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Holy Spirit and the Rapture


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#1 Kayla

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 03:49 PM

I have heard it preached as of late that the Holy Spirit will be taken out at the Rapture, if so who convicts men of their sin during the tribulation because the Bible does emphatically that people will be saved during the Tribulation.

Any thoughts?

#2 Jerry

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 03:59 PM

The Holy Spirit will still be on earth, much like He was prior to this church age. What will happen is He will step out of the way and no longer hold back the Antichrist (and evil to some extent), which will then allow that man of sin to rise into power and rule the world for 7 years, causing much destruction and leading so many astray.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The words "withholdeth" and "letteth" are both the same Greek word, meaning to hold down - or as we would say, to hold back. The Holy Spirit will hold back the Antichrist until it is His perfect timing for the endtimes to come to pass. He will not be gone - He is omnipresent, after all - however, the work that He will do will change.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

#3 "I am chief"

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 05:55 PM

The Holy Spirit will still be on earth, much like He was prior to this church age.

He will not be gone - He is omnipresent, after all - however, the work that He will do will change.


Jerry, I need to study this more deeply. It seems this particular point/doctrine has very few scriptures to lead me. I suppose I would need to break out the help tools to understand it better. I had always thought of Him removing His presence from men "taken out of the way" but, had never really connected His omnipresence with this. I have all the scripture references, I just need to spend time on it but, the position you present seems very plausible to me. Thanks and Happy Thanksgiving!

#4 Kayla

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Posted 26 November 2009 - 09:34 PM

The Holy Spirit will still be on earth, much like He was prior to this church age. What will happen is He will step out of the way and no longer hold back the Antichrist (and evil to some extent), which will then allow that man of sin to rise into power and rule the world for 7 years, causing much destruction and leading so many astray.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The words "withholdeth" and "letteth" are both the same Greek word, meaning to hold down - or as we would say, to hold back. The Holy Spirit will hold back the Antichrist until it is His perfect timing for the endtimes to come to pass. He will not be gone - He is omnipresent, after all - however, the work that He will do will change.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.


Can you define what the Holy Spirit's role was in the Old Testament?? Sorry just another question that arose when I was reading your reply.

Because in my mind the Holy Spirit some how retakes the role he had before he came to dwell in Christians after the ascension of Jesus. Considering people were saved during the Old Testament time, what was his role at that time to the believer? And will his role indeed be like unto that of what it was before the church age.

#5 heartstrings

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 01:36 AM

All believers are now indwelled with the Holy Ghost. But at the rapture, all of us will be gone.

#6 Covenanter

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 07:06 AM

Is there a valid contextual reason why the withholder should be considered to be the Holy Spirit, or that the events should take place after the rapture?

Bear in mind that Paul was writing in AD 50, & the temple of God was still standing, even though under the sentence of destruction.

The "who" & "what" at that time could be the Jerusalem Christians & Jerusalem Church. Just as in the days of Noah & Lot, destruction took place after the removal of the believers to safety. We know that the James was murdered & subsequently the Jerusalem Christians fled the city when they saw the warning signs Jesus had given them.

Also Paul wrote 2T2 to say what would take place before the second coming for vindication & judgment. (2T1) During his travels, he was always eager to collect aid for the Jerusalem Christians.

#7 "I am chief"

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 08:33 AM


The Holy Spirit will still be on earth, much like He was prior to this church age. What will happen is He will step out of the way and no longer hold back the Antichrist (and evil to some extent), which will then allow that man of sin to rise into power and rule the world for 7 years, causing much destruction and leading so many astray.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-10 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

The words "withholdeth" and "letteth" are both the same Greek word, meaning to hold down - or as we would say, to hold back. The Holy Spirit will hold back the Antichrist until it is His perfect timing for the endtimes to come to pass. He will not be gone - He is omnipresent, after all - however, the work that He will do will change.

Genesis 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

Isaiah 59:19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.


Can you define what the Holy Spirit's role was in the Old Testament?? Sorry just another question that arose when I was reading your reply.

Because in my mind the Holy Spirit some how retakes the role he had before he came to dwell in Christians after the ascension of Jesus. Considering people were saved during the Old Testament time, what was his role at that time to the believer? And will his role indeed be like unto that of what it was before the church age.


Kayla,
This will take some time and effort on Jerry's part. There is so much the Holy Spirit did in the O.T. What a great study in and of itself, I would enjoy participating in this with you Kayla.

If Jerry doesn't already have the information pulled together, I could see a great sermon/devotion/study as a result. I just performed a quick search and found 273 verses with "spirit" or "Spirit" in the O.T. Not all of them refer to the Holy Spirit.

#8 Kayla

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Posted 27 November 2009 - 09:06 PM

I know I have been doing some research myself on the subject.

#9 Eric Stahl

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 10:32 AM

John 16:7-8 KJV Indicates that the comforter would reprove sin when He came into the believers. We are the salt of the earth. One of our purposes is to

hold back corruption while we are here. He will never leave us. When we die or are taken up at the rapture He will take us to Jesus. We will be taken to

heaven before the antichrist comes to power. The Holy spirit will also stop restraining sin on the earth. 2 Thessalonians 2:3-12

In the old testament, saints could be indwelt by the Holy spirit for a time to do a work for God. For example, King Saul lost the Holy Spirit after God rejected him.

Edited by Eric Stahl, 05 December 2011 - 10:33 AM.


#10 Invicta

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Posted 05 December 2011 - 04:50 PM

The whole Christian Church, early writers, later pre reformationist, the rejormers, baptists and non baptists alike, apart from Rome, declared that the "let" or hindrance in 2 Thess, was The Roman Empire and the Emperor, untill about 2-300 years ago, then many adopted thge jesuit teaching that it wass future. This was fulfilled when Constantine removed the empire to the east, thus making was for the papal system, which later took over the empire, and still occupies that role.

#11 Eric Stahl

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Posted 06 December 2011 - 09:07 AM

Invicta,

It is the Mystery of iniquity or evil that is being let or hindered, not the church.

#12 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 04:37 AM

In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit is always referred to as "coming upon" someone...not indwelling people as with Christians today.

There are many verses that speak of this...

Judges 6:34
But the Spirit of the LORD came upon Gideon, and he blew a trumpet; and Abiezer was gathered after him.

Other verses: Numbers 24:2, Judges 3:10, 11:29, 14:19, I Samuel 10:10 and 11:6, II Chronicles 15:1 and 24:20...

Apparently, this "coming upon" individuals was to empower them to accomplish something for God.

The only time that I've found in the Old Testament, that the Holy Spirit came upon someone without leaving was with David.

I Samuel 16:13
Then Samuel took the horn of oil, and anointed him in the midst of his brethren: and the Spirit of the LORD came upon David from that day forward. So Samuel rose up, and went to Ramah.

However, it only says that the Spirit "came upon" him...not indwelt him.

#13 Eric Stahl

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:41 AM

Jesus said "John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,I will send Him unto you."

The Holy Spirit is not omnipresent according to Jesus.

John 16:8 tells us the Comforter or Holy Spirit is to reprove sin.

#14 Invicta

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 07:26 PM

Invicta,

It is the Mystery of iniquity or evil that is being let or hindered, not the church.


I didn't say it ws the church. It ws the papacy that was hindered by the continuance of the Roman Empire.

#15 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 09 December 2011 - 09:09 PM

Jesus said "John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,I will send Him unto you."

The Holy Spirit is not omnipresent according to Jesus.

John 16:8 tells us the Comforter or Holy Spirit is to reprove sin.


:jaw: Did you just say that the Holy Spirit isn't omnipresent?!?!? I don't see how you arrived at that conclusion from the verse you included.

If the Holy Spirit isn't omnipresent, then how can he possibly indwell ALL believers throughout the world...at the same time?

The Bible makes it clear that the Holy Spirit has the same attributes as God the Father and Jesus.

The Holy Spirit is...

Omnipresent - Psalm 139:7
Whither shall I go from thy Spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence?

Omniscient - I Corinthians 2:10-11
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things; yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Omnipotent - Genesis 1:2
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Eternal - Hebrews 9:14
How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

#16 Eric Stahl

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 11:50 AM

To No Nicolaitans

Jesus said "John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,I will send Him unto you."

When Jesus was there the comforter or Holy Spirit was not there.

God is Spirit and Omnipresent.

Where did you get that little purple face with the dropping jaw? I love it !!!!!!

#17 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 10 December 2011 - 09:33 PM

To No Nicolaitans

Jesus said "John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart,I will send Him unto you."

When Jesus was there the comforter or Holy Spirit was not there.

God is Spirit and Omnipresent.

Where did you get that little purple face with the dropping jaw? I love it !!!!!!


You're reading too much into that. Jesus was referring to the fact that after he left, the Holy Spirit would come to indwell believers.

The Holy Spirit is God...sharing all the same attributes.

Again I ask, "if" the Holy Spirit isn't omnipresent, then how can he indwell every individual believer...at the same time?

"If" the Holy Spirit isn't omnipresent, then how is he able to...reprove the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8)?

People all over the world are sinning...at the same time. There are people all over the world, whom the Holy Spirit reproves of sin, righteousness, and judgment...at the same time.

Eric, does your church hold this doctrine? If not, you need to be forthright with your church and resign as a Sunday School teacher. At least be forthright enough to inform your pastor that you disagree with their position on the Holy Spirit's attributes, and allow him to decide whether you continue teaching or not.

If your church does hold this doctrine... :tapping:

To find the "jaw drop" and other emoticons...there is a smiley face located on the reply box. Click on it, and a tool bar appears below the reply box. Directly under that tool bar you will see the words "Show All"...click on "Show All". A new window will pop up with ALL of the available emoticons. To add one to your reply, click on the smiley you want to use. If you like one of the faces in the first tool bar that appears, you can just click on that face without clicking "Show All".

#18 Eric Stahl

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Posted 11 December 2011 - 02:58 PM

To No Nicolaitans,

You're reading too much into that. Jesus was referring to the fact that after he left, the Holy Spirit would come to indwell believers.

The Holy Spirit is God...sharing all the same attributes.

Again I ask, "if" the Holy Spirit isn't omnipresent, then how can he indwell every individual believer...at the same time?


"If" the Holy Spirit isn't omnipresent, then how is he able to...reprove the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment (John 16:8)?

Ok, you make a good point. Do you think the Holy Spirit was there with Jesus but not to indwell the Christians till Jesus left?

Edited by Eric Stahl, 11 December 2011 - 03:00 PM.


#19 Invicta

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 07:08 PM

Is there a valid contextual reason why the withholder should be considered to be the Holy Spirit, or that the events should take place after the rapture?


No ther isn't.

The teaching that the holy spirit will be removed is a Plymouth Brethren teaching, by wrenching a scripture completely out of its context.

Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.

This, of course, referred to the time God Gave them to repent whilst Noah built the ark.

#20 LindaR

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Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:12 PM

I believe that the INFLUENCE of the Holy Spirit indwelling the Church will be removed at the time of the Rapture. Since the Holy Spirit is God, He is omnipresent, He will not disappear. He will work as He did during the OT time...He will not INDWELL those who get saved during the tribulation, but He will COME UPON those people.




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