Why Not Stick With The Original Melody? Huh?

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Posted

So true!!

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These rock concerts are all about self-gratification and "feeling" God and feeling spiritual.  It has no basis in Scripture other than to turn away from it, yet these goats flock to it because they were never scripturally born-again, still living for themselves and not Christ.

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Posted

I have no problem with it. Not my style of music, but hymns are not scripture. They are open to  interpretation. One of my favorite songs is "At the Cross", by the Sensational Nightingales, which is not the traditional "At the Cross", but is a conflation of two different hymns and set to a different beat.

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Posted

I have no problem with it. Not my style of music, but hymns are not scripture. They are open to  interpretation. One of my favorite songs is "At the Cross", by the Sensational Nightingales, which is not the traditional "At the Cross", but is a conflation of two different hymns and set to a different beat.

 

You should, it is contrary to God's Word.

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Posted (edited)

Unfortunately, you have me at a disadvantage. Because anything I say on this issue will be seen as promoting contemporary music, I'm not really able to say much about my views on this. So I'll just say I disagree, but respect your right to your opinion and leave it at that.

 

All I'll say about it is that I think it's funny that that many people get so upset about it. It's about the most un-rock and roll-like music I think I've ever heard. The way I've heard the hymn played traditonally (and, incidentally, it's one of my favorite hymns, which may be why I don't like this version) is in a 4/4 march-like time, which I would think would be much worse.

Edited by Auburn88
Left the Bldg likes this

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Posted

It's full on rock-n-roll, which of course takes many shapes.  This might be classified as soft-rock.  Whatever it's called, it's surely evil and not of God.  There are biblical principles and commands that this group, song and the entire CCM movement violate.  They are not in accord with scripture and therefore Christians are told to separate from them.

1John2:15-17 likes this

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Posted

What's with the goofy t-shirts under the sport coats, anyway....

 

I'm amazed at how many, many Baptists listen to Casting Crowns.    Its worldly music set to Christian words.

 

I will agree it is difficult to put a black and white definition to "good music" and "bad music"......but if a person thinks the only bad part about rock music is the words, then its a discussion that you're not really going to be able to have, anyway. 

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Posted

It's not difficult once you train yourself what to listen for and if you practice separation.  Most songs can be ignored on the doctrine of separation alone.  Learning the Godly structure of music from the Bible will help you with the 1% that sneak through and more importantly, help you choose good, Christ-honoring music to listen to, even secular.

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Posted

Umm...I wouldn't call this rock 'n roll. It's much closer to contemporary country music. Very bland IMO. Doesn't do much for my flesh or spirit. 

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Umm...I wouldn't call this rock 'n roll. It's much closer to contemporary country music. Very bland IMO. Doesn't do much for my flesh or spirit. 

 

See post #7.

1John2:15-17 likes this

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Umm...I wouldn't call this rock 'n roll. It's much closer to contemporary country music. Very bland IMO. Doesn't do much for my flesh or spirit. 

I don't know what I'd call it but no doubt much of what they call country music today is much more rockin than that song. A few years ago I heard this song sang by a pastor and a pastors wife. They didn't use this music but it sounded nice when they sang it.

 

We were given a Southern Gospel DVD and that form of music has sure changed alot since I was younger! Many of the songs on that DVD were much more instrumentally heavy than in the above video.

 

While I wouldn't want to go to that concert above, there are some of our brothers/sisters in Christ who do.

 

It also shouldn't surprise us if there are some at those concerts who might not be saved or who might act or dress differently than others; we see the same thing in many churches.

 

Every believer isn't at the same point of maturity in Christ as everyone else. Had there been such music as this when I was first saved I might have listened to it. I've seen many believers over the years who listened to things at an earlier point in their walk with the Lord that they didn't later. I've seen many who once read MVs but at some point over the years they turned to the KJB. Some used to watch a lot of TV, some now only watch a little and some don't watch any today.

 

Many years ago I heard the song "Thy Word" as someone in a program at a park sang. A little bit of the song stuck in my head and I would sing it to myself sometimes. It wasn't until a long while later that I found out those few lyrics I remembered had come from an Amy Grant song. That kind of makes me wonder how many other songs I've heard over the years may have similar origins but one wouldn't know from hearing them sang acapela or to a piano.

 

Myself, I like several old hymns, I like some Bluegrass Gospel, some old-time Southern Gospel, some of the old-time country style Gospel, Quartets, and music along those lines. At church I love it when my favorite piano player sits at the piano and starts playing one of my favorite hymns!

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Posted

It's full on rock-n-roll, which of course takes many shapes.  This might be classified as soft-rock.  Whatever it's called, it's surely evil and not of God.  There are biblical principles and commands that this group, song and the entire CCM movement violate.  They are not in accord with scripture and therefore Christians are told to separate from them.

This is probably how original ancient music in Biblical times sounded like.  Doesn't sound like CCM or our hymns of our day.  As beautiful as it is...let's see if you would listen to this every day.  http://bobb-cypressgrovebluescom.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-did-songs-of-bible-originally.html

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Posted

I don't know what I'd call it but no doubt much of what they call country music today is much more rockin than that song. A few years ago I heard this song sang by a pastor and a pastors wife. They didn't use this music but it sounded nice when they sang it.

 

We were given a Southern Gospel DVD and that form of music has sure changed alot since I was younger! Many of the songs on that DVD were much more instrumentally heavy than in the above video.

 

While I wouldn't want to go to that concert above, there are some of our brothers/sisters in Christ who do.

 

It also shouldn't surprise us if there are some at those concerts who might not be saved or who might act or dress differently than others; we see the same thing in many churches.

 

Every believer isn't at the same point of maturity in Christ as everyone else. Had there been such music as this when I was first saved I might have listened to it. I've seen many believers over the years who listened to things at an earlier point in their walk with the Lord that they didn't later. I've seen many who once read MVs but at some point over the years they turned to the KJB. Some used to watch a lot of TV, some now only watch a little and some don't watch any today.

 

Many years ago I heard the song "Thy Word" as someone in a program at a park sang. A little bit of the song stuck in my head and I would sing it to myself sometimes. It wasn't until a long while later that I found out those few lyrics I remembered had come from an Amy Grant song. That kind of makes me wonder how many other songs I've heard over the years may have similar origins but one wouldn't know from hearing them sang acapela or to a piano.

 

Myself, I like several old hymns, I like some Bluegrass Gospel, some old-time Southern Gospel, some of the old-time country style Gospel, Quartets, and music along those lines. At church I love it when my favorite piano player sits at the piano and starts playing one of my favorite hymns!

Oh my!  A piano?  I don't recall a piano as one of the instruments mentioned in the Bible.  Whatever shall we do as Christians who enjoy the piano???  Sorry...I'm being a little sarcastic. Some people are so black and white about issues that aren't even about a person's salvation which I think drive the unsaved away.  So I like whoever responds to "Surrendered".  That person needs to lighten up.  

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Posted

They seemed to have ironed out any tune in  the song.  Most people on recordings seem to do that with traditional hymns.

 

At least one of the audience seemed to be almost in a trance. 

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Posted (edited)

Music can be a powerful force.  I know a man that played in a rock band before he got saved.  He said that when the night wore on, and they were getting tired, they could cause a fight by stepping up the tempo, then they got to leave early!  There is a certain beat to rock music that is both sensual and confusing to the senses, and a "good" musician can tell the difference.  I forget what it's called, but they have a name for that type of beat. (seems like it was "discordance" or something like that.)  This was stright from the horses mouth so to speak. 

Edited by irishman

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Posted

I believe that too.

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This is probably how original ancient music in Biblical times sounded like.  Doesn't sound like CCM or our hymns of our day.  As beautiful as it is...let's see if you would listen to this every day.  http://bobb-cypressgrovebluescom.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-did-songs-of-bible-originally.html

I like the Psalm 23 one....nice. But I wouldn't listen to any song all day. Any song gets old after awhile.

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Posted

The major issue at hand here, I think, is the obvious desire to make the hymn sound like the music of the world-it is a deliberate design to erase godly separation to appeal to a larger crowd.

 

A lot of people will say, "Well, what does it matter, as long as it brings people to the Lord?" Well, it does matter for a couple reasons:

   1: because if you seek to use worldly methods to bring people to Christ, the best yu get is worldly Christians

   2: because music was never intended to be about bringing people to Christ-it is by preaching that people are converted, not scintillating the emotions to bring about an emotional response. most who respond in such a way will be like the seed that was cast on rocky soil, which grew quickly, but had no root and died.

 

CCM began in the Jesus People movement, where unsaved hippies were brought together and encouraged to perform their music for services, the exact same music they performed in secular venues, with a few word changes to sound Christian. and that's about exactly what it still is.

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Posted

The major issue at hand here, I think, is the obvious desire to make the hymn sound like the music of the world-it is a deliberate design to erase godly separation to appeal to a larger crowd.

 

A lot of people will say, "Well, what does it matter, as long as it brings people to the Lord?" Well, it does matter for a couple reasons:

   1: because if you seek to use worldly methods to bring people to Christ, the best yu get is worldly Christians

   2: because music was never intended to be about bringing people to Christ-it is by preaching that people are converted, not scintillating the emotions to bring about an emotional response. most who respond in such a way will be like the seed that was cast on rocky soil, which grew quickly, but had no root and died.

 

CCM began in the Jesus People movement, where unsaved hippies were brought together and encouraged to perform their music for services, the exact same music they performed in secular venues, with a few word changes to sound Christian. and that's about exactly what it still is.

Our Christian Christmas holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus started as a pagan holiday.  Should we now not celebrate Christmas?  "All things work together for good for those who love the Lord."  Romans 8:28

Below is a little bit of history of how cultures change but God is still in control even in CCM.  We need to get with the current century.

In the early years of Christianity, Easter was the main holiday; the birth of Jesus was not celebrated. In the fourth century, church officials decided to institute the birth of Jesus as a holiday. Unfortunately, the Bible does not mention date for his birth (a fact Puritans later pointed out in order to deny the legitimacy of the celebration). Although some evidence suggests that his birth may have occurred in the spring (why would shepherds be herding in the middle of winter?), Pope Julius I chose December 25. It is commonly believed that the church chose this date in an effort to adopt and absorb the traditions of the pagan Saturnalia festival. 

By holding Christmas at the same time as traditional winter solstice festivals, church leaders increased the chances that Christmas would be popularly embraced, but gave up the ability to dictate how it was celebrated. By the Middle Ages, Christianity had, for the most part, replaced pagan religion. 

An Outlaw Christmas

In the early 17th century, a wave of religious reform changed the way Christmas was celebrated in Europe. When Oliver Cromwell and his Puritan forces took over England in 1645, they vowed to rid England of decadence and, as part of their effort, cancelled Christmas. By popular demand, Charles II was restored to the throne and, with him, came the return of the popular holiday.

The pilgrims, English separatists that came to America in 1620, were even more orthodox in their Puritan beliefs than Cromwell. As a result, Christmas was not a holiday in early America. From 1659 to 1681, the celebration of Christmas was actually outlawed in Boston. Anyone exhibiting the Christmas spirit was fined five shillings. By contrast, in the Jamestown settlement, Captain John Smith reported that Christmas was enjoyed by all and passed without incident.

After the American Revolution, English customs fell out of favor, including Christmas. In fact, Christmas wasn't declared a federal holiday until June 26, 1870.

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Posted

Separation from the world doesn't mean to refrain from earthly activity.  It means to raise our consciousness to oneness with God unlike the world.  So why can't God use CCM to reach someone?  

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Separation from the world doesn't mean to refrain from earthly activity.  It means to raise our consciousness to oneness with God unlike the world.  So why can't God use CCM to reach someone?  

Because God calls us out of the world's philosophy when we are saved.  "Be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind..."   Following the world's way of entertainment (which is largely what CCM does) is conforming to them.  Using the world's music is not transforming by renewing our minds - it is staying in the mire from which we were rescued by adding a few gospel words to it.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your definition.  We are not to raise our consciousness to oneness with God. That is actually new age speak...God has called us to be conformed to the image of His son.  We cannot do that when we emulate the sinful world, and the sinful practices from which we are saved.  

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Our Christian Christmas holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus started as a pagan holiday.  Should we now not celebrate Christmas?  

 

"All things work together for good for those who love the Lord."  Romans 8:28

 

This is an apples-to-oranges, and thus invalid, comparison. What you're talking about is the implemenation of a Christian celebration in place of the celebration of an opposing faith system (paganism). The intent was to supplant the pagan holiday, not emulate it. We can argue all day about it going awry and becoming a worship of Santa Claus, but that's not really the point. CCM, on the other hand, is an attempt to accomodate secular tastes and sensitivities and pass it off as Christian. Two completely different scenarios.

 

Additionally, your application of Romans 8:28 is off the mark. Rom 8:28, firstly, only applies to the believer as indicated by the second two thirds of the verse, "to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." This verse in no way applies to the unsaved. Additionally, verses 29-30 clarify that He does so in order that those believers will be conformed to the image of Christ, and not the world (see also Rom 12:1-2). God does not use Christian behavior that is contrary to His Word; rather, he reproves and corrects it (Heb 12:5-6).

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This is an apples-to-oranges, and thus invalid, comparison. What you're talking about is the implemenation of a Christian celebration in place of the celebration of an opposing faith system (paganism). The intent was to supplant the pagan holiday, not emulate it. We can argue all day about it going awry and becoming a worship of Santa Claus, but that's not really the point. CCM, on the other hand, is an attempt to accomodate secular tastes and sensitivities and pass it off as Christian. Two completely different scenarios.

 

Additionally, your application of Romans 8:28 is off the mark. Rom 8:28, firstly, only applies to the believer as indicated by the second two thirds of the verse, "to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." This verse in no way applies to the unsaved. Additionally, verses 29-30 clarify that He does so in order that those believers will be conformed to the image of Christ, and not the world (see also Rom 12:1-2). God does not use Christian behavior that is contrary to His Word; rather, he reproves and corrects it (Heb 12:5-6).

How is it not in comparison?  Taking a pagan holiday and making it Christian.  Taking secular music and making it Christian.  Our hymns don't sound like the music of Biblical times.  It sounds like music from that century which probably sounded similar to secular music of that time.  Hear for yourself.  http://bobb-cypressgrovebluescom.blogspot.com/2009/08/what-did-songs-of-bible-originally.html Take today's English language.  No one says "thee", "thou" and "thy" anymore.  Should I speak that way in every day conversation as to make myself look different to the world?  What is new age about a conscience?  God gave us a conscience and common sense.  When I referred to "all things work together to those that love the Lord" I was implying that if He can take what was originally a pagan holiday such as Christmas and turn it into a Christian holiday, why can't He then take music CCM and do the same?  He also created music.  Music is not what is bad..it's how we use it to glorify God just like anything else in life.  A lot of these conversations regarding CCM sound legalistic to me.  What we can and can't do.  Don't listen to this...don't watch this...don't wear pants, etc.  1 Cor 6:12 "All things are permissible unless God says "no" but not all things are beneficial".  If your convictions are not to listen to CCM then don't if it stirs up your old nature.  Those are not my convictions but if we were friends and were driving in my car I would not play it on the radio because of a tender conscience and cause my brother to fall into something he thinks is wrong.  My convictions come from the Holy Spirit not from this forum.  On another note, thank you for your reply.  I am very straight forward in the way I speak and if I sounded harsh, I apologize in advance.

John81 likes this

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Because God calls us out of the world's philosophy when we are saved.  "Be not conformed to this world, but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind..."   Following the world's way of entertainment (which is largely what CCM does) is conforming to them.  Using the world's music is not transforming by renewing our minds - it is staying in the mire from which we were rescued by adding a few gospel words to it.

 

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with your definition.  We are not to raise our consciousness to oneness with God. That is actually new age speak...God has called us to be conformed to the image of His son.  We cannot do that when we emulate the sinful world, and the sinful practices from which we are saved.  

What are sinful practices?  Going to a football game?  The world does that.  Engaging in celebrations?  The world does that. I could go on but my point is when we are chosen, called out or "not to be conformed to this world" means we are not to think about God with the philosophies of the unsaved world views.  The renewing of our minds comes from the Holy Spirit which the unsaved world does not have in them.  When we got saved we changed our mind about sin.  The sin we changed our mind about is that fact that we needed a savior which the world doesn't understand because they do not recognize their sin or the necessity of needing to be saved.  It's not about dos and don'ts.  That was the old law which was for the Jews and didn't work so Christ had to fulfill the law because we couldn't.  With that said, I believe my mind is renewed.  Am I perfect?  Of course not!  Let's agree to disagree that we have a different perspective on what it means to be separate from the world.  I don't want to live like the Amish.  

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