steward in the bounds God has given me.
Let me just state this clearly so there is no misunderstanding. I DO believe that men and women B OT H are to be fit. But I DO N OT believe that women should be fit by practicing unfeminine behavior.
I respectfully disagree. Our practical theology is very important to get right, for the world watches what we practice. If worldly people are watching what we do and that is somehow to be a testimony of what we believe and Who we believe in, then we must take extreme care to present a Biblical belief system in our practice. I would consider something like "what church service do you put your tithe in" to be a gnat to strain at. This matter is something completely different, this is something that is openly displayed towards all, so we must be sure that what we do is right. Discussion on something like this is healthy and causes us to look to our position and understand the biblical concepts behind them, if any, and examine the subject in light of what the Bible teaches. If our practice lines up with Biblical teaching, then it displays a Biblical truth practically. If it does not line up with the Bible, then why do we do it?
The Bible teaches:
"That they may teach the young women to be s ob er, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, ob edie nt to their own husbands, that the word of God be n ot blasphemed." - Titus 2:4-5
So we must ask the question, does sports teach young women to love their husbands? Does it teach them to love their children? Does it teach them to be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, and obedient to their own husbands? This is what we must ask. What is right with women playing organized sports? What does the Bible teach women to do and demonstrate and does this display that practically?
"In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and s ob riety; n ot with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;" - 1 Tim ot hy 2:9
Now we must ask the question, does sports teach or display that women should wear modest apparel? Does it teach or display shamefacedness? Does it teach or display sobriety? Does this display or teach practically this Biblical truth?
The Lord's Sovereign mercies are often a mystery to us down here, who see them as dark trials, but these shadowy hours are transformed into pure gold in eternity. He is merciful in allowing suffering for our greater, eternal good.