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Pastor Scott Markle

Independent Fundamental Baptist
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  1. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Alan in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Thank you for your in-depth study and analysis on the whole article; particularly on the author's usage of a corrupt manuscript, and a distortion of the Greek language,  in order to promote a false teaching. Is it no wonder that some of God's saints are confused when they study under these false teachers?
     
  2. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Thank you for this explanation, it makes much more sense to me, now. I see that, the article writer was inconsistent and biased, it appears. Thank you for clearing up the confusion that I had from his, page!
  3. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Jim_Alaska in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    In his first main point, the author of the article presented the following:
                   (https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/)
    In the first paragraph of this point, the author made two significantly firm assertions, as follows: (emboldening in the quotes was added by Pastor Scott Markle)
         (1)  "The 'given ones' in the Gospel of John always refer to the JEWISH disciples of Jesus back in his time."
         (2)  "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples." 
    Then the author of the article focused upon our Lord Jesus Christ's prayer in John 17 in order to support his assertions.   I myself have three points of conflict with this presentation:
    In the first place --
    In order to define the phrase, "all that the Father giveth me," in John 6:37, the author of the article focused completely upon John 17.  Yet he did not focus upon the immediate context of John 6:35-65 at all.  However, it would seem to me that the FIRST place which we should consider in order to define a phrase is the immediate context itself, if there is anything therein to aid our understanding.  So then, is there anything in the immediate context of John 6:35-65 to aid us in understanding the meaning for the opening phrase of John 6:37 -- "All that the Father giveth me"? 
    With this phrase of John 6:37 our Lord Jesus Christ spoke concerning the relationship of God the Father toward those who will come unto the Lord Jesus Christ through faith as Savior.  In two other verses of the immediate context, our Lord Jesus Christ also spoke concerning this relationship.  These two verses are John 6:44-45, wherein our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.  Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." 
    Through each of these three verses individually (John 6:37, John 6:44, and John 6:45), we are taught a sequence of events that lead unto an individual's coming unto Christ.
    Through John 6:37 we learn:
         1.  God the Father gives certain individuals unto God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
         2.  All whom God the Father gives unto God the Son do indeed come unto God the Son.
         3.  God the Son will in no wise cast out any who come unto Him.
    Through John 6:44 we learn:
         1.  God the Father must draw an individual unto God the Son in order for an individual to have the ability to come unto the Son.
         2.  God the Son will raise up at the last day any who who come unto Him.
    Through John 6:45 we learn:
         1.  God the Father engages in a work of teaching unto all, in order to teach them of their need for God the Son as Savior.
         2.  Some individuals listen unto and learn from God the Father's teaching concerning God the Son as Savior.
         3.  Every individual who listens unto and learns from God the Father's teaching does indeed come unto God the Son.
    Now, when we bring the teaching of these three individual verses together, we may come to a better contextual understanding concerning God the Father's work in relation to those who come unto the Lord Jesus Christ through faith as Savior.  First, we recognize that John 6:45 is provided as an explanation for John 6:44; therefore, John 6:45 reveals how and whom God the Father draws unto God the Son.  Indeed, God the Father draws through engaging in a work of teaching; and God the Father engages in this drawing work of teaching upon ALL individuals.  Yet all do NOT come unto God the Son through faith.  Rather, only those individuals who listen unto and learn from God the Father's drawing work of teaching actually come unto God the Son.  On the other hand, EVERY SINGLE ONE who listens unto and learns from God the Father's drawing work of teaching DO INDEED come unto God the Son.  As such, these individuals would be equivalent unto those whom God the Father GIVES unto God the Son; for ALL whom God the Father gives unto God the Son DO INDEED come unto God the Son.  Even so, we now can compile the sequence from all three verses, as follows:
         1.  God the Father draws all individuals unto God the Son through a work of teaching to teach them of their need for the Son.
         2.  Some individuals listen unto and learn from God the Father's teaching concerning God the Son as Savior.
         3.  God the Father gives unto God the Son every individual (all) who listens unto and learns from His drawing work of teaching.
         4.  All whom God the Father gives unto God the Son, because they listened unto and learned from His drawing work of teaching, DO INDEED come unto the God the Son through faith as Savior.
    Through this contextual study, we are able to discern a contextual definition for those whom God the Father gives unto God the Son (the "given ones").  The "given ones" are those who respond unto God the Father's drawing work of teaching by listening unto it and learning from it.  Now, if John 6:37 applies only unto Jewish believers during the time of our Lord's earthly ministry, then in the context John 6:44-45 must also apply ONLY unto them.  However, if John 6:44-45 applies unto both Jews and Gentiles both during the time of our Lord's earthly ministry and today, then John 6:37 also applies unto both groups in both times.
     
    In the second place --
    The primary argument that the author of the article sought to make in his first main point is that within the context of the Gospel of John the "given ones" by God the Father ALWAYS refer unto the Jewish disciples of Jesus back in the time of His early ministry, and unto none others.  Now, it would seem to me that if the author of the article desired to demonstrate this "always" assertion for the context of the Gospel of John, he would then make reference unto EVERY time wherein the "given ones" by God the Father are referenced throughout the Gospel of John.  Yet the author of the article did NOT do this.  There are actually three passages wherein these "given ones" by God the Father are referenced.  The first of these passages is John 6:37, which is the passage under question.  The third of these passages is John 17:6, 9, 11-12, upon which the author of the article placed a significant amount of focus.  However, the second of these passages is John 10:29, unto which the author of the article made no reference whatsoever at all.  So then, let us consider this passage that the author of the article completely neglected.
    In John 10:27-30 our Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.  I and my Father are one." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  So then, who all are included among God the Son's sheep according to the context of John 10:1-30, these sheep whom God the Father gave unto God the Son?  The answer is found through two important verses within the context.  First, in John 10:9 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."  So then, God the Son's sheep are those who enter through Him as the Door of Salvation, and who are thereby saved.  Second, in John 10:16 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."  Within this context, the fold that our Lord described as "this fold" would have been the Jewish "fold."  Furthermore, those whom the Lord described as the "other sheep" would be from the Gentile "fold."  Yet our Lord indicated with the conclusion of John 10:16 that all of those sheep who would become His by entering through Him unto salvation, both from the Jewish "fold" and the Gentile "fold," would become ONE fold of saved sheep with ONE Shepherd, God the Son Himself.  Even so, within this context God the Son's sheep, as referenced in John 10:27-30, would include ALL who enter in and are saved by God the Son through faith, not just the Jewish disciples during the time of our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry.  So then, we learn that the author of the article is simply not accurate when he asserts that within the context of the Gospel of John the "given ones" by God the Father ALWAYS refer unto the Jewish disciples of Jesus back in the time of His early ministry, and unto none others.  Furthermore, we also may take notice that John 10:27-30 also teaches eternal security through the authority and power of God unto all of God the Son's sheep, that is -- unto all of the "given ones" by God the Father.
     
    In the third place --
    The author of the article supported his assertion for his first main point by placing a significant focus upon the passage of John 17:6, 9, 11-12.  First, the author of the article asserted, "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples.  They were the ones whom the Father 'has given' to the Son."  Then the author of the article stated his evidence, "The prayer of Jesus in John 17 makes this clear." 
    Now, it is certainly accurate that in John 17:6-19 our Lord Jesus Christ was speaking specifically concerning the eleven apostles (with Judas Iscariot being excluded by our Lord's specific statement in John 17:12).  However, in this regard the author of the article presented an inconsistent progression within the context of his own position and argument.  First, he stated, "The 'given ones' in the Gospel of John always refer to the JEWISH disciples of Jesus back his time." (emphasis included in the original quote)  This statement the author of the article drew from the reference unto physical sight in John 6:36.  Thus he indicated that the "given ones" encompass all of the Jewish believers-disciples during our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, since they were the only ones who physically saw Him.  Yet then the author of the article stated, "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples.  They were the ones whom the Father 'has given' to the Son," which the author of the article supported from John 17:6-19.  Yet John 17:6-19 does not refer unto all of the Jewish believers-disciples during our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, but only refers unto the eleven apostles alone.  So then, we are compelled to ask -- Which is it; do the "given ones" by God the Father encompass all of the believers-disciples during our Lord's earthly ministry, or do the "given ones" by God the Father encompass only the eleven apostles?
    Furthermore, we should recognize that the context of John 17:6-19 is grammatically more narrow than that of the other passages.  The first reference that our Lord Jesus Christ made unto the "given ones" within His prayer of John 17 is found in John 17:6.  Yet in this verse our Lord Jesus Christ did not make reference generally unto those whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Rather, in this verse our Lord Jesus Christ made reference specifically unto a group of MEN whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Therein our Lord said, "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  As such, throughout the prayer of John 17, our Lord Jesus Christ was not necessarily speaking about all of the individuals whom God the Father had given unto Him, but was very specifically speaking about a specific group of men whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Yet in the context of John 6:37, our Lord Jesus Christ did NOT communicate that He was narrowing the "given ones" by God the Father only unto a specific group of MEN.  Rather, in John 6:37 our Lord Jesus Christ spoke more generally concerning those whom God the Father had given unto Him, even as He spoke more generally in John 10:27-30.  Thus when we seek for a Biblical comparison for John 6:37, we find that the context of John 10:1-30 serves as a far better comparison than does the context of John 17:6-19.
    (Note: The quotation of John 17:6 by the author of the article does not include this specific reference unto "the men."  Rather, his quotation of the the verse reads as follows, "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  The reason for this is because the author of the article was not quoting from the King James translation, but from some other translation.  Yet the Greek word "ἀνθρώποις" ("anthropois"), which is the plural of the Greek word meaning "man," is very specifically found in the Greek text of John 17:6.  Indeed, this Greek word is specifically found in the Received Text, as well as in the Westcott-Hort text and in the Nestle-Aland (27th ed.) text.  As such, the quotation that the author of the article employed simply came from a looser translation of the verse than that which is found in the King James translation.  In addition, that looseness in translation allowed for a distortion in the understanding of John 17:6.)
    However, the author of the article presented two more main points in his argument.  Therefore, there is yet more for us to consider.
    Sister Rose, are you following this information thus far; or do you have any questions about this information?
  4. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Jim_Alaska in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    In his first main point, the author of the article presented the following:
                   (https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/)
    In the first paragraph of this point, the author made two significantly firm assertions, as follows: (emboldening in the quotes was added by Pastor Scott Markle)
         (1)  "The 'given ones' in the Gospel of John always refer to the JEWISH disciples of Jesus back in his time."
         (2)  "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples." 
    Then the author of the article focused upon our Lord Jesus Christ's prayer in John 17 in order to support his assertions.   I myself have three points of conflict with this presentation:
    In the first place --
    In order to define the phrase, "all that the Father giveth me," in John 6:37, the author of the article focused completely upon John 17.  Yet he did not focus upon the immediate context of John 6:35-65 at all.  However, it would seem to me that the FIRST place which we should consider in order to define a phrase is the immediate context itself, if there is anything therein to aid our understanding.  So then, is there anything in the immediate context of John 6:35-65 to aid us in understanding the meaning for the opening phrase of John 6:37 -- "All that the Father giveth me"? 
    With this phrase of John 6:37 our Lord Jesus Christ spoke concerning the relationship of God the Father toward those who will come unto the Lord Jesus Christ through faith as Savior.  In two other verses of the immediate context, our Lord Jesus Christ also spoke concerning this relationship.  These two verses are John 6:44-45, wherein our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.  Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." 
    Through each of these three verses individually (John 6:37, John 6:44, and John 6:45), we are taught a sequence of events that lead unto an individual's coming unto Christ.
    Through John 6:37 we learn:
         1.  God the Father gives certain individuals unto God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
         2.  All whom God the Father gives unto God the Son do indeed come unto God the Son.
         3.  God the Son will in no wise cast out any who come unto Him.
    Through John 6:44 we learn:
         1.  God the Father must draw an individual unto God the Son in order for an individual to have the ability to come unto the Son.
         2.  God the Son will raise up at the last day any who who come unto Him.
    Through John 6:45 we learn:
         1.  God the Father engages in a work of teaching unto all, in order to teach them of their need for God the Son as Savior.
         2.  Some individuals listen unto and learn from God the Father's teaching concerning God the Son as Savior.
         3.  Every individual who listens unto and learns from God the Father's teaching does indeed come unto God the Son.
    Now, when we bring the teaching of these three individual verses together, we may come to a better contextual understanding concerning God the Father's work in relation to those who come unto the Lord Jesus Christ through faith as Savior.  First, we recognize that John 6:45 is provided as an explanation for John 6:44; therefore, John 6:45 reveals how and whom God the Father draws unto God the Son.  Indeed, God the Father draws through engaging in a work of teaching; and God the Father engages in this drawing work of teaching upon ALL individuals.  Yet all do NOT come unto God the Son through faith.  Rather, only those individuals who listen unto and learn from God the Father's drawing work of teaching actually come unto God the Son.  On the other hand, EVERY SINGLE ONE who listens unto and learns from God the Father's drawing work of teaching DO INDEED come unto God the Son.  As such, these individuals would be equivalent unto those whom God the Father GIVES unto God the Son; for ALL whom God the Father gives unto God the Son DO INDEED come unto God the Son.  Even so, we now can compile the sequence from all three verses, as follows:
         1.  God the Father draws all individuals unto God the Son through a work of teaching to teach them of their need for the Son.
         2.  Some individuals listen unto and learn from God the Father's teaching concerning God the Son as Savior.
         3.  God the Father gives unto God the Son every individual (all) who listens unto and learns from His drawing work of teaching.
         4.  All whom God the Father gives unto God the Son, because they listened unto and learned from His drawing work of teaching, DO INDEED come unto the God the Son through faith as Savior.
    Through this contextual study, we are able to discern a contextual definition for those whom God the Father gives unto God the Son (the "given ones").  The "given ones" are those who respond unto God the Father's drawing work of teaching by listening unto it and learning from it.  Now, if John 6:37 applies only unto Jewish believers during the time of our Lord's earthly ministry, then in the context John 6:44-45 must also apply ONLY unto them.  However, if John 6:44-45 applies unto both Jews and Gentiles both during the time of our Lord's earthly ministry and today, then John 6:37 also applies unto both groups in both times.
     
    In the second place --
    The primary argument that the author of the article sought to make in his first main point is that within the context of the Gospel of John the "given ones" by God the Father ALWAYS refer unto the Jewish disciples of Jesus back in the time of His early ministry, and unto none others.  Now, it would seem to me that if the author of the article desired to demonstrate this "always" assertion for the context of the Gospel of John, he would then make reference unto EVERY time wherein the "given ones" by God the Father are referenced throughout the Gospel of John.  Yet the author of the article did NOT do this.  There are actually three passages wherein these "given ones" by God the Father are referenced.  The first of these passages is John 6:37, which is the passage under question.  The third of these passages is John 17:6, 9, 11-12, upon which the author of the article placed a significant amount of focus.  However, the second of these passages is John 10:29, unto which the author of the article made no reference whatsoever at all.  So then, let us consider this passage that the author of the article completely neglected.
    In John 10:27-30 our Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.  I and my Father are one." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  So then, who all are included among God the Son's sheep according to the context of John 10:1-30, these sheep whom God the Father gave unto God the Son?  The answer is found through two important verses within the context.  First, in John 10:9 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."  So then, God the Son's sheep are those who enter through Him as the Door of Salvation, and who are thereby saved.  Second, in John 10:16 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."  Within this context, the fold that our Lord described as "this fold" would have been the Jewish "fold."  Furthermore, those whom the Lord described as the "other sheep" would be from the Gentile "fold."  Yet our Lord indicated with the conclusion of John 10:16 that all of those sheep who would become His by entering through Him unto salvation, both from the Jewish "fold" and the Gentile "fold," would become ONE fold of saved sheep with ONE Shepherd, God the Son Himself.  Even so, within this context God the Son's sheep, as referenced in John 10:27-30, would include ALL who enter in and are saved by God the Son through faith, not just the Jewish disciples during the time of our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry.  So then, we learn that the author of the article is simply not accurate when he asserts that within the context of the Gospel of John the "given ones" by God the Father ALWAYS refer unto the Jewish disciples of Jesus back in the time of His early ministry, and unto none others.  Furthermore, we also may take notice that John 10:27-30 also teaches eternal security through the authority and power of God unto all of God the Son's sheep, that is -- unto all of the "given ones" by God the Father.
     
    In the third place --
    The author of the article supported his assertion for his first main point by placing a significant focus upon the passage of John 17:6, 9, 11-12.  First, the author of the article asserted, "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples.  They were the ones whom the Father 'has given' to the Son."  Then the author of the article stated his evidence, "The prayer of Jesus in John 17 makes this clear." 
    Now, it is certainly accurate that in John 17:6-19 our Lord Jesus Christ was speaking specifically concerning the eleven apostles (with Judas Iscariot being excluded by our Lord's specific statement in John 17:12).  However, in this regard the author of the article presented an inconsistent progression within the context of his own position and argument.  First, he stated, "The 'given ones' in the Gospel of John always refer to the JEWISH disciples of Jesus back his time." (emphasis included in the original quote)  This statement the author of the article drew from the reference unto physical sight in John 6:36.  Thus he indicated that the "given ones" encompass all of the Jewish believers-disciples during our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, since they were the only ones who physically saw Him.  Yet then the author of the article stated, "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples.  They were the ones whom the Father 'has given' to the Son," which the author of the article supported from John 17:6-19.  Yet John 17:6-19 does not refer unto all of the Jewish believers-disciples during our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, but only refers unto the eleven apostles alone.  So then, we are compelled to ask -- Which is it; do the "given ones" by God the Father encompass all of the believers-disciples during our Lord's earthly ministry, or do the "given ones" by God the Father encompass only the eleven apostles?
    Furthermore, we should recognize that the context of John 17:6-19 is grammatically more narrow than that of the other passages.  The first reference that our Lord Jesus Christ made unto the "given ones" within His prayer of John 17 is found in John 17:6.  Yet in this verse our Lord Jesus Christ did not make reference generally unto those whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Rather, in this verse our Lord Jesus Christ made reference specifically unto a group of MEN whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Therein our Lord said, "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  As such, throughout the prayer of John 17, our Lord Jesus Christ was not necessarily speaking about all of the individuals whom God the Father had given unto Him, but was very specifically speaking about a specific group of men whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Yet in the context of John 6:37, our Lord Jesus Christ did NOT communicate that He was narrowing the "given ones" by God the Father only unto a specific group of MEN.  Rather, in John 6:37 our Lord Jesus Christ spoke more generally concerning those whom God the Father had given unto Him, even as He spoke more generally in John 10:27-30.  Thus when we seek for a Biblical comparison for John 6:37, we find that the context of John 10:1-30 serves as a far better comparison than does the context of John 17:6-19.
    (Note: The quotation of John 17:6 by the author of the article does not include this specific reference unto "the men."  Rather, his quotation of the the verse reads as follows, "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  The reason for this is because the author of the article was not quoting from the King James translation, but from some other translation.  Yet the Greek word "ἀνθρώποις" ("anthropois"), which is the plural of the Greek word meaning "man," is very specifically found in the Greek text of John 17:6.  Indeed, this Greek word is specifically found in the Received Text, as well as in the Westcott-Hort text and in the Nestle-Aland (27th ed.) text.  As such, the quotation that the author of the article employed simply came from a looser translation of the verse than that which is found in the King James translation.  In addition, that looseness in translation allowed for a distortion in the understanding of John 17:6.)
    However, the author of the article presented two more main points in his argument.  Therefore, there is yet more for us to consider.
    Sister Rose, are you following this information thus far; or do you have any questions about this information?
  5. Thanks
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Jim_Alaska in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    An excellent critique of this work Bro. Scott. You are spot on in asking, "which is it"? That author can't have it both ways just to suit his whims.
  6. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Jim_Alaska in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    In his first main point, the author of the article presented the following:
                   (https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/)
    In the first paragraph of this point, the author made two significantly firm assertions, as follows: (emboldening in the quotes was added by Pastor Scott Markle)
         (1)  "The 'given ones' in the Gospel of John always refer to the JEWISH disciples of Jesus back in his time."
         (2)  "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples." 
    Then the author of the article focused upon our Lord Jesus Christ's prayer in John 17 in order to support his assertions.   I myself have three points of conflict with this presentation:
    In the first place --
    In order to define the phrase, "all that the Father giveth me," in John 6:37, the author of the article focused completely upon John 17.  Yet he did not focus upon the immediate context of John 6:35-65 at all.  However, it would seem to me that the FIRST place which we should consider in order to define a phrase is the immediate context itself, if there is anything therein to aid our understanding.  So then, is there anything in the immediate context of John 6:35-65 to aid us in understanding the meaning for the opening phrase of John 6:37 -- "All that the Father giveth me"? 
    With this phrase of John 6:37 our Lord Jesus Christ spoke concerning the relationship of God the Father toward those who will come unto the Lord Jesus Christ through faith as Savior.  In two other verses of the immediate context, our Lord Jesus Christ also spoke concerning this relationship.  These two verses are John 6:44-45, wherein our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.  It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God.  Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me." 
    Through each of these three verses individually (John 6:37, John 6:44, and John 6:45), we are taught a sequence of events that lead unto an individual's coming unto Christ.
    Through John 6:37 we learn:
         1.  God the Father gives certain individuals unto God the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
         2.  All whom God the Father gives unto God the Son do indeed come unto God the Son.
         3.  God the Son will in no wise cast out any who come unto Him.
    Through John 6:44 we learn:
         1.  God the Father must draw an individual unto God the Son in order for an individual to have the ability to come unto the Son.
         2.  God the Son will raise up at the last day any who who come unto Him.
    Through John 6:45 we learn:
         1.  God the Father engages in a work of teaching unto all, in order to teach them of their need for God the Son as Savior.
         2.  Some individuals listen unto and learn from God the Father's teaching concerning God the Son as Savior.
         3.  Every individual who listens unto and learns from God the Father's teaching does indeed come unto God the Son.
    Now, when we bring the teaching of these three individual verses together, we may come to a better contextual understanding concerning God the Father's work in relation to those who come unto the Lord Jesus Christ through faith as Savior.  First, we recognize that John 6:45 is provided as an explanation for John 6:44; therefore, John 6:45 reveals how and whom God the Father draws unto God the Son.  Indeed, God the Father draws through engaging in a work of teaching; and God the Father engages in this drawing work of teaching upon ALL individuals.  Yet all do NOT come unto God the Son through faith.  Rather, only those individuals who listen unto and learn from God the Father's drawing work of teaching actually come unto God the Son.  On the other hand, EVERY SINGLE ONE who listens unto and learns from God the Father's drawing work of teaching DO INDEED come unto God the Son.  As such, these individuals would be equivalent unto those whom God the Father GIVES unto God the Son; for ALL whom God the Father gives unto God the Son DO INDEED come unto God the Son.  Even so, we now can compile the sequence from all three verses, as follows:
         1.  God the Father draws all individuals unto God the Son through a work of teaching to teach them of their need for the Son.
         2.  Some individuals listen unto and learn from God the Father's teaching concerning God the Son as Savior.
         3.  God the Father gives unto God the Son every individual (all) who listens unto and learns from His drawing work of teaching.
         4.  All whom God the Father gives unto God the Son, because they listened unto and learned from His drawing work of teaching, DO INDEED come unto the God the Son through faith as Savior.
    Through this contextual study, we are able to discern a contextual definition for those whom God the Father gives unto God the Son (the "given ones").  The "given ones" are those who respond unto God the Father's drawing work of teaching by listening unto it and learning from it.  Now, if John 6:37 applies only unto Jewish believers during the time of our Lord's earthly ministry, then in the context John 6:44-45 must also apply ONLY unto them.  However, if John 6:44-45 applies unto both Jews and Gentiles both during the time of our Lord's earthly ministry and today, then John 6:37 also applies unto both groups in both times.
     
    In the second place --
    The primary argument that the author of the article sought to make in his first main point is that within the context of the Gospel of John the "given ones" by God the Father ALWAYS refer unto the Jewish disciples of Jesus back in the time of His early ministry, and unto none others.  Now, it would seem to me that if the author of the article desired to demonstrate this "always" assertion for the context of the Gospel of John, he would then make reference unto EVERY time wherein the "given ones" by God the Father are referenced throughout the Gospel of John.  Yet the author of the article did NOT do this.  There are actually three passages wherein these "given ones" by God the Father are referenced.  The first of these passages is John 6:37, which is the passage under question.  The third of these passages is John 17:6, 9, 11-12, upon which the author of the article placed a significant amount of focus.  However, the second of these passages is John 10:29, unto which the author of the article made no reference whatsoever at all.  So then, let us consider this passage that the author of the article completely neglected.
    In John 10:27-30 our Lord Jesus Christ proclaimed, "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.  My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father’s hand.  I and my Father are one." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  So then, who all are included among God the Son's sheep according to the context of John 10:1-30, these sheep whom God the Father gave unto God the Son?  The answer is found through two important verses within the context.  First, in John 10:9 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."  So then, God the Son's sheep are those who enter through Him as the Door of Salvation, and who are thereby saved.  Second, in John 10:16 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."  Within this context, the fold that our Lord described as "this fold" would have been the Jewish "fold."  Furthermore, those whom the Lord described as the "other sheep" would be from the Gentile "fold."  Yet our Lord indicated with the conclusion of John 10:16 that all of those sheep who would become His by entering through Him unto salvation, both from the Jewish "fold" and the Gentile "fold," would become ONE fold of saved sheep with ONE Shepherd, God the Son Himself.  Even so, within this context God the Son's sheep, as referenced in John 10:27-30, would include ALL who enter in and are saved by God the Son through faith, not just the Jewish disciples during the time of our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry.  So then, we learn that the author of the article is simply not accurate when he asserts that within the context of the Gospel of John the "given ones" by God the Father ALWAYS refer unto the Jewish disciples of Jesus back in the time of His early ministry, and unto none others.  Furthermore, we also may take notice that John 10:27-30 also teaches eternal security through the authority and power of God unto all of God the Son's sheep, that is -- unto all of the "given ones" by God the Father.
     
    In the third place --
    The author of the article supported his assertion for his first main point by placing a significant focus upon the passage of John 17:6, 9, 11-12.  First, the author of the article asserted, "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples.  They were the ones whom the Father 'has given' to the Son."  Then the author of the article stated his evidence, "The prayer of Jesus in John 17 makes this clear." 
    Now, it is certainly accurate that in John 17:6-19 our Lord Jesus Christ was speaking specifically concerning the eleven apostles (with Judas Iscariot being excluded by our Lord's specific statement in John 17:12).  However, in this regard the author of the article presented an inconsistent progression within the context of his own position and argument.  First, he stated, "The 'given ones' in the Gospel of John always refer to the JEWISH disciples of Jesus back his time." (emphasis included in the original quote)  This statement the author of the article drew from the reference unto physical sight in John 6:36.  Thus he indicated that the "given ones" encompass all of the Jewish believers-disciples during our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, since they were the only ones who physically saw Him.  Yet then the author of the article stated, "Within the context of the Gospel of John the 'given ones' always refer to the disciples.  They were the ones whom the Father 'has given' to the Son," which the author of the article supported from John 17:6-19.  Yet John 17:6-19 does not refer unto all of the Jewish believers-disciples during our Lord Jesus Christ's earthly ministry, but only refers unto the eleven apostles alone.  So then, we are compelled to ask -- Which is it; do the "given ones" by God the Father encompass all of the believers-disciples during our Lord's earthly ministry, or do the "given ones" by God the Father encompass only the eleven apostles?
    Furthermore, we should recognize that the context of John 17:6-19 is grammatically more narrow than that of the other passages.  The first reference that our Lord Jesus Christ made unto the "given ones" within His prayer of John 17 is found in John 17:6.  Yet in this verse our Lord Jesus Christ did not make reference generally unto those whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Rather, in this verse our Lord Jesus Christ made reference specifically unto a group of MEN whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Therein our Lord said, "I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  As such, throughout the prayer of John 17, our Lord Jesus Christ was not necessarily speaking about all of the individuals whom God the Father had given unto Him, but was very specifically speaking about a specific group of men whom God the Father had given unto Him.  Yet in the context of John 6:37, our Lord Jesus Christ did NOT communicate that He was narrowing the "given ones" by God the Father only unto a specific group of MEN.  Rather, in John 6:37 our Lord Jesus Christ spoke more generally concerning those whom God the Father had given unto Him, even as He spoke more generally in John 10:27-30.  Thus when we seek for a Biblical comparison for John 6:37, we find that the context of John 10:1-30 serves as a far better comparison than does the context of John 17:6-19.
    (Note: The quotation of John 17:6 by the author of the article does not include this specific reference unto "the men."  Rather, his quotation of the the verse reads as follows, "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word." (emboldening added by Pastor Scott Markle)  The reason for this is because the author of the article was not quoting from the King James translation, but from some other translation.  Yet the Greek word "ἀνθρώποις" ("anthropois"), which is the plural of the Greek word meaning "man," is very specifically found in the Greek text of John 17:6.  Indeed, this Greek word is specifically found in the Received Text, as well as in the Westcott-Hort text and in the Nestle-Aland (27th ed.) text.  As such, the quotation that the author of the article employed simply came from a looser translation of the verse than that which is found in the King James translation.  In addition, that looseness in translation allowed for a distortion in the understanding of John 17:6.)
    However, the author of the article presented two more main points in his argument.  Therefore, there is yet more for us to consider.
    Sister Rose, are you following this information thus far; or do you have any questions about this information?
  7. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from No Nicolaitans in Topic Moved   
    Hey, now. Nobody (and I mean, NOBODY) likes those grammar police.  I mean - Who ever said that I care about grammar anyway?
  8. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Sister Rose,
    I do apologize.  I was unable to type up the next posting this afternoon as I had hoped to do.  Over the last two days, I have experienced an explosion of unexpected responsibilities.
  9. LOL
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to heartstrings in I've decided to join the Masons   
    At least you didn't reach for your square and compass.... :)
  10. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    I understand, whenever is convenient for you! Thank you, again!
  11. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Indeed, time is the factor at the moment.  I already am formulating (in my thoughts) that next posting concerning the article.  However, I have not yet had the time to write the posting itself.  Maybe (???) by tomorrow afternoon - if nothing unplanned arises to drain the time (a pastor's life).
  12. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to BroMatt in Need Help with Another Thread   
    Looks like this was already taking care of. Thank you.
  13. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Sister Rose,
    Certainly, I will commit myself to pray for you and to seek the Lord's direction.
    Already, I have a thought of suggestion -- Rather than isolate yourself completely from your husband in order to be alone with God for a series of days, I would suggest that you set aside a certain number of hours each day for prayer and Bible study, then that you take an opportunity (if your husband will agree) to express unto your husband what you learned from the Lord in that alone time, as well as to pray with your husband about what you learned.
  14. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Your husband has certainly presented a truth of wisdom in this comment.  Yet this truth of wisdom must be tempered somewhat with a recognition that some passages of Scripture, especially in the Old Testament Scriptures, are indeed written unto specific audiences with specific application unto those specific audiences.  However, even in these cases there are spiritual principles for us to glean in application unto our own lives for both our learning and our admonition (as per the declaration of Romans 15:4 & 1 Corinthians 10:11).  On the other hand, those things that are written in the New Testament concerning the disciples carry a greater weight of principle for our lives and application unto our lives.  This is so because the Lord chose them to be the foundation for the New Testament church, with Himself being the Chief Cornerstone. (See Ephesians 2:19-22)  As such, the disciples served in many ways as representatives for all New Testament believers.
     
    Indeed, the passage of Scripture unto which you refer above is also found in the gospel of John; and it reveals the Holy Spirit inspired purpose for the entire gospel of John.  It is John 20:30-31 -- "And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book: but these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name."  Even so, we understand that the primary purpose for the gospel of John is three-fold: (1) To teach the doctrinal truth that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; (2) To teach the personal responsibility that we should believe on Jesus as the Christ, the Son of God; (3) To teach the divine promise that through faith in Christ we might have spiritual life through His name.  Indeed, the gospel of John was written primarily unto the audience of the lost world, in order to communicate the gospel of Christ unto lost sinners throughout the world in any place and at any time.  (Note:  This is yet another reason that I do not believe that the gospel message and gospel promise of John 6:26-65 should be narrowed in any way only unto those who could physically see the Lord Jesus Christ during His earthly ministry.)
  15. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from No Nicolaitans in Topic Moved   
    Hey, now. Nobody (and I mean, NOBODY) likes those grammar police.  I mean - Who ever said that I care about grammar anyway?
  16. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    I'm following, those are a lot of good points! I am eager to hear the rest of your thoughts :) 
    Its interesting, actually, because my husband and I were having a Bible study, last night and there was a passage where, Jesus was saying something to comfort His disciples. I have heard many say that when He makes promises to His disciples, it doesn't a lot of the time, include us. But, my husband made a very good point, he said, "Why would God put those things, in His word, if they weren't supposed to also be applied, to us? It wasn't to just show us that the apostles were right with God and loved by Him, but to show us that He wants the same things for us, too." It seems so obvious, but when he said that, it clicked. I remembered, also that the Bible says that there were many miracles that Jesus did, that aren't written, so obviously it would make sense of course, that everything in the Bible has a purpose, towards us. I know that all of the words, in the Bible, are spoken by, God!
  17. LOL
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to HappyChristian in Topic Moved   
    Don't you mean "I thanked you, I thank you, I will be thanking you?" 
  18. Thanks
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Jim_Alaska in Topic Moved   
    I know that  have been continually blessed since I found OB and followed your postings in regard to properly understanding the grammatical context of various Scripture. It has really opened up my research and understanding of Scripture in its proper context. I am no grammarian by any means and do not have the educational background to ever be really good at it. But even my limited knowledge of grammar has increased dramatically when I see how including proper, accurate, grammar in my contextual study has benefited my studies.
    Thank you bro. Scott for taking the time to share your expertise with others, it has been a blessing.
  19. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    In his introductory portion, the author of the article presented the following two paragraphs:
                   (https://edgarsreflections.wordpress.com/2011/01/03/what-did-jesus-mean-by-“i-will-lose-nothing”-in-john-639/amp/)
    Within these paragraphs, the author places emphasis upon the reference unto "SEEING" the Lord Jesus Christ that is found in John 6:36.  The author does this in order to focus our attention upon the element of PHYSICALLY seeing the Lord Jesus Christ, in order that he may lay a foundation for the two primary points of his argument that the promise of security and the raising up at the last day are to be viewed with a PHYSICAL perspective, rather than a spiritual perspective.  I myself have three points of conflict with this presentation and emphasis:
    In the first place --
    It appears clearly to me that throughout our Lord's discussion in John 6:26-65, He intended to focus attention, not upon the physical, but upon the SPIRITUAL.  According to our Lord's rebuke in John 6:26 against those who sought for Him, it was the people who had a focus upon PHYSICAL food and PHYSICAL matters.  Yet the Lord Jesus Christ rebuked this focus upon the physical as a wrong focus.  Then in John 6:27 the Lord Jesus Christ attempted to redirect their focus upon SPIRITUAL matters.  Yet in John 6:31 the people made reference unto the miracle of manna in Moses' day, demonstrating that they were still focused wrongly upon physical food and physical matters.  Thus in John 6:32-33 the Lord Jesus Christ again attempted to redirect their focus upon SPIRITUAL matters.  Indeed, in John 6:35 the Lord Jesus Christ continued to emphasize the spiritual focus.  Then in John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ again rebuked these people for having seen Him physically, but for not believing on Him spiritually.  Yea, this appears to indicate that their physical focus had hindered them from making the correct spiritual decision of faith in Christ.  Furthermore, from John 6:60 we learn that at the end of the Lord Jesus Christ's discussion, some of His own disciples began to murmur against His teaching that individuals must eat His flesh and drink His blood in order to receive eternal life from Him.  It appears that they also had a more physical focus, and thus viewed this teaching as cannibalistic and wrong.  However, in John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ corrected them and clearly indicated that His teaching was not from a physical perspective, but from a SPIRITUAL perspective.  Therein He declared, "It is the spirit [spiritual focus] that quickeneth; the flesh [physical focus] profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit [spiritual focus], and they are life."   So then, for the author of the article to direct the focus of our attention upon physical matters appears to me for him to side with the people's wrong focus upon physical matters, rather than upon our Lord's true focus upon spiritual matters.
    In the second place --
    The emphasis of our Lord's message throughout John 6:26-65 does not at all appear to be upon the element of physically seeing him.  In fact, throughout this discussion He referenced seeing Him only twice. (See John 6:36, 40)  Whereas He referenced believing on Him six times. (See John 6:29, 35, 36, 40, 47, 64)  Furthermore, He referenced coming unto Him six times. (See John 6:35, 37, 44, 45, 65)  Finally, He referenced spiritually "partaking" (eating and drinking) of Him seven times. (See John 6:50, 51, 53, 54, 56, 57, 58)  So then, it does not at all appear through this emphasis that our Lord's emphasis was upon the element of physical sight as a requirement for the promises of the discussion, but was upon the elements of spiritually coming unto Him and partaking of Him through believing on Him.  Indeed, in John 20:29 our Lord Jesus Christ declared, after revealing Himself physically unto Thomas, "Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."  Let us then place our focus and emphasis upon that which our Lord Jesus Christ places His focus and emphasis.
    In the third place --
    While the author of the article focuses our attention upon the reference to physically seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6:36, he does not make any reference unto the reference of seeing the Lord Jesus Christ in John 6:40.  This is significant specifically because of the relationship between these two references unto the element of "seeing."  First, in John 6:36 we find a more negative passage, wherein the Lord Jesus Christ rebuked those individuals who had seen Him, yet did not believe on Him.  Whereas, in John 6:40 we find a more positive passage, wherein the Lord Jesus Christ described an individual who both saw Him AND believed on Him.  Even so, John 6:40 would be the passage which reveals the correct importance of "seeing" the Lord Jesus Christ.  Second, when we consider the Greek construction of these two verses, we find that the Lord Jesus Christ employed two completely different Greek verbs for "see" in these two verses.  (Now, I know that the author of the article was willing to consider the Greek construction, since he spent so much time later in the article on the Greek verb "anistemi."  Therefore, I find it of significance that he neglected to mention anything about this difference in Greek verbs for "see.") 
    So then, what IS the significance in this usage of different Greek verbs for "see"?  In John 6:36 the Lord Jesus Christ employed the Greek verb εωρακατε ("eorakate"), which is the perfect, active, indicative of ὁράω ("orao").  This Greek verb is a basic Greek word for "seeing" and can carry any of the various nuances thereof.  In John 6:40 the Lord Jesus Christ employed the Greek verb θεωρων ("theoron"), which is a present, active participle of θεωρέω ("theoreo").  This Greek verb is a synonym for ὁράω ("orao") and can also carry all of the various nuances of "seeing."  However, when θεωρων ("theoron") is employed in the same context as ὁράω ("orao"), it generally indicates an intensification to the act of "seeing."  As such, in the context of John 6:36 the usage of the Greek verb  ὁράω ("orao") would indicate a basic, physical "seeing" (observation) of the Lord Jesus Christ.  Yet it would not indicate anything deeper.  These people had indeed observed the Lord's ministry work and miraculous power.  They had sought for Him and had found Him physically.  Yet they did not believe on Him, for they did not "see" Him more deeply as the Savior.  On the other hand, in the context of John 6:40 the usage of the Greek verb θεωρέω ("theoreo") would indicate a deeper "seeing" of the Lord Jesus Christ, a "seeing" with definite interest and purpose, a "seeing" of spiritual recognition that He is indeed the Savior whom God the Father sent down from heaven.  In this context, this is not simply a physical observation at all.  Rather, in this context this is a spiritual recognition that moves an individual unto believing on the Lord Jesus Christ as Savior.  So then, the "seeing" of the believer in John 6:40 is not focused upon physical sight at all, but is focused upon spiritual recognition and understanding.  As such, the attempt by the author of the article to narrow the application of John 6:37-40 unto those disciples who actually saw the Lord Jesus Christ physically during His earthly ministry is invalid.  Indeed, the application of this passage is for any individual who "sees" with spiritual recognition and understanding that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Savior, and who is thereby motivated to believe on Him as personal Savior.
    However, the author of the article presented much more in his argument.  Therefore, there is yet more for us to consider.
    Sister Rose, are you following this information thus far; or do you have any questions about this information?
  20. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from No Nicolaitans in Topic Moved   
    Hey, now. Nobody (and I mean, NOBODY) likes those grammar police.  I mean - Who ever said that I care about grammar anyway?
  21. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from No Nicolaitans in Topic Moved   
    Hey, now. Nobody (and I mean, NOBODY) likes those grammar police.  I mean - Who ever said that I care about grammar anyway?
  22. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Thank you, I truly appreciate it. I'm very thankful for the help, I'm getting. I will definitely try to be strong and patient during, this time of help!
  23. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    Sister Rose,
    I recognize that this comment was not directed in response unto me.  However, I wish to respond unto it nevertheless.  I do understand how confusing it can be when you hold unto the authority of God's Word with conviction, and when "the other side" appears to have the stronger Biblical argument (position).  Even so, I understand that your presence here is "a cry of desperation."  For this very reason, I have accepted (what I believe to be) the direction of God the Holy Spirit to help you as much as I am able with patient teaching.  I pray that you will stay with me throughout the process, and that you will be spiritually edified thereby.
  24. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle reacted to Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    I'm following, I believe.
  25. Like
    Pastor Scott Markle got a reaction from Roselove in Saved in 3 tenses?   
    In the article that you referenced (as presented below) . . .
    . . . the author of the article argued for four primary points in order to challenge the common understanding for John 6:39.  These three points are as follows:
    1.  Those individuals whom God the Father gave unto God the Son do not include all New Testament believers, but only included the Jewish believers during Christ's public ministry.
    2.  God the Father's assignment unto God the Son not to lose any of these individuals does not refer unto spiritual security, but refers unto physical protection.
    3.  God the Son's promise to raise these individuals up at the last day does not refer unto the future resurrection of righteousness, but indicates that He would keep them physically alive until some future time in the coming years.
    The author began with the contextual background for the discussion of our Lord with the people through John 6:35-65.  Therefore, I shall do the same.  
    1.  In John 6:1-13 God's Word reveals the historical account concerning the feeding of the five thousand.  
    2.  In John 6:14-15 God's Word reveals that Jesus departed alone into the mountains away from the multitudes - specifically because He perceived that due to the miracle of food, they would attempt to take Him by force in order to make Him their king.
    3.  In John 6:16-21 God's Word reveals that at evening the disciples traveled by ship over the sea unto Capernaum, but encountered a storn - wherein Jesus walked on the sea unto them.
    4.  In John 6:22-25 God's Word reveals that on the next morning when the people who had experienced the miracle of food did not find Jesus, they also took shipping unto Capernaum, specifically looking for Jesus.
    5.  In John 6:26 God's Word reveals that Jesus rebuked these individuals for seeking Him, not because of His miraculous power, but because they had been filled with free food, thus revealing that their motivation was focused upon physical food and physical matters.
    6.  In John 6:27 God's Word reveals that Jesus instructed these individuals not to labor for physical food, but to focus their attention upon the food of everlasting life that they might receive from the "Son of man."
    7.  In John 6:28 God's Word reveals that these individuals asked Jesus a question concerning what they might do, in order that they might "work the works [plural] of God."  (Note: It is significant and worthy of notice that they used the plural word "works" in their question.) 
    8.  In John 6:29 God's Word reveals that Jesus gave answer unto these individuals, "This is the work [singular] of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent."  (Note:  It is worthy of notice that Jesus only set one, singular requirement before them from God -- To believe on God the Son, whom God the Father had sent unto them.)
    9.  In John 6:30-31 God's Word reveals that these individuals asked Jesus for a miraculous sign in order that they might believe Him, and that they made reference unto the Old Testament miracle of manna in Moses' day, indicating that they were still focused upon physical food and upon the miracle of food.
    10.  In John 6:32-33 God's Word reveals that Jesus gave answer unto these individuals, indicating that God, not Moses, was the authority and power in the Old Testament miracle of manna (physical food), and indicating that God the Father was now giving unto them "the true bread from heaven" (spiritual food), the Messiah Himself, who came down from heaven and who gives life unto the world.  (Note:  It is worthy of notice that Jesus did not simply reference the Jews in relation to this gift of life, but referenced the entire world.)
    This is the contextual background for the discussion in John 6:35-65.  Let us take note of some thematic points:
    1.  Food, with a specific focus upon bread, is a theme that runs throughout this context.  For this reason Jesus used the metaphor of bread (referring unto Himself as the Bread of Life) and of eating and drinking that bread throughout the discussion of John 6:35-65.
    2.  The people were focused upon the matter of PHYSICAL food; whereas Jesus sought to refocus their attention upon SPIRITUAL matters.
    3.  The particular spiritual matter upon which Jesus sought to focus their attention was to believe on Him.
    Sister Rose, are you following this contextual information thus far; or do you have any questions about this contextual information?
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