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Way Of Life - The Pre-Tribulation Rapture

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So what exactly was the last post in this thread actually worth reading?
Was it John, invicta, or maybe Linda?

Can I suggest that people lay off the mud slinging and maybe address the issue like adults.

Or do we not care that the Lord is being dishonoured more by the strife than by genuine discussion of opposing ideas.

There are certainly some who by their actions are not showing much evidence of salvation, and it has nothing to do with which side they are on doctrinally.

If you can't play nice, then get out of the sandbox and let the rest of play nicely together.

And if you think I am talking to you - note that I have not named anyone - if you are offended by this post, maybe you should examine your own posts first to see how much you will have to explain to the Lord. I accuse no-one by this - I don't have to - your own words already do.

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The rise of the Devil: Hill Vaticanus became the temple mound for Lucifer in 520 BC. The building of the temple was erected and stood millennium. There is a unique symbol associated with the workings of Lucifer. His watermark as it were is the hexagram. The hexagram is a super powerful tool in the occult and satan worshipers to conjure up demons.

The Jews also used a symbol – the Menorah. It has always stood for Judaism. Solomon built the Temple for the Jews; descendants of Jacob whose name was changed to Israel. Solomon allowed himself to be taken into lust of the flesh and allow his wives to keep their idols and ended up himself faling prey to Moloch and Baal. Thus the deterioration of Israel and Judaism. They changed laws to suit themselves. Read Exe 8.

From this great fall came the rise of Lucifer. Folks drifted away and the Prophets were sent to warn the people and they killed and imprisoned them or disregarded and made them outcast.

Now; I'll back up a bit to the time of Abraham and other religions like Zorasterism under the King of Bela. Abraham defeated the kings but their religions were re-birth in Persia. Here in 1300 BC you see the hexagram. The pagans use the hexagram throughout history.

There is a 400 year period with no prophets, but false doctrines and atrocities within Judaism. Jesus speakes of these things during His ministry.

We see the birth of Christianity and their consuming with fervor through the power of the Holy Ghost. I do not see the Menorah replaced or it idolized but the Christian's now had influence in the Temple at Jerusalem. The Christians themselves mostly were Jews until 70 AD. The gospel had long been taken to other places and the Gentiles had long been in the Kingdom of God. The Jewish Christians fled Jerusalem and were taken in in other cities by the churches and their own families. The gospel is carried throughout the world.

John tells of Antichrist departing from the early churches and you can follow them to Alexandria Egypt. Then you can follow their migration to Rome and the formation of the Catholics. The Catholics symbol is the HEXAGRAM. It is throughout their buildings and religious material and all they have all over the globe.

Interestingly we find the HEXAGRAM in all religions but Christianity and Judaism by the orthodox Jews who have remained true to their religion.

You see Buddaism displaying the HEXAGRAM on everything they have. Islam; the HEXAGRAM is displayed on everyting they have. Hinduism; the HEXAGRAM is displayed on everything they have.

You see a group of Gentiles that have adopted Judaism without being converted to Judaism legitmately. Nor did they adopt the Menorah or follow Judaism. They adopted the HEXAGRAM and remained true to Baal. They have the hexagram on everything they have all over the world. Stalin was one of them as also was Lenin --- see Russian buildings and you'll find the hexagram everywhere.

The numerical value of the hexagram is 666 and it is displayed all over the world in the knight organizations and Mason Lodges and their sects. The Knights Templar of the Catholics is a lodge with the Masonic order.

Can you figure this out? What does the hexagram stand for? Yes; this stuff fits in today and hopefully makes things a litter more clear to see.

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I have no jeopardy clock; nor did I use your toy or played in your sandbox. REV 11 says the WOE.. rapture comes out of tribulation @vs. 15. I've given admonition to you and your heretical theory's and have rejected you as one who has perverted the gospel and therefore will have no dialogue with you as commanded by scripture. Throughout the epistles and REV they clearly say that the church comes out of tribulation as does Jesus out of His mouth.

You fit well with the Ruckamanians and multiple paths of salvation and multiple raptures and placing yourself away from Jesus. You can mock and wag your head and tongue all you want............... there is not one scripture in the entire Bible for a limited 7 yr trib period. That teaching comes out of Egypt from the seminary there. Ireneaus was the only one suggesting such and his teaching was rejected. The USA fell for this false teaching from the false prophet and the results of what this taking place in the news is a testimony of what is taking place in this country. The beast has risen out of the sea. The false prophet has performed well (you are indoctrinated well in his gospel), the man of sin has come forth. And you message of don't worry, be happy Christians will not suffer the tribulation and the man of sin will be the light to the Jews - that is a perverted gospel and it is the one you preach.


Once again, an explanation out of left field that doesn't address the verses head on.

Now it's funny that you call yourself a Baptist, but confess that "too much emphasis is placed on denominations". It is that denominationalism that separates Baptist from nut jobs
And here's one that seriously makes me question whether or not you are not an infiltrater trying to corrupt Baptist teachings:

"All Christians regardless of denomination are in the family of God." YOUR WEBSITE So this means that the Pentacostal that believes you must be baptized and speak in tongues to be saved is a Christian. This means, since it is "regardless of denomination" that the Pentacostal that doesn't believe in the trinity is saved. So this means that the charismatics that teach a man can lose his salvation are Christians. You consistently confuse persecution with the great tribulation. The first is an experience that a believer suffers as a result of his belief (John 16:33, 2 Tim 3:12), the latter is judgment because of UNBELIEF (2 Thess 2:10).
You call me Catholic, and yet you make an ecumenical statement like people are Christians "regardless of denomination", that sounds more Catholic to me than any pre--tribber (and again, Catholics don't believe in a pre-trib rapture).

And at first you blamed the rapture doctrine on Ribera in the 1500s ,and claim it was never taught until Ribera invented futurism, but now you say it was from Iraneus. Can't seem to keep your stories straight.

And here's the real kicker. In the 25 years that I have studied other cults and occult and anti-Christian groups, I have learned to recognize the "buzz words" of cult members. One of them that is immediately recognizable is the Freemason term "initiated into the craft". Others who may not have studied these groups don't readily see it, and that's why they are "buzz words" it helps others in your "craft" recognize you and your work.
In your book, Machinery Alignment, in the "author" description, first thing you said is "My initiation and introduction into the craft" (1) Pure and unadulterated language of the Illuminati and Freemasons and other pagan groups (2) (3) (4) (just a few examples).
One of the things that Jesuit groups like Opus Dei are trained for is to learn the language of other churches and attempt to influence members against their traditionally held beliefs. I have never seen you say you are a Baptist, only that you go to a Baptist church, and you chose a forum that you had to have known were full of people who believe in a pre-tribulation rapture and have been the first to respond against anyone who teaches it.

Therefore you and the motivation you came here with are.....

http://ken-welch.com...hics/Busted.gif Edited by DrJamesA

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There's stupid and then there's James. A Christian is a Christian. Being a Baptist does not make one a Christian. Yes, there are saved people in other churces (other churches doesn't mean ALL).

I'm a master craftsman and Millwright by trade before becoming an engineer. My initation into the craft of being a Millwright was through a four year government accredited program that certified me and documented me with the government. If you are a Machinist; your craft is Machinist. IF you are an Electrician that is your craft.

If one is crafty like yourself then your craft is lying. On this website you have blasphemed. I recognize who you are and what you are. Can't help it if it makes you mad.

Edited by SamuelP

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I was raised in a Baptist (Missionary) church and was lost at the time. I was saved in a Baptist church (Jan 5, 1972 @~8:30PM and it was independent). I was baptized in Jan in the river by a Baptist preacher @28F --- we broke the ice to go in. I've remained in Baptists churches for membership since.

I have seen Catholics saved and know saved former mormons as well. I have not known any that remained in those denominations. I used to talk with a Church of God member hours on end for years. I think he was saved. I have a friend that is Methodist, I think he is saved.

You may have noticed I'm not afraid to confront someone be it a Priest or Cardinal or evolutionist or Church of Christ or Pentecostal or someone lost. I'm not afraid to warn the sheep and lambs either.

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There's stupid and then there's James. A Christian is a Christian. Being a Baptist does not make one a Christian. Yes, there are saved people in other churces (other churches doesn't mean ALL).

I'm a master craftsman and Millwright by trade before becoming an engineer. My imitation into the craft of being a Millwright was through a four year government accredited program that certified me and documented me with the government. If you are a Machinist; your craft is Machinist. IF you are an Electrician that is your craft.

If one is crafty like yourself then your craft is lying.

As a Bible believing Christian, I would NEVER use the language of the occult ("craft") to describe my job, and I certainly wouldn't go beyond that and state that I was "INITIATED" into the craft. Instead of saying "I was trained as..." or "I was certified in..." you used the exact same language that occultists use to describe their jobs.
A master craftsman begins as an apprentice. What's the first degree of a Freemason? ENTERED APPRENTICE. A master craftsmen then becomes a "journeyman". What is the next step of a Freemason? TRAVELING FROM EAST TO WEST. And what is the 3rd degree of a Freemason? MASTER MASON and all of his "brothers" are "fellow CRAFTSmen".
It is one thing to be trained in a job and having to go through a secular training program doesn't necessarily imply an endorsement of their beliefs. But in this case YOU USED THEIR OCCULT LANGUAGE TO DESCRIBE YOUR JOB and seem proud of it.

And true, that one does not have to be a Baptist to be a born again Christian, but that doesn't mean that you endorse other denominations which is exactly what your statements have the effect of doing. Those that have studied church history and the backgrounds of all the denominations know exactly what's wrong with the other churches and why they should not be endorsed, but your statements make no clear distinction about separation and imply an ecumenical version of Christianity.

I know a wolf when I see one. And like I said before, I am not going to sit back and let someone who claims to be a Baptist come in a BAPTIST forum and attempt to shake the beliefs of others in here with that heretical allegorical non-sense. Edited by DrJamesA

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IF you weren't a blasphemer and an accuser of the Brethren, me, Invicta, Covenanter, etc..., you'd be laughable.

Craft of the NUT must make peanut butter. If one goes through an apprenticeship program to become a Pipefitter he is a Mason --- NUT. All trade skills have apprenticeship program to produce craftsmen for industry for pipefitters, plumbers, carpenters, millwrights, electricans............. Do they have to wear a Masonic emblem around their neck?

Accuser of the Brethren. You are crafty but at the level of a 12 year old child. You are a blight on Christianity.

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The Ecumenical churches displaying the Ecumenical flag and symbols, etc......... mostly teach the same thing as the Jack Van Impe's, Billy Graham's, Jimmy Swaggart, John Hagee, Ken Copeland ------ they have common denominator ----- pre-trib rapture. Some take it into another gospel by saying that satan will enlighten the Jews when the church is gone. Traditional Baptist with a history of being Baptist do not conform to the Ecumenical teaching.

The Jews in Israel that practice Judaism and use the Menorah as their symbol constantly reject and have public protest against the Zionist and the hexagram flag. These real Jews stand for their faith and against the corruption of the Zionist Ashkenazi Jews who call themselves Jews and do not practice Judaism and have the hexagram flag of Lucifer to represent them............

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IF you weren't a blasphemer and an accuser of the Brethren, me, Invicta, Covenanter, etc..., you'd be laughable.

Craft of the NUT must make peanut butter. If one goes through an apprenticeship program to become a Pipefitter he is a Mason --- NUT. All trade skills have apprenticeship program to produce craftsmen for industry for pipefitters, plumbers, carpenters, millwrights, electricans............. Do they have to wear a Masonic emblem around their neck?

Accuser of the Brethren. You are crafty but at the level of a 12 year old child. You are a blight on Christianity.


As a Bible believing Christian, I would NEVER use the language of the occult ("craft") to describe my job, and I certainly wouldn't go beyond that and state that I was "INITIATED" into the craft. Instead of saying "I was trained as..." or "I was certified in..." you used the exact same language that occultists use to describe their jobs.
A master craftsman begins as an apprentice. What's the first degree of a Freemason? ENTERED APPRENTICE. A master craftsmen then becomes a "journeyman". What is the next step of a Freemason? TRAVELING FROM EAST TO WEST. And what is the 3rd degree of a Freemason? MASTER MASON and all of his "brothers" are "fellow CRAFTSmen".
It is one thing to be trained in a job and having to go through a secular training program doesn't necessarily imply an endorsement of their beliefs. But in this case YOU USED THEIR OCCULT LANGUAGE TO DESCRIBE YOUR JOB and seem proud of it
**********,
Once again, as usual, failing to grasp what is written and what is context. I clearly stated that being trained in such a program does not necessarily "imply and endorsement of their beliefs", but you don't have to use their occult language in order to describe the job. YOU DID
You simply don't like when someone does not take your word for it that what you say is the truth no matter what. My approach is to make people examine the Bible first, and let the Bible interpret itself, as well as let the Bible interpret history. Your approach is to pick and choose people that agree with you, and if you can't explain what a particular passage means, go find someone in a history book that agrees with you and quote them instead of the Bible, and most of the time, quote them on a subject that has nothing to do the particular text being discussed, and several other people have complained to you about that. I just happen to be a very aggressive debater that doesn't put up with nonsense, and if that offends you, perhaps you came to the wrong house to try and peddle your ramblings.

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The Ecumenical churches displaying the Ecumenical flag and symbols, etc......... mostly teach the same thing as the Jack Van Impe's, Billy Graham's, Jimmy Swaggart, John Hagee, Ken Copeland ------ they have common denominator ----- pre-trib rapture. Some take it into another gospel by saying that satan will enlighten the Jews when the church is gone. Traditional Baptist with a history of being Baptist do not conform to the Ecumenical teaching.

The Jews in Israel that practice Judaism and use the Menorah as their symbol constantly reject and have public protest against the Zionist and the hexagram flag. These real Jews stand for their faith and against the corruption of the Zionist Ashkenazi Jews who call themselves Jews and do not practice Judaism and have the hexagram flag of Lucifer to represent them............


Murder of 6 million Jews-Hiter; Murder of million of it's own citizens, Joseph Stalin; Murder of millions of innocent babies, our own government; Murder of 50 million Christians from AD 300-1500, Roman Catholic Church, murder and rape of their own woman, Islam: COMMON DENOMINATOR=None of them believe in the pre-tribulation rapture.

Once again, you went out into left field with something that had nothing to do with the subject. Rothschild, the Bilderbergers, Illuminati,are real and as evil as evil gets, but the history of the hexagram and Rothschilds is a subject that is totally out of context in any of the last 2 pages of debates. I typically don't agree with Christians taking medication but in this case I may have to make an exception. Edited by DrJamesA
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Wallow in your own vomit. Accuser of the Brethren. Stand with Copeland, Graham, Swaggart, Hagee, Van Impe then and whine to them --- I have no use to discuss anything with you as it is wrong - I shake the dust off my feet and leave you to wallow in your own crafted teaching.

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Sigh. I so often wonder at the maturity of some...

Thread locked due to not only constant hijacking but absolute immature non-biblical attitude. Grow up. :threadlockedbc5:

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