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wretched last won the day on December 9 2017

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    But to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

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    But to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

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  1. Question about Bible College.

    I have a challenge for you. I recommend you hold off on pursuing a degree for one year. In one year if you still feel the same way then go for it but I can 100% guarantee you (if you follow the instructions) that you will not feel the same way in one year. First order a set of KJV Bible CDs of the New Testament narrated by Alexander Scourby. (Ebay or Amazon) These can also be listened to on youtube if you prefer. Once the CDs arrive, spend the same amount of time you would as a full time student in college (4-6 hours) a day secluded without distraction, listening with prayers for the Spirit's understanding and an open heart to the Spirit. Start with the Gospels in order, then repeat at least 5 times before you move on. This will not take much time if you stick to a schedule as mentioned, you will understand the Old Testament at this point like you never imagined. Then go onto Acts and repeat it 5 times, then the remainder of the NT in order but hold off on Revelation until you have gone through all Epistles 5 times. Revelation will be far more understandable for you by this time. Once completed repeat the entire program again in the same order over and over. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. This verse will take on a entirely new meaning to you and you will have faith expediential to before. This plan will save you money and effort, and most of all you will understand God without the traditions and opinions of men. Something theology from any college can never give you. Just a friendly recommendation I give to anyone, whether a student or not. Of course the times can be modified and listening while commuting is far more soothing than anything else if you have a long commute.
  2. Last one to post in this thread wins

    Well that is worth posting over. Congratulations Rosie!!!
  3. Is the KJVO "movement" dying?

    I think the problem is much more basic and systemic than this. Never mind the perceived state of these institutions because none are Scriptural. The entire practice of higher learning institutions in which "young" men are trained to "pastor other" churches came from the RCC and later mimicked by protestant denominations. Not one jot nor tittle is Scriptural IMO.
  4. Soul winning class ideas

    Giving assurance of salvation via the promises of God typically consists of out of context promissory verses and is part of the same heresy as easy believism IMO, here is my rationale: God says that no one can pronounce another person saved. I Cor 3 debunks the heresies perpetrated by the charismatics, emerging "churches" and the big numbers IFB "preachers" of the recent past: One plants, one waters but only God gives the increase. The planters and waterers are nothing and not to be revered or even mentioned. If the Scripture was followed we would never have heard the names of these big shot charlatans with their empirical "churches" (none of which is Scriptural). The heretics claim their own increases, that is what easy believism is all about - Pride by way of false numbers. God says that the planters and waterers are to be considered nothing in this activity, only the Word and the Spirit of God is. The same applies to the current practice of giving false assurances. I call them false assurances because the contexts of these passages always indicate evidence by demonstration of saving faith. To repeat these out of context passages to persons who have demonstrated little to no evidence of the new birth is heresy IMO. Giving assurances is the second part of the easy believism heresy. They go hand in hand and depend on each other to close the shady "sale" and report the bogus numbers to each other (God certainly isn't listening). The whole concept is Scripturally ludicrous if you really study it. God says the Spirit bears witness with our spirits that we are the children of God (Rom 8:13-17). That is His job, not ours. Nowhere in Scripture does the Lord tell us specifically to give assurance of salvation to anyone. That assurance can only come from the new birth and the Spirit of God. According to Scripture IMO, pronouncing someone saved is just as unscriptural as giving someone assurances. I suspect in every case where these assurances seemed to stick, it wasn't these assurances at work at all. It was the Spirit and the new birth that probably did finally occur after the ground was properly ploughed, seeded and watered, hence the removal of doubt in their minds although they repeated a prayer sometime in the past (sometimes years in the past). We think our unscriptural assurances did it for them, when what really did it was conviction in the heart by the Spirit after hearing much more of God's Word. In reality they were regenerated when no one was looking. I know typically it is believed that when a person says the right words, that is the moment of regeneration but that is most times not the truth. Remember only God knows the exact moment of regeneration (John 3:8). Neither the saved person nor any "preacher" has a clue until after the fact evidenced by a new heart with new desires that will want to continue following the Lord. If that is not demonstrated, then there is no Scriptural doubt that they are still dead in trespasses and sins.
  5. Dave, Good thread IMO and a good argument. I think I understand where you are coming from now and I think you are correct in that a church is always an assembly regardless of how mentioned. I am addressing two very related birds with this post if you don't mind. Both the local church for us during our 70 years down here and all born again believers making up the body of Christ throughout the age, are Scriptural. Our business is the local church. God's business is the whole church from the beginning which will assemble in Heaven later on. So IMO this makes your argument very logical and it can be stated accurately that the body of Christ is not His complete or assembled Church "yet". But rather the mentions of His Church are in future tense and reference that time when it is complete and assembled in Heaven, including Heb 12 which is also applied in future tense because it is obvious that the audience nor Paul had yet "physically come unto the mount Sion" but that his name is written there and he and all to who that passage applies to will come later throughout the age until all are present. Then and only then is His Church Assembled. The Lord is outside of time so He refers to us all as His church (past, present and future) but we are still inside the limits of time and can only refer to our physical assemblies with any authority. There is no doubt that the catholic perversion of the universal church lead by a pope is unscriptural. Just like every counterfeit aspect of Catholicism. Protestants and Charismatics follow the same errors in relation to I Cor 13. They believe Apostle type characters still exist in some more modern form like popery and archbishops and denominational presidents, etc. Some of these groups even refer to their leaders as "apostle". So in mind-boggling error they think a central person is to have oversight of many churches as it was in Acts initially. What is not understood by these false groups is that in Acts, once these churches (that they personally planted) were later confirmed by the same Apostles (and their own disciples), they then became independent churches. They of course can't understand that the Spiritual authority and powers given the Apostles died with them after the completion of God's Perfect Revelation to man and the presence of indwelling Spirit. Not just Apostolic authority but also Apostolic gifts breathed on the Apostles by the Lord personally including all gifts of healings, tongues, prophesies, signs, wonders and miracles. Some of these gifts were passed onto the Apostle's direct disciples also but all ended at the end of the first century once the Book of Revelation was finished in written form. All of these early gifts were considered child's play by God once the Perfect combination of His Spirit guiding believers in His Completed Word was come (that which is Perfect) I Cor 13. God has no need for Apostles to provide oversight anymore we have the "perfect" and more "excellent" way now. His Word is complete so there will be no more Revelation/prophesy from Him to anyone since AD96 and all the way up until the Comforter is taken out of the way with His remaining Church members. Nor is there any need for Spiritual gifts, signs, tongues or any other "sight" type early evidences for the unbelievers. The Spirit is here now to convict of sin, righteousness and judgment to come based solely on God's Completed, Written Word. Since I Cor 13 and 14 are purposely ignored by these groups, all sorts of nonsense that mocks God and His Word goes on in this age. Man worship like Popery and denominational central offices/presidents (doctrine of the nicolaitans) comes from this purposeful misinterpretation, as does all charismania like dreams and visions and audible voices and near death (see the light) nonsense concocted in the mind that always needs to see a sign or proof of God. God clearly puts no man anyone else in this age (Matt 23). He will speak to no one audibly in this age. All of His revelation to us is already revealed and Perfect being explained by His Spirit. Out of ignorance these groups believe that we not only have God's Complete Revelation and God's Holy Spirit poured out over all flesh who convicts, regenerates, seals and indwells. but they also redundantly retain the temporary: Apostolic authority along with all the gifts clearly designated by God as temporary, IE..."in part" until the Perfect combination of the Spirit and His Word is come. The entire idea of seeking signs in this age is not only unscriptural but also makes a foolish mockery of God and His true Gospel which can only be received in pure faith without sight of any type. In addition, Spiritual growth can only come from true faith and true faith can only come from "hearing His written Word". If a person seeks signs long enough, their subconscious minds will give provide them. Aided of course by spicy foods, hormonal imbalances, medications or rem-sleep dreams sometimes brought on by anesthesia . The ignorance is in the seeking of such signs. Except the sign of Jonas the prophet of course (Christ's Sacrifice for us). I believe false religions share the same misunderstandings of these passages and this is where some of their distinguishing falsehoods come from, whether man-worship (universal church) or extra revelation, signs/miracles in this age. These confusions are all directly related IMO.
  6. Evolution Evangelism

    Well, you are absolutely correct in this one area. Most of the world is dead in trespasses and sins, heading straight to hell, including the lost religious (Christian science, scientologists, theistic evolutionists, etc.). The attempt to regulate God to their natural understanding equals religion, never Bible Christianity. Bible Christianity is being regenerated by the Spirit of God through true heart belief in the Gospel, turning from their natural understanding to the absolute truths of God's Word. Once this true belief occurs, the person is now born again and their eyes and hears are finally opened to the Truth and they can understand it for the first time. The key attitude to look for when looking for true regenerating belief is the difference between embracing God's Truth (after belief) or attempting to mix His Truth with men's lies to make them more palatable for the natural man to swallow. This is you my friend. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. I Cor 2:14 To each their own belief is your testimony and this testimony shall result in the lake of fire. Only when we follow God's Way, will we see life eternal in Heaven. Imagine your little child telling you that you are wrong and they and their other little children are right and will see, understand and do things their own way. Would you reward their failures to succeed? Godly sorrow leads us to repentance.... Have you ever felt true sorrow for your sins (realizing that hell awaits you) and true belief in Christ's Gospel? Until you turn from your own understanding and turn to the True God and His Only Truth clearly described in His Word, you cannot Receive Him as your own Savior. Believe your own understanding or throw away those thoughts (like all true Bible Christians have done) and believe God at His Word before it is too late for you my friend. I am and I am sure others here are praying for you.

    I Tim 6:20: O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called: Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Any attempt to reconcile God's Word to humanism (the worship of man & science) is simply masking shame in Christ, the Cross and God's Word. To have shame in God's Word among the heathen is to have shame in Christ. Christ is the Living Word who framed the worlds, The Bible is His Direct and Complete Revelation to man. Without the Word, there is no redemption. He that believes in Me, shall NOT BE ASHAMED (Romans 9:33 & 10:11) John 1: 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear (IOWs: no evolution, no big bangs, no beach erosion, no formation of mountains by tenonic plates, nothing on this world naturally created or contributed to the creation of anything else on this world). If you can see it here, God put it here Himself. Unregenerate "faith" is not saving faith. Most last days "professing christians" will hear "I never knew you" at the Great White Throne. That is all this thread is really about, this man is crying out for help IMO.

    If I may, lets just contrast that a little with the end times which are also predominantly taken literally, Rev 16:17-21: 17And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. 18And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. 19And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. 20And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. 21And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. My point is this: None of this will occur via evolution, beach erosion, natural selection or random tectonic plates shifts either my friend. Make sure you know in your heart what you believe. The time is short......
  9. what body

    In a nutshell, I Cor 5: To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord is your answer friend. Until the catching away of the church (rapture) believers souls because of their quickened spirits and without their original bodies are present with the Lord. The form of these believers is spirit while awaiting the below event to occur: A new glorified body is given by the Lord to believers at the catching away of the Church, beginning of the 7 year tribulation. The dead bodies of those believers who passed prior will go up to be reunited with their souls/spirits already in Heaven and instantly transformed into glorified bodies. Living believers at that time will go up body/soul and spirit to be transformed. (I Thess 4:17 and context).
  10. Baptism.....

    Excellent point!
  11. Baptism.....

    The NT would seem to indicate indirectly that believing/baptized men with or without office baptized other believers. With 3000 being baptized in one day with only the Apostles doing it is beyond extreme and several passages showing our Lord's disciples "commanded them to be baptized" like in Acts 10:48, etc. The Scripture doesn't say the disciples themselves baptized but rather they commanded the act of obedience be done. No doubt from the already believing and baptized men in the church IMO. Other passages agree with this from the Epistles as Paul rebuked many for the idea that the baptizer's name was of any significance. I would caution against women baptizing even other women since no example of this appears throughout the NT. The reason for this would be consistent with several passages that restrict women in a small amount of Spiritual matters. Since baptism is the first demonstration of Spiritual obedience for a believer, common sense would place baptizing in the same category although not specifically addressed. IMO omissions in the Word are for a reason almost as much as examples. Almost forgot one point: Baptizing is not mentioned in discussion concerning the church offices. (Another omission point). But neither is marrying, burying, marriage counseling and a small host of others things the last days churches demand of one dude. This is my opinion after researching it a while back anyway, I am not 100% on it.
  12. Baptism.....

    I would like to add a few thoughts also to this thread. The Lord never told anyone to go out and preach 4 verses from Romans Road and convince people to say a sinner's prayer, then go on about their self-interests and business in this world with their new fire insurance policy. It was Satan that came up with this easy believeism non-sense prevalent in these last days. 1000:1 false professions of "faith" throughout fundamental and emerging churches is the norm while all these "preachers" spend most of their preaching time promoting dead faith because they are clueless to what our Lord's instructions are to us. The Commission is 3 parts to one commission. Anything short of that is failure to follow our Lord's Commands. Jesus said to bring our fruit to perfection. Seems so very many self proclaimed "learned big shots" in Christian circles are clueless to the new birth. All they seem to understand are empty words which produce false conversions so they can proclaim another "soul saved" on their resumes. They justify this by claiming that the Gospel is received, acted on and results in vastly differing outcomes for people but all are somehow still regenerated regardless of evidence. This idea is foreign to Scripture and God. Mark 16:16 makes perfect sense if we are following our Lord's commands. Why would anyone follow the Lord in baptism if they do not believe? Remember God wrote this so of course He meant only true, heart belief. Because only true, convicted by the Spirit, heart belief saves. Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness. Comparing Scripture to Hebrews 11 and the Gospels would indicate that baptism is God's designated method of demonstrating our faith in Christ in this age and is just as important as the other two parts of the Great Commission. One part or two parts without all three is incomplete and not what God told us to do. No-one identified by God as righteous by belief in Hebrews 11 had dead faith. Every single person demonstrated their faith by obedience. I believe God means that "Talk is Cheap". Don't tell me you believe, SHOW ME you believe. Example: Had Noah told God he believed Him about the coming flood but failed to build the ark, he and his would have drowned with the rest. But on the bright side, he could have still had a successful, money making "ministry" on earth according to these last days false prophets because he did say he believed. That has got to count for something, right (hic). And no friends, this does not incorporate "works" by us. The obedience is the result of true faith and demonstrates it. Without this demonstration, there is only seeding and watering IMO. And without our obedience to Christ to give people the whole truth of the Gospel (ie His Commission) then these easy believer's (still dead in trespasses and sins) blood shall be on our hands at the Great White Throne IMO. And we shall suffer loss at the Judgment Seat over them. I realize that there can be exceptions to the commission such as the thief on the Cross. However, these are the rare exceptions and even in these rare instances, there will be some demonstration of belief to God. In other words, these "exceptions" are timing in nature and are of no fault of the believer (similar to the thief's predicament-like death beds and nursing homes). Any person who misuses this one obscure example to preach a "doctrine" of salvation is a false prophet (prophet because they didn't get this idea from the Bible). It doesn't matter how many books they wrote or who publishes their merchandise. The thief publicly rebuked his colleague for un-belief and professed Christ to all present without shame. Had he lived, he would have followed the Lord, starting with baptism. The blame lies on those of us who choose to keep perpetuating this lie. The Lord gives the increase every single salvation and I suspect from Scripture that He hates it when we proclaim our own increases. The Truth is in His Word and not complicated and this Truth is as far from easy believism as it is from lordship salvation.
  13. The beauty of creation

    Not sure I agree with this friend. All we can possibly gather from Scripture amounts to a certain level of speculation no doubt but the idea that they are Moses and Elijah is indirectly supported by Scripture. Being appointed once to die and after this the Judgment could make a good argument against it but remember that neither Enoch nor Elijah died on earth their first go around nor was Moses body recovered so that passage of Scripture is obviously not all encompassing and God can certainly make His own exceptions according to His Will. Technically speaking the two witnesses do physically die at the hands of the beast so perhaps their deaths were simply delayed for God's bigger purpose and do maintain Scriptural consistency. The identical plagues and wrath brought on by God through these witnesses mirrors the same MO that God used previously with Moses and Elijah.....just saying. Why would you suppose them to be a random jew and gentile?
  14. "Repent of Your Sins" False gospel

    Multitudes of individual Jews believed on our Lord during His Ministry and multitudes since. Our Lord and His Apostles were Jews. It was the governing Jews (national Israel) that denied our Lord, not all of the masses. We are to love, pray for and witness to individual Jews all the time. I realize through your testimony and avatar that you are a new believer so I am posting this to save you much disappointment years from now. Make sure you search the Scriptures daily to double-check your pastor's preaching (or whomever it is that influences you). The statements you made which I bolded, did not come from the Bible contextually. I won't take the time to give you hundreds of passages clearly supporting this post but I am sure a young believer like you can look them up yourself (just word search in any NT software the word Jew). God said through Paul "to the Jews first" so if God says it we better be saying it. God never retracted or changed this precept. My point is this friend, don't take anyone's word for God's Word...ever. Get with God's Word and His Spirit to check everything you see and hear and always realize that only God's Word is true, not necessarily your pastor regardless of how inspiring or bold he is. This is not a slight directed toward your pastor or influencer. What I mean is don't follow their words blindly assuming they are right simply because they claim some "calling" from God. Acts 17:11 One of the fastest methods to id wolves in sheep's clothing (even among IFB ranks) is how they use Scripture in topical sermons. If you catch them plucking passages out of their context to support a topic, when clearly that passage was not discussing said topic then be double-weary of everything they say from that point on. It matters not how noble or "righteous" their topic was. Remember: Check Double-Check then Re-Check
  15. "Repent of Your Sins" False gospel

    Our Lord never said (to us) to repent of our sins. The Book of Revelation is the only book in the NT that mentions repentance of sins (specific deeds or actions) and is directed to the harlot and those who remain during the tribulation. In the case of Jordan's mother as with many people who are given the Scriptural Gospel, she understands from the Spirit of God that she will have a transformed life if she truly believes (no doubt Jordan's testimony has assisted with that). Much better to give the whole truth over time with tears instead of the cost counting, fake 123 gospel which saves no one. Tares (religious lost who are repeatedly assured of their salvation by false teachers) outnumber wheat 3:1 in most fundamental churches because of this cheapening. These same churches report thousands saved with 10 baptized because of this perversion. "But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God and do works meet for repentance. Acts 26:20" "For Godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation, not to be repented of." The Bible teaches secret fasting and prayer in cases like this which carry deep, personal burden. Paul was distraught over his own people and their lost state and lead many to salvation by intercessory prayer and fasting. Time and again as people were saved in the NT, they went to warn their own houses first. Jesus taught importunity if you want God's ear in hard matters such as this. (Luke 11). Won't be easy and will actually be the most difficult thing you will ever do. Not by words of fleshly wisdom but by His Spirit. How do we get the Spirit involved? By obeying Luke 11. Results will be based on the amount of sincere effort that is put into it (God's promise). Best to push yourself now than to suffer the tears of regret during the millennium.