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Dealing with rejectors.

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Posted


Thomas,
Let me get this straight.....
If I am sterile and my wife ends up childless..she goes to Hell?
Or....if my wife gets pregnant, and the baby is stillborn...and because of complications, she requires an emergency hysterectomy and we end up with no kids.....she still goes to Hell?

There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a prOBlem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22

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Posted


There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a prOBlem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22


By that logic, real Christians don't have cancer, heart attacks, Alzheimer's, diabetes, strokes, or any other medical prOBlems. Guess hospitals are just for unsaved people. Might as well shut those down and save a lot of money b/c they're going to hell anyway.

Wait, that doesn't seem right. I'm pretty sure one of the Gospel writers was a physician... oh yeah, it was Luke! :casse-mur-briques:

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Posted


There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a prOBlem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22


You dodged the question Tommy, does his wife go to Hell or not?

What if she received Christ before she was married?

Can she lose her salvation?

Would that mean that only men have eternal security?

Or does that mean even though she exercised faith in Jesus Christ, if a woman ever has prOBlems with having children (or at least for the first one) that would mean she was no longer part of the elect even though we all thought she was before?

If a woman can't have a baby, but has tried to receive Christ, if she then has a baby can she at that point join the elect or she permanently doomed because she wasn't part of the elect the first time she put her faith in Jesus so there's no point in thinking she can become part of the elect the second time?

According to Tommyism (at this point it's no longer Calvinism), must a woman have a baby FIRST therefore qualifying her to be able to receive Christ afterwards?

How does that play into the age of accountability?

Break it down for us, please.

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Posted

I'm usually a patient man. Those on this board who know me know that I do not get drawn into the different arguments that rage on from time to time. However, I must ask the moderators, if any are following this thread, why someone who is promoting such heresy is allowed to continue in posting to what is supposed to be an Independent, Fundamental, KJV, Baptist message board. This "troll" as some have stated is doing nothing but stirring up strife and to my knowledge has not started one post which would be edifying to those reading it. I could understand if it was someone who was willing to learn the truth, but this man refuses to defend himself against Bible verses which OBviously tear his pet theory apart.

Again, I know I usually do not get drawn into these, but..........Enough is Enough.


That's just my :twocents: . Take it or leave it.

In Christ,
PreacherE

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Posted


There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a prOBlem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22



Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Sir, in case you don't know, a "eunuch from his mother's womb" is somebody who was born sterile. If a man is born sterile is that s "spiritual fault"?
If a woman was born without the capacity to bear children, is it her fault as well?

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Posted


I'm usually a patient man. Those on this board who know me know that I do not get drawn into the different arguments that rage on from time to time. However, I must ask the moderators, if any are following this thread, why someone who is promoting such heresy is allowed to continue in posting to what is supposed to be an Independent, Fundamental, KJV, Baptist message board. This "troll" as some have stated is doing nothing but stirring up strife and to my knowledge has not started one post which would be edifying to those reading it. I could understand if it was someone who was willing to learn the truth, but this man refuses to defend himself against Bible verses which OBviously tear his pet theory apart.

Again, I know I usually do not get drawn into these, but..........Enough is Enough.


That's just my :twocents: . Take it or leave it.

In Christ,
PreacherE



Good point. It's hard not to feed the trolls.

It's a catch 22. I think to myself, do I respond so this knucklehead's heresy is exposed, or do I ignore him and hope he goes away?

Pr. 26:4-5, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

I think it would be better if the mods would just ban him, he hasn't brought anything edifying to OB at all, only the complete opposite.

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Posted




I think it would be better if the mods would just ban him, he hasn't brought anything edifying to OB at all, only the complete opposite.

Says comic book promoter. :rolleyes:

Well, let me tell ya, MY children did grew up with Jesus, not with "Superman", ScoOBy Dog, or Harry Potter. And they certainly follow the Bible, not man's interpretation of the Bible!

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Posted


Says comic book promoter. :rolleyes:

Well, let me tell ya, MY children did not grew up with Jesus, not with "Superman", ScoOBy Dog, or Harry Potter. And they certainly follow the Bible, not man's interpretation of the Bible!


Tom, let me learn of you. You never answered my questions, so I'll repeat post #128 about heartstrings' hypothetical (but real for many Christians) situation regarding his wife:


You dodged the question Tommy, does his wife go to Hell or not?

What if she received Christ before she was married?

Can she lose her salvation?

Would that mean that only men have eternal security?

Or does that mean even though she exercised faith in Jesus Christ, if a woman ever has prOBlems with having children (or at least for the first one) that would mean she was no longer part of the elect even though we all thought she was before?

If a woman can't have a baby, but has tried to receive Christ, if she then has a baby can she at that point join the elect or she permanently doomed because she wasn't part of the elect the first time she put her faith in Jesus so there's no point in thinking she can become part of the elect the second time?

According to Tommyism (at this point it's no longer Calvinism), must a woman have a baby FIRST therefore qualifying her to be able to receive Christ afterwards?

How does that play into the age of accountability?

Break it down for us, please.

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Posted

I don't know, Rick. In a way it can be good; it made me go and study the verse (1 Timothy 2:15) to see what it meant. I may not understand all the verse says because each vese of the Bibgle is like a goldmine but, I think I have a working knowledge of it now. I beleive that if Jesus really lives in one's heart, he will want to know all about God's word. Some folks have trouble understanding some things and God will reveal them to us if we diligently seek to know. Others seem to hold to what they've been taught without checking it out for themselves. But then there are many who don't really wnat to know God's word and just twist it in order to propagate their agenda.


2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

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Posted

Thomas
You didn't answer my last question.....

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Sir, in case you don't know, a "eunuch from his mother's womb" is somebody who was born sterile. If a man is born sterile is that s "spiritual fault"? And if a woman was born without the capacity to bear children, is it her fault as well?

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Posted


Thomas
You didn't answer my last question.....

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Sir, in case you don't know, a "eunuch from his mother's womb" is somebody who was born sterile. If a man is born sterile is that s "spiritual fault"? And if a woman was born without the capacity to bear children, is it her fault as well?

We must always differentiate between men and women. A eunuch who is born that way may or may not be that way because of his sin. He can be saved, regardless. As per 1 Timothy 2:15, a sterile woman cannot be saved, unless she TRULY repents, accepts the Lord, and is healed from her sterility. (Psalm 91:10)

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Posted


We must always differentiate between men and women. A eunuch who is born that way may or may not be that way because of his sin. He can be saved, regardless. As per 1 Timothy 2:15, a sterile woman cannot be saved, unless she TRULY repents, accepts the Lord, and is healed from her sterility. (Psalm 91:10)


Yes, a person must repent and truly beleive on Jesus in their heart.
Now I will show you this verse again.....

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

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Posted

Thomas Cooper is a perfect illustration of what happens to a Christian who can't rightly divide the word of God. Mr. Cooper thinks that God dropped the whole Bible out of heaven at one time and it fell into the lap of a white, male, American, Calivinist preacher in 1850.

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Posted


[Mr. Cooper] refuses to defend himself against Bible verses which OBviously tear his pet theory apart.

I'd agree 100% here, PreacherE. I keep waiting, but I'm starting to think the netherworld will freeze over before he's willing to brave the challenge. What do you say, Mr. Cooper? Care to explain why some verses which use masculine terms apply to females, and others which use the same terms cannot apply to females? Care to address this gaping hole in your hermeneutics? No, of course you don't, because there is no acceptable answer, and you know it. Why else would you have dodged the question the three or four other times I've asked it?

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Posted


We must always differentiate between men and women. A eunuch who is born that way may or may not be that way because of his sin. He can be saved, regardless. As per 1 Timothy 2:15, a sterile woman cannot be saved, unless she TRULY repents, accepts the Lord, and is healed from her sterility. (Psalm 91:10)


What about the women in this verse, Thomas?

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

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Posted


What about the women in this verse, Thomas?

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

Read this context. It merely says that husband may distract the woman from doing the Lord's work. This has nothing to do with salvation.

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Posted


And your point is valid? Please read John 6:47- 58
John 6:47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

So have you eaten Jesus' physical flesh or drank his physical blood at anytime since you were born? I would say not. So by your own admission to what the bible says, I guess you don't have eternal life right?


I am going to post this reply by Kleptes once again Thomas. You have never dealt with this set of Scripture yet. Now remember you must not interpret this passage to mean anything other than it says. So Kleptes question still stands have you eaten of Jesus physical flesh and drank his blood? According to the way you read Scripture it should be a requirement for salvation. Are you going to deal with this Scripture finally or ignore it like you do everything else you don't have an answer to?
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Posted


Read this context. It merely says that husband may distract the woman from doing the Lord's work. This has nothing to do with salvation.


Sir,
You have said that a woman must have children in order to be saved, correct?
But the woman mentioned in the verse I posted is a virgin, sir. She is not married and never will be; yet she is "holy in body and in spirit" and has given her life over to service to the Lord. Is she unnsaved?

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

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Posted


Sir,
You have said that a woman must have children in order to be saved, correct?

The Bible states so.

But the woman mentioned in the verse I posted is a virgin, sir. She is not married and never will be; yet she is "holy in body and in spirit" and has given her life over to service to the Lord. Is she unnsaved?

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

This does not says that she will never be married. Read this verse in context. It says that family life may distruct true believers from following the Word.

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Posted


The Bible states so.


This does not says that she will never be married. Read this verse in context. It says that family life may distruct true believers from following the Word.

Reading it in context, we see Paul saying:
I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.
How can it be good for the unmarried to remain unmarried and without children if women must bear children to be saved. It's not possible. Your theory doesn't hold in light of other scripture. "Rightly dividing" means comparing scripture with scripture, not using one verse upon which to build a doctrine.

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Posted

She's telling it right, Thomas.

It is OK to choose to stay virgin and never marry...read it in context.

1 Corinthians 7
1Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

2Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

3Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence: and likewise also the wife unto the husband.

4The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.

5Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

6But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.

7For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

8I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, it is good for them if they abide even as I.

9But if they cannot contain, let them marry: for it is better to marry than to burn.("Burn" here means lust...not Hell)

10And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:

11But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

12But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.

13And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.

14For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

15But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

16For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

17But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

18Is any man called being circumcised? let him not become uncircumcised. Is any called in uncircumcision? let him not be circumcised.

19Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

20Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called.

21Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather.

22For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant.

23Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men.

24Brethren, let every man, wherein he is called, therein abide with God.

25Now concerning virgins I have no commandment of the Lord: yet I give my judgment, as one that hath OBtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful.

26I suppose therefore that this is good for the present distress, I say, that it is good for a man so to be.

27Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

28But and if thou marry, thou hast not sinned; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

29But this I say, brethren, the time is short: it remaineth, that both they that have wives be as though they had none;

30And they that weep, as though they wept not; and they that rejoice, as though they rejoiced not; and they that buy, as though they possessed not;

31And they that use this world, as not abusing it: for the fashion of this world passeth away.

32But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

33But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

34There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband.

35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

36But if any man think that he behaveth himself uncomely toward his virgin, if she pass the flower of her age, and need so require, let him do what he will, he sinneth not: let them marry.

37Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

38So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better. 39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

40But she is happier if she so abide, after my judgment: and I think also that I have the Spirit of God.

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Posted

:beatdeadhorse:

Look at how many pages there are of this already. Scripture says if someone is trampling the Word in the mud we should stop casting our pearls before them.

Proverbs has a few things to say about someone who is conducting himself as is Cooper and how we are to deal with them.

We are also told in the NT that those who reject the truth like this we are to shake the dust off our feet as a testimony against them and move on.

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:beatdeadhorse:

Look at how many pages there are of this already. Scripture says if someone is trampling the Word in the mud we should stop casting our pearls before them.

Proverbs has a few things to say about someone who is conducting himself as is Cooper and how we are to deal with them.

We are also told in the NT that those who reject the truth like this we are to shake the dust off our feet as a testimony against them and move on.



I don't see where he has "turned and rent" us yet.

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Posted

Reverend Thomas Cooper


Psalm 119:9 (holy and) Reverend is His Name.

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Psalm 119:9 (holy and) Reverend is His Name.


Are you one of those who's unable to see the difference between name and title?
:smilie_loco:4

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