Your first line answered the issue John? So a person hears the Gospel, is supposedly convicted by the Holy Spirit, supposedly repents from any ideas of God they had before to supposedly trust in the Living, One True God. Later on however, repents from the Living, One True God to trust some other false god....was truly BORN AGAIN while all this occurred? Come on John, the gifts and calling of God are without repentance (on either side)
Well the emerging church movement and rick warren types would certainly agree but this cannot be found in the Bible. The Bible describes it as quite impossible for a born again Christian to blaspheme the Spirit. What you are describing here would be crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, and putting Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6 is no mystery and very clear on this subject. This kind of thinking is certainly in agreement with false professions though. Not trying to one up anyone but we need to get busy with witnessing to people who got "saved" without any knowledge of Hell, Judgement or Condemnation. About the only 2 reasonable qualifiers we have to know who is a brother or sister in Christ is this and professing Him before men with Baptism. Why should we care you ask? So next time someone stops you while witnessing and says they are already born again, we will ask the right questions to make sure before we move on. People like this are all over the place thanks to satan and his emerging church which he started as an answer to the fundamental movement years ago. Just as he did with the catholic church in the 3rd century as an answer to the spread of the real Gospel by real Christians. It is a phony imitation of Bible Christianity. Anyone who was saved 20-30 years ago used to know this stuff, we have just forgotten it. Oh and BTW: the reason we have forgotten is because we are lured away from the Word and into reading and considering every watered down idea by these charlatans. We do these false professors no justice by assuring them they are saved simply because they said the repeat after me prayers. If there was no change then there was no regeneration of the Spirit. Read the parable of the sower for clues into this.
Before anything happens to anyone, they must hear the Gospel clearly from the Word, the seed has to be planted. Without the Scriptures in their ears, the Spirit will not convict. With the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. It is a Spirit induced change of heart that cannot be explained by mechanics alone. But when it does happen all things are new, the blinders lifted and they receive more and more truth as time goes by like a sponge (some faster than others). This Spirit generated change of heart does create a Spirit generated change in action as the new believer hears more and more milk from the Word. Saints do succumb to sin repeatedly after salvation but they will never, ever turn to different gods or beliefs after salvation. That is what Hebrews 6 teaches quite clearly IMO. Noone saved will turn to humanism, paganism, idolatry, islam, budda, the pope, etc...EVER. It is quite impossible so if you have someone in this situation, keep witnessing to them because they never got saved to begin with. They got sold a rabbit's foot prayer.
Well I gotta hand it to you, you do admit to be a follower of men at least. If he is your actual pastor, please say so. Sadly with this anderson fella he thinks he knows things noone else has thought of. Just another sign of a novice lifted with pride and I have seen the soulwinning you mention. That church is no where near 1000s big my young friend. I did a little research after this thread posted. I have seen this type repeated in many places 60 people out for 2 hours in a muslim neighborhood with only one baptized but supposedly 43 saved. That is not soulwinning friend. I see folks doing these quick presentations on porches with folks who are polite. Somehow though not interested enough in their souls to even invite them in and actually take time with the Scriptures. These people just wanted them off their porches so pray the 123 prayer to get rid of them. After all, why not, they think of it as a rabbits foot, like it can't hurt to repeat after them!!! Like a lucky charm I want to try to get in good with all types of gods. That kind of witnessing is not Scriptural. Ask anderson how many faithful members of his church got saved like that - the answer will be zero; there is always more to the story than this quicky stuff. Does it happen with the quicky presentations and prayers (yes if the seed has been planted and watered enough) but rarely. And when it is a real conversion, those people will come to church and confess Him before men. I am not saying they will all grow the same or serve the same but they will confess Him before men. Why not track how many got a chance to give the complete Gospel or track how many tracts were accepted when they didn't want to receive the complete Gospel. We are to plant the seeds and water planted seeds but God and Him only gives the increase. And when He does, we will bring the sheaves with us. Anderson and others like him want to give the increase themselves with these false conversion numbers. The real numbers are sitting in the pews at least for a little while. I am not referring to folks who did confess Him with Baptism and then backslide, not at all the Bible tells us there will be many like this. What the Bible doesn't tell us is those who won't be Baptised are actually saved (not couldn't, not can't) but WON'T Sure I can't see into mens hearts but I can read my Bible and It says that if he who will not confess Me before men him will I not confess before my Father. Those ain't conversions, those are just rabbit's feet for the lost. Reporting numbers at all costs does more harm than good. Another novice mistake. If they want to grow in the Lord and truly serve Him, they will forget their pride in false numbers and stop condemning folks who will now tell the next soulwinner that they are already saved once again stopping their chance to hear the complete Gospel. It really makes me angry. Somewhere along the line these folks need to be honest with themselves and not sell it like snakeoil with wisdom of words making the Cross of none effect. There is a big difference between polite and convicted, how do we ignore this? I know people all around this area who tell me all the time they are saved but these same people will not even tell their own children how to escape hell. Saved huh? like my redbone hounds are saved. We must go and we must preach but not like this. Stop the nonsense and get busy, time is short.
You are right NN, I use vpn all the time. Just make sure when you connect to vpn you have an active connection before you do your business. It will tell you if your vpn is connected and give you a window or prompt to click accept. Mine is laptop but should be the same for phone. It will not have a separate browser, you use your normal one.
Sorry Mike, you are out of context with the children of light reference. This passage is in reference to remaining vigilant and always looking for His return in the clouds, check v 10, those asleep are also saved. Reread my post above quoting Matt and Luke. NOONE will know. Your entire idea here is just wrong friend, sorry
This is the point made earlier in this thread Mike, your idea here is not Scriptural IMO and we will not be here for the clear cut seals that will be unmistakable as pretty well described throughout Scripture. Your idea certainly takes away any "unawares" and "thief in the night" mentions in Scripture. Allot of contingent speculation in your post. Sounds well researched but is contingent on so many variables. When a Pre trib "expert" analyses like you did, they cover all the ground as you and yours but with a pre trib outcome. The only thing that is not a variable is the fact that when it occurs noone will be expecting it. Even the people who keep pushing silly dates will be just as surprised as the rest. This negates all these contingent speculations IMO. Contingent speculation in the King's English means: Your big guesses are dependent on whether your leading guesses are accurate.
The OP stand is that of pre wrath it appears from his little chart. The chart shows a 3.5 year Rapture. Sadly all the research and eloquence in the world won't erase the simple facts of Matthew 24 and repeated in Luke: 36, But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37, But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38, For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40, Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41, Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42, Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43, But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44, Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. All saved will know when the Great Tribulation begins and would certainly know the Seals so any thoughts of a rapture mid or post is just not "how can I say kindly" intelligent. I don't care what big shot wrote what book. The big shots should be serving God in their local church. It just may be them who are supposed to lead the last few to the Lord before any of this will occur anyway and what are they doing? This?
Hold on there young man, why this pretension? You already made it pretty clear that you follow a couple fellas: anderson and ken somebody of which I have never heard of either (no doubt for a reason - not worth hearing about in most cases) or they are big shot published authors so I will never have any interest in them. Can you be a little clearer in what you are trying to say? It sounds to me like you are on the right track but perhaps not expressing it thoroughly.
Locally Pastors and teachers in your own church, absolutely. Books for profit absolutely not. They are all filthy lucre and we all know it. OT Scriptures only is what Paul wanted my friend. Not tom, dick and harry's opinions on any subject.
Sorry I saw this late You mean digging into the Word or digging into merchandise? You can understand it without the man made aids, right? I mean seriously...right?? Not picking a fight just proving a point. Milk is for babes and that is all the aids do, they attempt to turn God's meat into milk so babes can understand it. When more times than not, the aid being read is wrong in interpretation or definition. Where is the growth in that? Generally speaking to allI find it strange to hear someone defend the Word as perfect and complete in one hand but you need this stack of concordances, lexicons and dictionaries to understand it in the other? Where does it say that in there? Bible says the Spirit will teach us all truth.