*Independent Fundamental Baptist
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About beameup

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    Senior Member
  • Birthday 12/23/1942

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  • Are you IFB? Yes


  • Bio I was saved in a Conservative Baptist church in 1962 and attended BIOLA (Bible Institute of Los Angeles) shortly thereafter. I agree, for the most part, with Dr. Peter Ruckman; however, I am not a "Ruckmanite", per se.

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  1. The concept of "replacement" has it's origins in the 4th Century Catholic Church.  As well, the doctrines of "symbolization" and "allegoricalization," of Scripture were developed, along with "preterism"... all 1,700 year old Catholic "doctrines".  The doctrine of the purely "spiritualization" of the "kingdom", rather than taking God's Word LITERALLY, is the result.  The majority of Christendom adopts these "doctrines", even many "Baptists". I ask Catholics why should Jesus ever even return to the earth, since the "kingdom" is "spiritual" and "heavenly" rather than a literal earthly Kingdom ruled by Jews?  Perhaps you don't differentiate between the promises made to Israel and those Pauline doctrines concerning the Body of Christ?   For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.  Romans 11:25-27  δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω                   If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck.
  2. Real simple, and most here could easily answer that I'm sure.  However, if you are coming from a (semi) "replacement" position, no answer would satisfy you.  Let's just say that there were 3 disciples that "witnessed" the Glorified Christ before his crucifixion... I'll leave it to you to find the reference. BTW, I would venture to say that the "replacement" position is by far the most dominant position in Christendom... yes, even among many "Baptists".  I believe that this is an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist forum, not an Independent Reformed Baptist or an Independent Covenant Baptist forum. δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω                                                                                                                                                                     Galatians 5:9
  3. That is precisely the question that was posed at the formation of the Catholic Church in the 4th Century.  Their answer was that the "Kingdom of God" was the Catholic Church and that Jesus was "ruling from heaven".  This is the "logic" or "rationale" of Replacement Theology.  You simply use "human logic" to conclude that God has "replaced" Israel (and all the O.T. prophecies of the Kingdom) with "the Church".... problem solved. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.  2 Peter 3:8 δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω
  4. The Kingdom

    Back to the OP: [Angel to Mary] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name Jesus. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.  Luke 1:31-33 [the Twelve to Jesus] When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?  Acts 1:6 [Peter's sermon to Israel]  And now, brethren, I wot that through ignorance ye did it [killed your Messiah], as did also your rulers. But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled. Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;  And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.  Acts 3:17-21 
  5.  You are mischaracterizing.  The Kingdom was promised to Israel.  The Gospel of Grace has no "message" of a Kingdom on earth, in order to be saved. Ephesians 2:8-9, 1 Cor 15 The false teaching is telling someone that they are "Spiritual Israel" and that God's Kingdom is already on the earth, and Jesus is "ruling from heaven". Of course Paul went to the synagogue, because that was the ekklesia (assembly, often translated "church"), because there was no official "meeting place" for Gentiles (except the pagan temples).  Eventually, "house churches" were established, but records exist that show that many synagogues were "mixed" (ie: included some Yeshua believers) as late as the 3rd century. Again, it is wrong to present the Gospel to sinners by informing them that they must believe in and will belong to a Kingdom on the earth.  That is why the "Lord's Prayer" is unnecessary, as it was a message that was presented to Israel (see Mat 6, Luke 11).  The "destiny" of the Body of Christ is HEAVEN.  The "Earthly Kingdom" (still) belongs to Israel. (see Isa 60, 61, 62 etc.) Apparently, some are essentially calling Paul a LIAR, because he tells us that the Gospel revealed to him was revealed directly to him by Jesus and that hitherto, it had been a mystery that was unknown. Romans 16:25, Col 1:26  But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.  Galatians 1:11-12 BTW, "those that are afar off" is a reference to the Jewish diaspora.  Peter's message was directed at Jews and concerned the Kingdom. δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω    
  6. The Kingdom

    For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all. James 2:10 Christ lived and died "under the law".  John the Baptist was beheaded long before the crucifixion.  Jesus never "broke the Law" (of Moses). δέ εἰ τὶς ἀγνοέω ἀγνοέω
  7. The Kingdom

    Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.  Matthew 5:17
  8. The Kingdom

    But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.  Galatians 4:4-5  Jesus' ministry was "under the Law".   Some have forgotten that Jesus (much) later appeared to Paul and gave him the revelation of the mystery, a mystery that until that time was unknown and not revealed in the O.T. How that by revelation he [Jesus] made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit; That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel: Eph 3:3-6 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:  Col 1:26-27   Now, during the Kingdom (Millennial Reign of Messiah) - during the next "dispensation" - the Gentiles on the Earth will come to Israel to worship the King.  Israel will then be "a light unto the Gentiles". And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.  Isa 49:6
  9. "Mark Them"

    Paul: Now I beseech you, brethren, mark [ skopeō ] them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.  Romans 16:17 Paul: Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark [ skopeō ] them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.  Philemon 3:17 skopeō - to look at, observe, contemplate  [as in to "scope out", observe] Note: skopeō does not mean vile personal, or verbally abusive attacks and name-calling Luke 6:14b "out of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaks."
  10. The Kingdom

    I do understand that "Reformed" - "Covenant" Theology does lead one to believe that the "Church" has "replaced" Israel, and hence, that all of Israel's promises now belong to the "Church".  I really do understand your position. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. Romans 10:4-5   But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise - [Romans 10:6a]  But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. - [Romans 10:8-9] 
  11. The Kingdom

    Please read chapters 60-61-62 of Isaiah to get the "big picture". The ENTIRE Nation of Israel will be "Priests of the LORD"  - Isaiah 61:6 But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves.  
  12. The Kingdom

    Isaiah 61:4-7 And they shall build the old wastes, they shall raise up the former desolations, and they shall repair the waste cities, the desolations of many generations. And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers. But ye shall be named the Priests of the LORD: men shall call you the Ministers of our God: ye shall eat the riches of the Gentiles, and in their glory shall ye boast yourselves. For your shame ye shall have double; and for confusion they shall rejoice in their portion: therefore in their land they shall possess the double: everlasting joy shall be unto them. Isaiah 60, 61, 62 concern the Kingdom of God on the earth, located in Israel   Isaiah 61:1-2a The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD -- Jesus announcing that the Kingdom of God was "at hand". Luke 4:18-19  
  13. Thanks. That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.  Romans 15:16 And Paul was a minister to the uncircumcision --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began  Romans 16:25 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ) Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;  Ephesians 3:3-5
  14. I agree with most of what you are saying here.  There was a one-year "grace period" from the resurrection to the stoning of Stephen due to the "ignorance" of Israel.  After that, Paul was saved and the gospel of grace through faith alone was gradually revealed to Paul over a period of years.  The gospel announcing the coming King and Kingdom "died out" due to lack of interest on the part of national Israel.  However, the Gospels contain information and instructions for some yet-future Israeli Jews who will be believers in the Kingdom (see Mt. 24 & 25, for example).  I personally would place Revelation in this category as well.  As for the "olive tree" analogy, it all depends on how you interpret the meaning of: "partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree" (ie: how far you carry the "analogy" in Romans 11:17-21). Romans 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again. God bless
  15. Peter is identified as the apostle to the circumcision [Gal 2:7].  He wrote to his brethren.  In this case, Peter is reminded of the promise of God to Israel: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. Exodus 19:6  Had Israel repented as a Nation, this would have literally been fulfilled at that time upon Messiah's return. "Assuming" that there is only one group of "elect" and that that is the Body of Christ, and that the entire N.T. is addressed only to "the church" is an error that dates back to the 4th Century Catholic Church.  God has a separate "agenda" for Israel and it will come to pass when God sets up his earthly Kingdom. But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me [Paul], as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;  Galatians 2:7 1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers [parepidēmos] scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, parepidēmos - one who comes from a foreign country into a city or land to reside there by the side of the natives - these are the diaspora of Jews he is writing to.