wretched

*Independent Fundamental Baptist
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wretched last won the day on October 5 2016

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About wretched

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    But to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

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    But to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.
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  1. Please consider my quickly written opinion: I believe the two judgments we traditional speak of are accurate and are tied directly to the two different resurrections God speaks of: The resurrection of the just occurs at the catching away of the church. And there is a separate resurrection of the just from the unjust. 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. Luke 14:13 But when thou makest a feast, call the poor, the maimed, the lame, the blind: 14And thou shalt be blessed; for they cannot recompense thee: for thou shalt be recompensed at the resurrection of the just. Acts 24:15And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust (this speaks of separate resurrections as other Scripture references discuss) The Judgment seat of Christ begins at the rapture with the church saints and continues through the Great Tribulation with the trib saints. As more are murdered/martyred during the tribulation, they are judged for their works on earth during the tribulation. The Great White Throne Judgement of the lost occurs after the 1000 year reign of Christ and is the second resurrection (as I note and bolded below). In order to rule and reign with Christ, we must be part of the first resurrection that occurs at all points of the tribulation beginning at the rapture of the church else what capacity would our ruling positions be determined by?: Rev 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them (indicating judging is taking place during the tribulation): and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished (this is a caveat inserted to distinguish between the resurrection of the saved-FIRST resurrection and the resurrection of the lost- SECOND resurrection). This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. This passage makes it clear to me that the just's judgment occurs during the tribulation, determining position of rulership during the 1000 year reign and NOT 1000 years later when all the lost are judged and condemned. The church age saints judged at the beginning of the tribulation and those martyred (to be saved) throughout the tribulation. All of these rule and reign and their levels of reward/crowns and rank comes from the pure faith works they perform during their physical lives. Although there are some hints that the tribulation saints will hold higher positions of rulership than the church saints (the first-last/last-first parable) I personally believe however that the church age saints will have more rewards and positions of higher authority than those saved during the tribulation. Why, because these trib saints will have the full benefit of sight to believe and a very short period to serve-all indications are that this service will be more in the form of martyrdom as the above passage indicates. The trib saints will see first hand God's miracles, signs and wonders which the church age saints never got to see post Apostles. We got saved by faith without sight of any type and are "bless-ed" to God more so than any other groups in History IMweightofSriptureO. Not only do we rule and reign with Christ but we will judge angels (I Cor 6:3). Sorry for all the bolding but I figure some inflection might help in the explanation's understanding......
  2. Seems appropriate for anderson
  3. This one discusses it pretty well
  4. Excellent post Although I may not be in 100% agreement with the baptism pre-reqs, I understand what you are saying: Acts 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. 36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? 37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. 38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. **This does however indicate to me that Philip took the man's word for it. Perhaps we should ask the right question....
  5. Good catch
  6. According to NT Scriptures I see little if any involvement of angels with us during the church age which is of course consistent with the doctrine of the indwelling Spirit. I gather from the OT, Gospels and Revelation that God uses them for His own bidding episodically now (which we can not currently grasp, see or understand I reckon) but will have many missions for them in the times to come according to prophetic Scripture. There is a warning against the worship of angels in Colossians 2:18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, There is also one mention of Angels being assigned to children which intimates "guardian" type angels. This is only mentioned pertaining to children however: Matt 18: 3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven. Not much, but this is all I got anyway.....
  7. Good question?
  8. Scripture shows and I am sure I am forgetting some info: 3 types of angel, if you count archangels separate from standard cherubs individually created vice procreation sexually genderless not having reproductive organs 1/3 of their numbers are fallen have free will just like man Powerful but of less stature to God than man since we will judge them. Why, what are you hearing?
  9. Excellent synopsis IMO
  10. Nailed it perfectly IMO....
  11. Good points as usual, I get it
  12. Well, I certainly was not fishing for farewell speeches. What I am talking about is lightening up a little and giving new posters a chance without the attacks. Maybe some would stick around a while and add some variety to the threads.
  13. I wouldn't let it bother you Jim. I haven't seen a repeated poster on this forum lately that wasn't a self-described "man of God" in some form or fashion. IOW: an expert that won't be told different. Seems new folks that are not some sort of self described "man of God" with boldness get run off long before they can absorb any teaching or share any thoughts. Seriously, there are now more moderators on this forum than active posters it seems. The latest thread topics I have seen are peripheral issues and not of the "fundamental" variety so it doesn't help the sharing of ideas when a moderator accuses those who don't see things the way you have been taught of being part of this "falling away". To be blunt Jim, if you think these disagreements are the falling away referenced in 2 Thess 2 then you seriously need to get out of the house more. How could you take the abuse one receives when they really preach the Word on the streets to the lost if you can't handle minor disagreement over minor issues from other believers over the internet without getting depressed? If there is a city of any size where you live, spend a Saturday on main street with Gospel signs and you will see first hand what the falling away really is. Basically this is a forum full of chiefs without any Indians to teach. Take it all with a grain of salt and realize it is simply a pass-time and not to be taken personally. Narcissism drives depression so the only cure is to think less of ourselves and our opinions and we will be much happier. Remember, depression always results from taking ones self too seriously. Also keep in mind that by your own admissions you are significantly less traveled than others on this forum so it makes no sense to qualify yourself as some kind of keeper of IFB distinctives or teachings? Having been the member of what? two churches maybe three your entire life? Come on Jim, I doubt you have any idea the variances of belief among fundamental Baptists out there. Doesn't mean they are not saved, not IFB or not sincere. Face it Jim, you have some kooky ideas that most wouldn't consider agreeing with yourself and they have come out at times here. Example: tracing modern "baptist" churches to John the Baptist or your stand on Christmas trees and whatnot. These variances have nothing to do with the virgin Birth, Deity of Christ, new birth, eternal security, etc..and most importantly none of these variances are new. You would think just like them had you been raised in their churches. No? tell me when the last time was that you actually disagreed with and contended with your own pastor?....Exactly. I hope this little illustration helps you understand that IFB covers allot more ground than your little country church teachings. Because of this I also recommend that we not delude ourselves into thinking we are defending the faith once delivered to the saints in these peripheral debates. On this forum, all we are really defending is our own opinions of these issues. Everyone here claims regeneration and indwelling and study so what gives? I have read the posts in these latest threads and can see why each party sees the issues differently. I usually don't agree with either side completely to be honest but it is still interesting sometimes and things have been learned that may not otherwise have been. This thread of speculation over how people in the OT, and the Gospels got regenerated (if they did at all) is just that - speculation. Until someone can produce OT (only) Scripture that clearly explains they believed exactly what we believe now (only we do in hindsight-see the difference?) and were regenerated just like us now, this subject will always be speculation, peripheral and of little import for us now. Perhaps everyone should just relax and try to persuade with Scripture and not emotion.....if the Scripture won't change minds then add some prayer for each other. If that still doesn't work...keep praying. If all else fails perhaps we should prayerfully consider what the opposing opinions are saying and study it out thoroughly. You never know, we may learn something new. At the very least we would be better prepared to attempt correction if we truly researched the matter ourselves (in the Bible and not other men's book opinions) instead of jumping the gun with name calling and accusations. Just some input from one of the only self described regular joes on this forum.
  14. Feel better? Reaping and sowing Dave Ok Jim, thanks
  15. Mike, I disagree with your commentary on this and I do not think it changes the meaning of the Scripture that I have already provided. Our Lord was certainly the Rock in several contexts but not the rock in this context. Our Lord went out of His way to name Peter a rock in John for a reason. I have honestly heard preachers make the same claims for over 35 years that you have but I never accepted it because it is not what Scripture says clearly here. There is always some extra-Biblical agenda at work with these "tall tales" IMO> Similar to our fear of using the clear Biblical term bishop instead of term pastor...the same tall tale applies in this fear of Peter being left in charge by the Lord. He was however because God says he was and not because the RCC says he was. Also, whether the other apostles liked or accepted or bucked this fact is irrelevant to this passage. Purposely changing or ignoring clear written Scripture simply because the RCC claims something is sad exegesis. The RCC is hardly the standard by which Scripture should be interpreted by true believers. Not that you personally are claiming this but others are or will in my experience. In addition, our Lord said nothing of this sort (below) to any other disciple: John 21: 15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs. 16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep. 18 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, When thou wast young, thou girdedst thyself, and walkedst whither thou wouldest: but when thou shalt be old, thou shalt stretch forth thy hands, and another shall gird thee, and carry thee whither thou wouldest not. 19 This spake he, signifying by what death he should glorify God. And when he had spoken this, he saith unto him, Follow me. Nor did our Lord say anything close to this to any other disciple: Luke 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren. I don't personally care who the Lord left in charge or how the apostles ranked. I only care about accurate interpretation regardless of what false religions teach or believe. Just food for thought..