[Amaryllis]

I've started this topic because it was briefly mentioned in the book reviews, but I want to know your opinion on this type of entertainment. This is not much different from the Disney movies, only that it comes from Japan; however, the themes are more or less the same: magical girls, spells, romance, fantasy, slice of life etc.
Many Christians indulge in fiction, so I was wondering if you enjoy it or do you think it might be something to be kept out the way. Somehow, I find it 'safe' to watch because it's just a cartoon without involving real people, but there are some anime series that must be avoided at all costs.

This post has been edited by Amaryllis: 14 July 2010 - 10:23 AM

[Rick Schworer]

I probably wouldn't let my kids watch Anime, but mostly for the less spiritual reason that Anime is really stupid.

[HappyChristian]

Amaryllis, on 14 July 2010 - 10:22 AM, said:

I've started this topic because it was briefly mentioned in the book reviews, but I want to know your opinion on this type of entertainment. This is not much different from the Disney movies, only that it comes from Japan; however, the themes are more or less the same: magical girls, spells, romance, fantasy, slice of life etc.
Many Christians indulge in fiction, so I was wondering if you enjoy it or do you think it might be something to be kept out the way. Somehow, I find it 'safe' to watch because it's just a cartoon without involving real people, but there are some anime series that must be avoided at all costs.

Fiction is one thing, but magic and spells something else again. Animation isn't a problem, imo, unless it includes things that God forbids - like magic (which is witchcraft).

[John81]

HappyChristian, on 14 July 2010 - 10:35 AM, said:

Fiction is one thing, but magic and spells something else again. Animation isn't a problem, imo, unless it includes things that God forbids - like magic (which is witchcraft).

:thumb: We are always learning something and this is especially true of children. What are children learning as they watch anime? Are they learning positive, Christ-honouring lessons? Are they learning the ways of the world? Are they learning to accept that which God says is sin?

[Crushmaster]

If it's secular, no. Though I'm not sure if I've seen Christian anime...
God bless,
Joel ><>.

[Annie]

I'm not that familiar with anime...but, just going by your description, I'd say our kids wouldn't watch it. It looks and sounds banal and insipid. "Magical" content doesn't bother me at all if it's presented correctly--our kids enjoy reading MacDonald, Lewis, Tolkien, Grimm, Carroll, Mother Goose, etc. and have watched the Narnia and LOTR movies (only after reading the books); but I've discouraged them from developing a taste for any kind of modern romance, including so-called "Christian romance." They probably won't be allowed to read or watch the Janette Oke series...The jury's still out on that one.

As far as it "just being a cartoon"...I believe that even though cartoons aren't "real people" they have real effects on how person views the world, and, in a child's case, can definitely shape minds, morals, ideas, etc.

I wouldn't say that someone (mature) who watches anime, "Love Comes Softly," Disney movies, etc., is doing wrong. I read and enjoyed the Harry Potter books, but would never allow my kids to read them until they reach maturity and their values have been cemented.

[Rick Schworer]

Harry Potter is wicked and shouldn't be supported by any Christian. Teens are trying witchcraft and experimenting with Satanism thanks to the Harry Potter series. I know someone who is probably demon possessed as an end result of this stuff. I don't care how enjoyable the stories are, they're wicked and from the pit of Hell and they're leading kids there.

[amblivion]

Quote

Teens are trying witchcraft and experimenting with Satanism thanks to the Harry Potter series.

Do you have proof to back up your statement?

[Annie]

amblivion, on 14 July 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Do you have proof to back up your statement?

Not to sidetrack the discussion (there have been other threads on this topic), but I've heard a lot of nebulous claims like this...If the statement is true, then I would not fault the books, but the worldview that has already been developed in the kids who (allegedly) try this stuff. The poor things don't have the discernment to understand that the kind of magic in fairy tales, Narnia, Middle Earth, Mary Poppins, Dickens, etc., is fictional...a mere plot element that simply makes for an exciting story. (And that's one reason my own kids will not be allowed to read the books until we know for sure that they have developed the kind of discernment needed to enjoy the books without making more of the magic than the books intend.) No one I know who has read/enjoyed these kinds of books/movies has ever thought about trying sorcery (and I know a lot of people--Christian and nonChristian--who have these books and movies on their shelves). Now, that's not to say that there aren't books, movies, and other media which DO promote wrong thinking about the wrong kind of magic/necromancy/sorcery. Certainly, discernment is needed, and not everyone will agree where the lines should be drawn.

I would go so far as to say that kids who are not exposed to MacDonald, Lewis, and Tolkien in particular are IMO missing out on excellent opportunities to develop their moral imaginations. I'm not equating these works with the Bible, of course, and I'm not trying to say that somehow great men who lived before our time weren't "complete" w/o these things...just saying that for kids growing up now, in our confusing culture, these works and others like them are immensely valuable.

This post has been edited by Annie: 14 July 2010 - 03:13 PM

[CPR]

Annie, on 14 July 2010 - 03:04 PM, said:

Not to sidetrack the discussion (there have been other threads on this topic), but I've heard a lot of nebulous claims like this...If the statement is true, then I would not fault the books, but the worldview that has already been developed in the kids who (allegedly) try this stuff. The poor things don't have the discernment to understand that the kind of magic in fairy tales, Narnia, Middle Earth, Mary Poppins, Dickens, etc., is fictional...a mere plot element that simply makes for an exciting story. (And that's one reason my own kids will not be allowed to read the books until we know for sure that they have developed the kind of discernment needed to enjoy the books without making more of the magic than the books intend.) No one I know who has read/enjoyed these kinds of books/movies has ever thought about trying sorcery (and I know a lot of people--Christian and nonChristian--who have these books and movies on their shelves). Now, that's not to say that there aren't books, movies, and other media which DO promote wrong thinking about the wrong kind of magic/necromancy/sorcery. Certainly, discernment is needed, and not everyone will agree where the lines should be drawn.

I would go so far as to say that kids who are not exposed to MacDonald, Lewis, and Tolkien in particular are IMO missing out on excellent opportunities to develop their moral imaginations. I'm not equating these works with the Bible, of course, and I'm not trying to say that somehow great men who lived before our time weren't "complete" w/o these things...just saying that for kids growing up now, in our confusing culture, these works and others like them are immensely valuable.

Good post! There are some great works out there that have literary value but aren't necessarily "Christian." Of course children need to understand what is real and what isn't and that occurs and different ages for different children so only parents can really determine if certain things are okay for their children. I remember as a child pretending to be characters in movies and books (the Little Mermaid, Cinderella, Annie and Little House on the Prairie were favorites!) I don't think that this is harmful as long as a child understands that it is make believe. It can help them develop their creativity and imagination, as Annie mentioned. It makes me sad to think that there are wonderful pieces of literature that some people may not be able to enjoy because of fear that is perhaps unfounded.

Also interesting point, I haven't heard of many Christians objecting to C.S. Lewis (perhaps because he was a known Christian) but his works also contain magic and fantasy.

[Rick Schworer]

amblivion, on 14 July 2010 - 02:41 PM, said:

Do you have proof to back up your statement?

Did you not read my entire post?

Are you supporting a worldly book series that's primary focus is witchcraft, something God hates and calls an abomination, and that is aimed towards CHILDREN?

Even IF there's "no harm done" do you think it pleases God? Do you think it displeases God?

Maybe you think He just doesn't care. He doesn't care about what we read, what we watch, what we do with our money, what we....


Duet. 18:9-13, "When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
[12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
[13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God."


He does care, and all indication in scripture is that He hates it.

If you or anyone else here is a staunch supporter of the Harry Potter series, regardless of what the Bible says, then I'm not going to waste my time looking for articles online to post in links here for you.

You should reject the Harry Potter series PRIMARILY because of Scripture, and secondarily because of the fruit of it.

[amblivion]

Rick Schworer, on 14 July 2010 - 05:03 PM, said:

Did you not read my entire post?

Are you supporting a worldly book series that's primary focus is witchcraft, something God hates and calls an abomination, and that is aimed towards CHILDREN?

Even IF there's "no harm done" do you think it pleases God? Do you think it displeases God?

Maybe you think He just doesn't care. He doesn't care about what we read, what we watch, what we do with our money, what we....


Duet. 18:9-13, "When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
[12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
[13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God."


He does care, and all indication in scripture is that He hates it.

If you or anyone else here is a staunch supporter of the Harry Potter series, regardless of what the Bible says, then I'm not going to waste my time looking for articles online to post in links here for you.

You should reject the Harry Potter series PRIMARILY because of Scripture, and secondarily because of the fruit of it.

Yes, I read your whole post. It did not have Scripture as to why the Harry Potter series is wrong. You just simply stated that it was evil and then went on to make the claim that it is causing teens to try witchcraft. The only point to my post was to get evidence. I can make any statement I want, but it does not neccessarily make it true. Your second post has actual Scripture.

This post has been edited by amblivion: 14 July 2010 - 05:31 PM

[John81]

amblivion, on 14 July 2010 - 05:30 PM, said:

Yes, I read your whole post. It did not have Scripture as to why the Harry Potter series is wrong. You just simply stated that it was evil and then went on to make the claim that it is causing teens to try witchcraft. The only point to my post was to get evidence. I can make any statement I want, but it does not neccessarily make it true. Your second post has actual Scripture.

While we probably shouldn't, many of us do post here stating biblical truths without putting the actual verses in the post because we figure everyone here is familiar with it.

[HappyChristian]

One thing that any of us need to remember is the principle behind the verse: "I will set no wicked thing before mine eyes: I hate the work of them that turn aside; it shall not cleave to me." Psalm 101:3

People justify magic in children's work by saying it's only fiction. But the fact remains that magic is real, even if it's presented as cutesie or fun. And it is heartily condemned by God. In fact, He proclaimed that, under the law, a witch was not to live. I know we are not under the law now, and I am not calling for the death of witches. But think with me: if God views witchcraft as worthy of death, what in the world are we doing allowing our children to watch (or read) even "good" magic.

The NT continues this thought by telling us in Eph. 5:11 "And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." When we read or watch something, we could technically say we are fellowshipping with them. Children especially identify with that which they read or see. And that makes it extra dangerous.

Harry Potter exemplifies a "good" warlock, who fights evil. Lesson taught? That there is good evil. Oops, I mean good magic (same thing...). But there isn't any such thing.

As far as good literature that is not Christian: yes, there is good stuff out there, that doesn't go against scripture. There is a lot of good literature. So, why would be want our children to read stuff that goes against scriptural principle?

BTW - Annie, I agree 100% with the "Christian Romance" not being the thing to read. I personally know of girls who were allowed to read this as teens and made very unwise decisions regarding marriage: because the only concern was "love." That isn't something someone made up - I have several names on the tip of my tongue, girls I watched grow up. It's heartbreaking.

I work for a library, in our museum. I used to work the circulation desk, and I paged. One thing I noticed was the absolute fascination that young folks have for witchcraft: they were among the most popular books the kids checked out. And that was before Harry Potter ever came along. For some reason, even good kids have a fascination for the occult. Battlements need to be built around them, so that they can grow strong enough spiritually to resist the allure. Watching cutesie shows or reading fun packed books with magic in them isn't the way to do it!

[Annie]

Rick Schworer, on 14 July 2010 - 05:03 PM, said:

Did you not read my entire post?

Are you supporting a worldly book series that's primary focus is witchcraft, something God hates and calls an abomination, and that is aimed towards CHILDREN?

Even IF there's "no harm done" do you think it pleases God? Do you think it displeases God?

Maybe you think He just doesn't care. He doesn't care about what we read, what we watch, what we do with our money, what we....


Duet. 18:9-13, "When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.
[10] There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch,
[11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
[12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.
[13] Thou shalt be perfect with the LORD thy God."


He does care, and all indication in scripture is that He hates it.

If you or anyone else here is a staunch supporter of the Harry Potter series, regardless of what the Bible says, then I'm not going to waste my time looking for articles online to post in links here for you.

You should reject the Harry Potter series PRIMARILY because of Scripture, and secondarily because of the fruit of it.

Rick, just so I understand where you are coming from, do you also denounce every other work of literature/film which centers around fanciful magic (like Cinderella and other fairy tales, A Christmas Carol and other classics, and the work of Lewis, Tolkien, and MacDonald)? If not, how do you distinguish between them? Do you think that waving a magic wand and uttering the words, "Bibbity, Bobbity, Boo," to change rags to a gown is any different than waving a magic wand and uttering, "Accio," to acquire an object?

I guess what I don't understand is how you can equate what Scripture is talking about (Satan worship, paganism, child sacrifice, ordering one's life around superstition, etc.) with fictional/fantastic literature that has no basis in true reality, and uses fanciful magic merely as a plot device.

[DennisDurty]

Annie, on 14 July 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

Rick, just so I understand where you are coming from, do you also denounce every other work of literature/film which centers around fanciful magic (like Cinderella and other fairy tales, A Christmas Carol and other classics, and the work of Lewis, Tolkien, and MacDonald)? If not, how do you distinguish between them? Do you think that waving a magic wand and uttering the words, "Bibbity, Bobbity, Boo," to change rags to a gown is any different than waving a magic wand and uttering, "Accio," to acquire an object?

I guess what I don't understand is how you can equate what Scripture is talking about (Satan worship, paganism, child sacrifice, ordering one's life around superstition, etc.) with fictional/fantastic literature that has no basis in true reality, and uses fanciful magic merely as a plot device.

If we are strong enough, yes, completely get rid of the TV and all books that have anything to do with witchcraft or magic. I'm surely not strong enough, I pray one day I'll have the strength and mind to get rid of my TV and everything else that brings garbage into my house.

It's definitely a tough subject and I find myself drawn to Lewis and Tolkien but in reality...I don't find it brings us any closer to God or really does anything for us spiritually so it must be for the flesh. One of the toughest subjects I've ever come across...I know what I should do (throw the TV out the window) but I just don't do it.

[John81]

Annie, on 14 July 2010 - 06:10 PM, said:

Rick, just so I understand where you are coming from, do you also denounce every other work of literature/film which centers around fanciful magic (like Cinderella and other fairy tales, A Christmas Carol and other classics, and the work of Lewis, Tolkien, and MacDonald)? If not, how do you distinguish between them? Do you think that waving a magic wand and uttering the words, "Bibbity, Bobbity, Boo," to change rags to a gown is any different than waving a magic wand and uttering, "Accio," to acquire an object?

I guess what I don't understand is how you can equate what Scripture is talking about (Satan worship, paganism, child sacrifice, ordering one's life around superstition, etc.) with fictional/fantastic literature that has no basis in true reality, and uses fanciful magic merely as a plot device.

Witchcraft is "true reality" and not something to be toyed with. In high school a friend was toying with various aspects of witchcraft, things went wrong and his house burned down.

There have been those who practice witchcraft (by a variety of names) in this area who are known to have accomplished "magical" things.

If one proclaims fictional witchcraft to be acceptable, then that would logically extend to fictional works depicting "good" homosexuality or "good" adultery.

[BroMatt]

Let's keep this topic on Anime.

Anyone, feel free to start a Harry Potter thread. Just trying to keep this organized. :saint2:

[John81]

BroMatt, on 15 July 2010 - 08:39 AM, said:

Let's keep this topic on Anime.

Anyone, feel free to start a Harry Potter thread. Just trying to keep this organized. :saint2:

Not disagreeing, just asking. Isn't anime and Harry Potter linked by the magic/witchcraft aspect? It seemed to me this was the main issue against anime, to which someone mentioned Harry Potter is a more readily noticable example of the ill effects of children involving themselves with magic/witchcraft.

I wasn't saved until I was 18 and in my own childhood I was drawn to cartoons, books, TV shows and movies that featured "powers" (magic/witchcraft). They all share a common thread, a common theme, yet the end of them is the same.

[Rick Schworer]

BroMatt, on 15 July 2010 - 08:39 AM, said:

Let's keep this topic on Anime.

Anyone, feel free to start a Harry Potter thread. Just trying to keep this organized. :saint2:

I just saw online that there's an Anime Bible coming out.