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Do you want to see the Lord?


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#1 John81

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Posted 13 March 2012 - 08:17 PM

Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:

Hebrews 12:14

#2 John81

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 07:33 AM

Why is sanctification and holiness so little taught, preached or considered by so many professing Christians today?

#3 swathdiver

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:11 AM

Why is sanctification and holiness so little taught, preached or considered by so many professing Christians today?


Maybe because one has to include sin and repentance? Repentance is so little taught today, I gather that most new preachers are very unlearned on the topic and therefore do not teach it to their flocks.

#4 heartstrings

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:19 AM

Matthew 5:8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

God is holy, but He is not "holiness"; His main attribute is love because God is love, and love IS pure and holy. If we can just love, peace and the holiness will follow. Holiness is not simply living a clean life....the Pharisees did that but they were getting the cart before the horse....They didn't have Love in their hearts because they didn't know God.

#5 John81

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 11:24 AM

Matthew 5:8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

God is holy, but He is not "holiness"; His main attribute is love because God is love, and love IS pure and holy. If we can just love, peace and the holiness will follow. Holiness is not simply living a clean life....the Pharisees did that but they were getting the cart before the horse....They didn't have Love in their hearts because they didn't know God.

The Pharisees didn't live a holy life, for as you say, they were not holy in their heart.

God is thrice holy, as Scripture attests, "holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty".

God can only be love because He is first holy.

We are commanded to be holy for He is holy. This can only be done through sanctification which requires repentance and separation from sin. This must be done at the heart level.

#6 Old Regular

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:11 PM


Why is sanctification and holiness so little taught, preached or considered by so many professing Christians today?


Maybe because one has to include sin and repentance? Repentance is so little taught today, I gather that most new preachers are very unlearned on the topic and therefore do not teach it to their flocks.


The fear of the Lord is taught so little today as well.

Job 28:28 And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that [is] wisdom; and to depart from evil [is] understanding.


I whole heartedly agree that many new preachers are unlearned in important Baptist principles!

#7 heartstrings

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 12:33 PM


Matthew 5:8Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

God is holy, but He is not "holiness"; His main attribute is love because God is love, and love IS pure and holy. If we can just love, peace and the holiness will follow. Holiness is not simply living a clean life....the Pharisees did that but they were getting the cart before the horse....They didn't have Love in their hearts because they didn't know God.

The Pharisees didn't live a holy life, for as you say, they were not holy in their heart.

God is thrice holy, as Scripture attests, "holy, holy, holy is the Lord God Almighty".

God can only be love because He is first holy.

We are commanded to be holy for He is holy. This can only be done through sanctification which requires repentance and separation from sin. This must be done at the heart level.


I'm sorry but you have it backwards. God is holy because of what He is. Even God's JEALOUSLY comes from WHAT he is....
He is the first and the last, a consuming fire, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. God is holy because of who and what He is. Pure love, my friend, is the greatest, most powerful, most wonderful and the HOLIEST thing that exists in the Universe or outside the universe and He manifested and demonstrated what and who He is on Calvary. You know how I know?

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Edited by heartstrings, 14 March 2012 - 12:38 PM.


#8 John81

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:16 PM

I'm sorry but you have it backwards. God is holy because of what He is. Even God's JEALOUSLY comes from WHAT he is....
He is the first and the last, a consuming fire, He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. God is holy because of who and what He is. Pure love, my friend, is the greatest, most powerful, most wonderful and the HOLIEST thing that exists in the Universe or outside the universe and He manifested and demonstrated what and who He is on Calvary. You know how I know?

7Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. 8He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love. 9In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him. 10Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. 11Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. 12No man hath seen God at any time. If we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us. 13Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit. 14And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue here. If God were not holy that would mean there was some taint to Him and if that were true He could not be pure and true love.

Our love can't be anything close to pure unless we pursuing holiness ourselves. The lack of holiness in the lives of believers has much to do with why our love for one another is so weak, why there is so much jealousy, envy, strife, striving for position, etc., among us.

God is holy. God is love. God is truth. God is perfect. God is just. All the things God is are what makes God, God.

Now, why the diversion away from why we are not interested in sanctification? Why are we not pusuing holiness in our lives as Scripture commands?

#9 heartstrings

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 01:58 PM

Love is the noun, holy is just an adjective. No diversion. You have it backwards. God is love, not holiness. Holiness and sanctification come because of Love. Did you come to love Him because of His holiness? I hope not. The Bible says we love Him because He first loved us. If I let His love reign in my heart, then I won't lie, steal, cheat, covet, envy, hate, or anything else. .Love isn't a product of holiness, holiness is produced by love. Many religions try to practice holiness but their religion of good works is dead and lifeless.. Without love first, there can be no holiness.

#10 John81

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:16 PM

Love is the noun, holy is just an adjective. No diversion. You have it backwards. God is love, not holiness. Holiness and sanctification come because of Love. Did you come to love Him because of His holiness? I hope not. The Bible says we love Him because He first loved us. If I let His love reign in my heart, then I won't lie, steal, cheat, covet, envy, hate, or anything else. .Love isn't a product of holiness, holiness is produced by love. Many religions try to practice holiness but their religion of good works is dead and lifeless.. Without love first, there can be no holiness.

I don't see we are really saying anything all that different.

So, why is it that sanctification and the pursuit of holiness, as commanded in Scripture, is not preached, taught or much practiced today?

#11 Doc Flay

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:08 AM

We are created in the image of God, and by the natural body perhaps we seek holiness in a way, but can't find it without Christ; even the unsaved have moral standards, but these standards are not enough to save, because without the resurrection of Christ there is no justification for anyone; so Christ is the way to holiness without which no man can see God.

#12 Doc Flay

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:48 AM

Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. 2Cor. 7:1 K.J.V.

#13 Oldtimer

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 03:57 AM

Why is sanctification and holiness so little taught, preached or considered by so many professing Christians today?


Perhaps it's because too many "professing" Christians aren't bearing good fruit for others to see. Perhaps it's because too many are "Sunday" Christians, some including church leaders, Wonder how many will leave Resurrection Sunday services this morning and spend the afternoon enjoying things of the world that they refuse to give up?

#14 irishman

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Posted 08 April 2012 - 05:33 AM

I agree with heartstrings, God is first love, and out of that pure unadulterated love springs Holiness, although it really doesn't matter, you can't have one without the other, not really. Thank the Lord for this!

Edited by irishman, 08 April 2012 - 05:36 AM.


#15 Doc Flay

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 03:10 AM

The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the holy is understanding. For by me thy days shall be multiplied, and the years of thy life shall be increased. Pro.10,11




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