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#121 CPR

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:25 PM

Pastor Thomas Cooper's profile: "I was born on November 10, 1944 in a small town in Michigan under miraculous conditions. My parents knew I was to be a special child. I lived a horrible life filled with sin and debauchery until February 28, 1951 when I was Saved, Born Again with Jesus Christ as my Personal Savior and cleansed by His Blood shed on the Cross. Amen. At that point, I devoted my entire life to Jesus Christ. I traveled from town to town with my uncle to put on revivals and salvation ministries. I was a champion soul-winner by the age of 12 and already making quite a name for myself in important Christian (Baptist) Circles. I never stopped or grew tired in my work for Jesus Christ, not once! I went on to graduate with honors from Bob Jones University before it went liberal, and furthered my studies at the Denver Conservative Baptist Seminary. Currently I am married with 13 children who have all but grown up and have Godly families of their own. They all do me and the Lord quite proud. I still travel around the Midwest with my wife and various family members to stop by good God-fearing, Bible-preaching, churches giving sermons and organizing potlucks, picnics, trips, protests and pickets. My most recent ministries have included a trip to Orlando, here in Florida, where we protested at the baby-killer "clinics" and managed to save 19 babies from being sent to Hell through abortion. I have been the focus of numerous left-wing conspiracies to attack Jesus Christ and outlaw Christianity and one of my ministries was shut down in the past, but none of that will ever stop me from fighting a good fight for the Lord. Amen and God Bless!"

While this is a fascinating auto-biography, I'm wondering about its veracity.

1. For instance, "I was born on November 10, 1944 in a small town in Michigan under miraculous conditions. My parents knew I was to be a special child. I lived a horrible life filled with sin and debauchery until February 28, 1951 when I was Saved, Born Again with Jesus Christ as my Personal Savior and cleansed by His Blood shed on the Cross."

How much "sin and debauchery" does a six year old really get into?

2. Another claim, "I was a champion soul-winner by the age of 12 and already making quite a name for myself in important Christian (Baptist) Circles."

If Thomas Cooper was this famous in Baptist Circles, why has no one heard of him and they only Internet searches yield a deceased Pastor Cooper and a Pastor Cooper that is not the same person (by our Thomas Cooper's own admission)?


I thought this too when I read his profile. No way a google search would come up with nothing if even one part of this were true. Also, let's not forget that he stated in a post earlier that I called out that he was married in 1957 when he would have only been 13! He later tried to recant and say he was met his wife at 13 and was married at 17. Now I know some men have a hard time remembering their anniversary, but I don't know of any that are 4 years off! :smilie_loco:4

#122 ThomasCooper

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:41 PM

I thought this too when I read his profile. No way a google search would come up with nothing if even one part of this were true. Also, let's not forget that he stated in a post earlier that I called out that he was married in 1957 when he would have only been 13! He later tried to recant and say he was met his wife at 13 and was married at 17. Now I know some men have a hard time remembering their anniversary, but I don't know of any that are 4 years off! :smilie_loco:4

And I don't know any true Christian pastors who are more preoccupied with this or that date than with following the Bible and preaching the Word!

Indeed, I was married to my wife on May 2, 1961 in Gwinn, Michigan.

Glory!

#123 ThomasCooper

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:49 PM

Right, although I don't think the words status and secondary are the clearest terms to use. Of course 1 Timothy 2:15 is referring back to Genesis: it says as plain as day that 1) Adam was created first, and that 2) Eve was the one deceived by Satan. Because these two things are true, women are not to have leadership roles in the church. But I'm not sure how in the world this fact supports your idea that women have to work for their salvation. Nothing in the passage indicates this. In addition, every other Scripture regarding salvation cries out against this heresy. If a person could depend on something he did to get to heaven, then it wouldn't be by grace alone through faith in Christ alone, would it? He could gain heaven through his own merit. And you style yourself a Calvinist? What a joke! Believing "faith plus works" puts you more in the Roman Catholic realm. (And, please, no comments from rabid anti-Calvinists who would say that Calvin might as well have been Catholic. That's not our topic here, and the distinction I'm making is valid.)

I am a true Christian because I follow the Bible and believe what it says. If the Bible says that the woman will be "saved in childbearing" when discussing the implications of Eve's sin, then this is exactly what it means.

Edited by ThomasCooper, 06 August 2010 - 02:57 PM.


#124 Brother Rick

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 02:50 PM

Hey Tom, I hope you get the chance to read my post http://www.onlinebap...194#entry249194 and answer my questions.

#125 heartstrings

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 03:15 PM

Thomas,
Let me get this straight.....
If I am sterile and my wife ends up childless..she goes to Hell?
Or....if my wife gets pregnant, and the baby is stillborn...and because of complications, she requires an emergency hysterectomy and we end up with no kids.....she still goes to Hell?

#126 ThomasCooper

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 03:43 PM

Thomas,
Let me get this straight.....
If I am sterile and my wife ends up childless..she goes to Hell?
Or....if my wife gets pregnant, and the baby is stillborn...and because of complications, she requires an emergency hysterectomy and we end up with no kids.....she still goes to Hell?

There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a problem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22

#127 CPR

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:17 PM

There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a problem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22


By that logic, real Christians don't have cancer, heart attacks, Alzheimer's, diabetes, strokes, or any other medical problems. Guess hospitals are just for unsaved people. Might as well shut those down and save a lot of money b/c they're going to hell anyway.

Wait, that doesn't seem right. I'm pretty sure one of the Gospel writers was a physician... oh yeah, it was Luke! :casse-mur-briques:

#128 Brother Rick

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:23 PM

There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a problem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22


You dodged the question Tommy, does his wife go to Hell or not?

What if she received Christ before she was married?

Can she lose her salvation?

Would that mean that only men have eternal security?

Or does that mean even though she exercised faith in Jesus Christ, if a woman ever has problems with having children (or at least for the first one) that would mean she was no longer part of the elect even though we all thought she was before?

If a woman can't have a baby, but has tried to receive Christ, if she then has a baby can she at that point join the elect or she permanently doomed because she wasn't part of the elect the first time she put her faith in Jesus so there's no point in thinking she can become part of the elect the second time?

According to Tommyism (at this point it's no longer Calvinism), must a woman have a baby FIRST therefore qualifying her to be able to receive Christ afterwards?

How does that play into the age of accountability?

Break it down for us, please.

Edited by Rick Schworer, 06 August 2010 - 04:30 PM.


#129 PreacherE

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:28 PM

I'm usually a patient man. Those on this board who know me know that I do not get drawn into the different arguments that rage on from time to time. However, I must ask the moderators, if any are following this thread, why someone who is promoting such heresy is allowed to continue in posting to what is supposed to be an Independent, Fundamental, KJV, Baptist message board. This "troll" as some have stated is doing nothing but stirring up strife and to my knowledge has not started one post which would be edifying to those reading it. I could understand if it was someone who was willing to learn the truth, but this man refuses to defend himself against Bible verses which obviously tear his pet theory apart.

Again, I know I usually do not get drawn into these, but..........Enough is Enough.


That's just my :twocents: . Take it or leave it.

In Christ,
PreacherE

#130 heartstrings

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:35 PM

There are no ifs, ands, or buts here. If you have this kind of a problem, then you have a spiritual fault within you. You need to repent, pray for forgiveness, and ask Jesus to heal you.
Matthew 21:22



Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Sir, in case you don't know, a "eunuch from his mother's womb" is somebody who was born sterile. If a man is born sterile is that s "spiritual fault"?
If a woman was born without the capacity to bear children, is it her fault as well?

Edited by heartstrings, 06 August 2010 - 04:40 PM.


#131 Brother Rick

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:41 PM

I'm usually a patient man. Those on this board who know me know that I do not get drawn into the different arguments that rage on from time to time. However, I must ask the moderators, if any are following this thread, why someone who is promoting such heresy is allowed to continue in posting to what is supposed to be an Independent, Fundamental, KJV, Baptist message board. This "troll" as some have stated is doing nothing but stirring up strife and to my knowledge has not started one post which would be edifying to those reading it. I could understand if it was someone who was willing to learn the truth, but this man refuses to defend himself against Bible verses which obviously tear his pet theory apart.

Again, I know I usually do not get drawn into these, but..........Enough is Enough.


That's just my :twocents: . Take it or leave it.

In Christ,
PreacherE



Good point. It's hard not to feed the trolls.

It's a catch 22. I think to myself, do I respond so this knucklehead's heresy is exposed, or do I ignore him and hope he goes away?

Pr. 26:4-5, "Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. 5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

I think it would be better if the mods would just ban him, he hasn't brought anything edifying to OB at all, only the complete opposite.

#132 ThomasCooper

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:46 PM

I think it would be better if the mods would just ban him, he hasn't brought anything edifying to OB at all, only the complete opposite.

Says comic book promoter. :rolleyes:

Well, let me tell ya, MY children did grew up with Jesus, not with "Superman", Scooby Dog, or Harry Potter. And they certainly follow the Bible, not man's interpretation of the Bible!

Edited by ThomasCooper, 06 August 2010 - 04:52 PM.


#133 Brother Rick

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:52 PM

Says comic book promoter. :rolleyes:

Well, let me tell ya, MY children did not grew up with Jesus, not with "Superman", Scooby Dog, or Harry Potter. And they certainly follow the Bible, not man's interpretation of the Bible!


Tom, let me learn of you. You never answered my questions, so I'll repeat post #128 about heartstrings' hypothetical (but real for many Christians) situation regarding his wife:


You dodged the question Tommy, does his wife go to Hell or not?

What if she received Christ before she was married?

Can she lose her salvation?

Would that mean that only men have eternal security?

Or does that mean even though she exercised faith in Jesus Christ, if a woman ever has problems with having children (or at least for the first one) that would mean she was no longer part of the elect even though we all thought she was before?

If a woman can't have a baby, but has tried to receive Christ, if she then has a baby can she at that point join the elect or she permanently doomed because she wasn't part of the elect the first time she put her faith in Jesus so there's no point in thinking she can become part of the elect the second time?

According to Tommyism (at this point it's no longer Calvinism), must a woman have a baby FIRST therefore qualifying her to be able to receive Christ afterwards?

How does that play into the age of accountability?

Break it down for us, please.



#134 heartstrings

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 04:58 PM

I don't know, Rick. In a way it can be good; it made me go and study the verse (1 Timothy 2:15) to see what it meant. I may not understand all the verse says because each vese of the Bibgle is like a goldmine but, I think I have a working knowledge of it now. I beleive that if Jesus really lives in one's heart, he will want to know all about God's word. Some folks have trouble understanding some things and God will reveal them to us if we diligently seek to know. Others seem to hold to what they've been taught without checking it out for themselves. But then there are many who don't really wnat to know God's word and just twist it in order to propagate their agenda.


2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. 17Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

#135 heartstrings

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:05 PM

Thomas
You didn't answer my last question.....

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Sir, in case you don't know, a "eunuch from his mother's womb" is somebody who was born sterile. If a man is born sterile is that s "spiritual fault"? And if a woman was born without the capacity to bear children, is it her fault as well?

#136 ThomasCooper

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 05:13 PM

Thomas
You didn't answer my last question.....

Matthew 19:12 For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it.

Sir, in case you don't know, a "eunuch from his mother's womb" is somebody who was born sterile. If a man is born sterile is that s "spiritual fault"? And if a woman was born without the capacity to bear children, is it her fault as well?

We must always differentiate between men and women. A eunuch who is born that way may or may not be that way because of his sin. He can be saved, regardless. As per 1 Timothy 2:15, a sterile woman cannot be saved, unless she TRULY repents, accepts the Lord, and is healed from her sterility. (Psalm 91:10)

#137 heartstrings

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:10 PM

We must always differentiate between men and women. A eunuch who is born that way may or may not be that way because of his sin. He can be saved, regardless. As per 1 Timothy 2:15, a sterile woman cannot be saved, unless she TRULY repents, accepts the Lord, and is healed from her sterility. (Psalm 91:10)


Yes, a person must repent and truly beleive on Jesus in their heart.
Now I will show you this verse again.....

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.

#138 Wilchbla

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 09:58 PM

Thomas Cooper is a perfect illustration of what happens to a Christian who can't rightly divide the word of God. Mr. Cooper thinks that God dropped the whole Bible out of heaven at one time and it fell into the lap of a white, male, American, Calivinist preacher in 1850.

#139 Annie

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Posted 06 August 2010 - 10:17 PM

[Mr. Cooper] refuses to defend himself against Bible verses which obviously tear his pet theory apart.

I'd agree 100% here, PreacherE. I keep waiting, but I'm starting to think the netherworld will freeze over before he's willing to brave the challenge. What do you say, Mr. Cooper? Care to explain why some verses which use masculine terms apply to females, and others which use the same terms cannot apply to females? Care to address this gaping hole in your hermeneutics? No, of course you don't, because there is no acceptable answer, and you know it. Why else would you have dodged the question the three or four other times I've asked it?

Edited by Annie, 06 August 2010 - 10:29 PM.


#140 heartstrings

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Posted 07 August 2010 - 04:59 PM

We must always differentiate between men and women. A eunuch who is born that way may or may not be that way because of his sin. He can be saved, regardless. As per 1 Timothy 2:15, a sterile woman cannot be saved, unless she TRULY repents, accepts the Lord, and is healed from her sterility. (Psalm 91:10)


What about the women in this verse, Thomas?

1 Corinthians 7:34 There is difference also between a wife and a virgin. The unmarried woman careth for the things of the Lord, that she may be holy both in body and in spirit: but she that is married careth for the things of the world, how she may please her husband. 35And this I speak for your own profit; not that I may cast a snare upon you, but for that which is comely, and that ye may attend upon the Lord without distraction.




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