What is a Ruckmanite

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Posted

What is a Ruckmanite?

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The definition some of the people on this board is anyone who:
1. Heard Peter Ruckman or met him
2. Touched/Read/Looked at one of his books
3. Said something pseudo related to Ruckman

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Posted

Some do go to such extremes but I think mostly one is considered a Ruckmanite if they follow the teachings (or most of the teachings) of Peter Ruckman and defend his divorces and cursing and such.

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Posted

The definition of the majority of people on this board is anyone who:
1. Heard Peter Ruckman or met him
2. Touched/Read/Looked at one of his books
3. Said something pseudo related to Ruckman

No.. Not a good definition... But people have obviously shown this is the definition by their actions.


I guess that would make me a ruckmanite then since I would fall under one, two and maybe three. :lol: But somehow I don't think I am one... :loll:

Generally, I think when people say someone is a "ruckmanite" positionally they are thinking of his hyper dispensationalism(thinks OT saint were saved by works etc.) His hyper KJVO stance( he thinks the greek and hebrew are lost and that the KVJ contains addition revelations not found anywhere else, bibles in other languages should be translated from the KJV rather than from the original languages etc.). That is one kind of "ruckmanite". Of course there is also the kind that almost literally hangs on his every word and won't disagree with anything he says or does no matter what. Commonly if you try to show why his positions are unbiblical to them they will just say that the "doc" as they usually call him has been studying scripture for so long, read the bible so many times etc., and so imply that he must be right regardless of how unbliblical it sounds. Not all ruckmanites are quite such extreme fans of his as that, but pretty much all of them are going to hold to most of his hyper KJV views and most of them are going to hold to his "OT saints were saved by works" beliefs as well.

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Posted

Some Bible critics (non-KJVO) will call anyone who is KJVO a Ruckmanite.

Some KJVOs say that anyone who agrees with Ruckman on anything (even if it's just one thing) is a Ruckmanite.

Actually, a Ruckmanite is someone who believes any or all of these: 1. salvation is obtained in different ways in different dispensations, 2. the KJV is directly inspired, 3. divorce and remarriage doesn't disqualify a man from being a pastor

That's what I've heard anyway. I'm sure that's not a complete list, but those are the major issues I've heard about Ruckman.

(if you don't know who Ruckman is, I found his website at KJV1611.org)
'

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Posted

I would say your post is pretty accurate with a note that number three "divorce and remarriage doesn't disqualify a man from being a pastor" will also apply to many liberals who are not ruckmanites in any way shape or form.

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Ruckmanism is a cult, with Peter Rucman as the God of their cult. Their followers worship him (though they do not claim this). They defend his heretical teaching of direct inspiration of the KJV and many of his other teachings which are contrary to Scripture.

Daniel Gladu likes this

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Posted

I personally have never called anyone a Ruckmanite, mainly because I think labels like this are neither helpful nor clarifying. If someone calls himself a Ruckmanite, I ask him what he means by that. There are probably a number of different answers to the question posted in this thread's title.

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Posted

I would say your post is pretty accurate with a note that number three "divorce and remarriage doesn't disqualify a man from being a pastor" will also apply to many liberals who are not ruckmanites in any way shape or form.


Oh, oops. My bad.

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Posted

Ruckmanism is a cult' date=' with Peter Rucman as the God of their cult. Their followers worship him (though they do not claim this). They defend his heretical teaching of direct inspiration of the KJV and many of his other teachings which are contrary to Scripture.[/quote']

I personally have only met one or two people who like Ruckman that would fall into your description. I know several people who like Ruckman's material and agree with him on doctrine who would never consider him to be their leader.

I guess we have many cults in the IFB world, because I've seen people who follow Dr. Hyles, Steve Anderson, David Cloud, and others the same way you say Ruckmanites follow Ruckman. (not that these men themselves are/were evil, I've just seen some weird followers)

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Posted

Followers of Ruckman do not come out and say they are in a cult. However, their behavior states otherwise. Here on this board, the followers of Ruckman spue their heresy and defense of Mr. Ruckman.

As to the other men you mention, Hyles was another cult leader. He demanded worship of those who went to Hyles Anderson. He is, as some say, the Baptist Pope.

Paul dealt with this in Corinthians when he said, that he follows Christ, not man. When a man gets to that point, he allows this to go to his head and begins to teach things that draw men to himself, rather than to God.

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Posted

You mean we are going here again?

Amen PastorJ btw...

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Posted

<> I only like him because his materials seem mostly lined up with the bible.. if he drifted away, I will drop him like a hat. I found out there were several people who used to listen to Ruckman because his teaching lined up with the bible but stopped when he got worst. That's how I would do to Cloud.

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Posted

If I may elaborate on my previous post...

I, for one, don't believe labels like "Ruckmanite," "BoJo," "Hylesite," "Gothardite," etc., have any place in our vocabulary. I know I don't like to be labeled just because I happen to agree with a certain teacher or organization on an issue or two. Yeah, I'm a graduate of BJU, but I'm not a "BoJo." I homeschool, but I'm not a "Gothardite" or a "Vision Forum-ite." I wear pants, but I'm not a "feminist" or a "liberal."

I think that labeling a person in the course of a discussion does a disservice not only to the person, but to the discussion as well. When a label has been assigned, the focus of the discussion inevitably veers off the real issue onto the label--why that person accepts or rejects it, and what others think of it.

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If I may elaborate on my previous post...

I, for one, don't believe labels like "Ruckmanite," "BoJo," "Hylesite," "Gothardite," etc., have any place in our vocabulary. I know I don't like to be labeled just because I happen to agree with a certain teacher or organization on an issue or two. Yeah, I'm a graduate of BJU, but I'm not a "BoJo." I homeschool, but I'm not a "Gothardite" or a "Vision Forum-ite." I wear pants, but I'm not a "feminist" or a "liberal."

I think that labeling a person in the course of a discussion does a disservice not only to the person, but to the discussion as well. When a label has been assigned, the focus of the discussion inevitably veers off the real issue onto the label--why that person accepts or rejects it, and what others think of it.


Wow, you are way outside the mainstream IFB thought here................please come back.................soon, we miss you! {yes, said in fun}

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Posted

Labelling is just easier than explaining.. I can go on and on explaining about my hearing loss, but I rather stick with the word "Severely hard of hearing".

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Posted

Labelling is just easier than explaining.. I can go on and on explaining about my hearing loss' date=' but I rather stick with the word "Severely hard of hearing".[/quote']

In the world of "black'n white" fundamentalist thought, there is no room for explaining.............only labeling. {okay, okay, okay, I got to stop this sarcasm or Seth is going to chastise me}

I praise God that not everything is so "cut and dried" in his creation and dealings with me!

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Posted



I wonder if you have a label for all that sarcasm posts you make? :Green

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Posted



Absolutely, and I'm certain others do as well! whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :wave:

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Nope, not chastise you trc123, just LABEL you(oh the horrors) in my little world of black and white fundamentalist thought. :hehe: :frog :nutty

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Posted

Labelling is just easier than explaining.. I can go on and on explaining about my hearing loss' date=' but I rather stick with the word "Severely hard of hearing".[/quote']
Yes. In your case, the label is not only clear, but also self-applied (which means you have accepted the label as an accurate description of yourself). The labels I was talking about are ones which are not self-assigned, and therefore are not usually accurate or accepted by the receiver of the label. Such labeling is not only unfair, but also nonproductive. Since I do not wish to be unfairly labeled, I endeavor not to do the same to others.

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People often do fit labels they don't want to except. The often want to claim to something that makes them seem less or more than what they are. I once heard a statement that went something like this:

"If you want to know what kind of man or christian a man is, don't ask him. Go ask his wife."

The truth of the matter is, people often see themselves as something they aren't; but when others - and especially if there are many in agreement - see them differently, you can usually count on those on the outside looking in. Obviously it also depends on who those people are on the outside and what their beliefs are. But, for the most part, the way others see us is more accurate than our own depiction of ourselves.

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Posted

Annie,

Labels help us understand what camps people are in from a Doctrinal position. However, in the case of Ruckmanites, this is a cult that has promoted serious false doctrine. God tells us to name those people. There is nothing wrong with labeling this kind.

Most IFB churches will fall into one of several camps. If I were moving into an area, I can find out a lot about a church by knowing what school their pastor went to.

These are typical things found at these churches
Hyles - Cultish, strong on dress standards, no depth in preaching (typically), holds to the KJV
Sword Crowd (PCC, Crown - Main schools) - KJV, Dress Standards, solid doctrinally
FBF Crowd (BJU, Maranatha, Northland) - KJV Preference - Anything goes on the Bible - Strong Music standards, no dress standards

I am at an FBF church right now that holds to the KJV as a preference. All teachers are asked to use the KJV. Their music standards are great. However, they have no dress standards at all, except on the platform.

Unfortunately, the only other IFB churches in the area are Hyles churches and I wouldn't attend either of them.

There are obviously exceptions to these descriptions. However, generally speaking labels are helpful.

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Posted

Wow, looks like my label would be alphabet soup

btw, I've known (personally) preachers from Liberty that you'd have thought were from BBC, from BBC you'd assume were PBI, PBI that appeared Arlington.

Many times because of there pastor's influence (or their Dad's) before they went to that school.

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FBF Crowd (BJU, Maranatha, Northland) - KJV Preference - Anything goes on the Bible - Strong Music standards, no dress standards


You have proved my point exactly. This is a careless categorization, far from accurate, and therefore not at all helpful in discussions. My pastor is a graduate of BJU, but he's not a member of the FBF. (I can't imagine that he ever would be, even if invited. He disagrees with them on a number of significant issues.) Our church is certainly NOT "anything goes on the Bible." I'm not sure what you mean by "dress standards"...but most of the ladies of the church wear dresses to worship services, and all of them wear modest apparel on the street. Our music is not CCM or Southern gospel, but there are no "rules" in place when it comes to music. So...not sure on the "strong music standards" part, either ("strong" compared to what, and according to whose definition?). People who use Southern gospel in their worship would not call our church's practice "strong," since they obviously think it's "stronger" to use S.G. You see, this label reflects your own personal experience and perspective...not mine or anybody else's. The word "standards" is used very little, if at all, at our church, so using that word to define our church really isn't accurate at all. So, what might happen now (if you want to defend your use of the label) is that we'll all start weighing in on who thinks it's a good label, and who doesn't...which will, as always, distract from the original topic of the discussion. Such is the problem with applying labels.

EDITED TO ADD: Our church isn't KJV-preferred, either.

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