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Are You A Backsliding Christian And Are You Saved?


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#1 The Glory Land

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 06:07 AM

Are you one of those that believe, that a Christian can loose their salvation for backsliding?

 

 

 

Jeremiah 2:19   Thine own wickedness shall correct thee, and thy backslidings shall reprove thee: know therefore and see that it is an evil thing and bitter, that thou hast forsaken the LORD thy God, and that my fear is not in thee, saith the Lord GOD of hosts.

 

 

 Jeremiah 3:6   The LORD said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? she is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.

 

 

 Jeremiah 3:8   And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

 

 

 Jeremiah 3:11   And the LORD said unto me, The backsliding Israel hath justified herself more than treacherous Judah.

 

 

 Jeremiah 3:12   Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; and I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I am merciful, saith the LORD, and I will not keep anger for ever.

 

 

 Jeremiah 3:14   Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:

 

 

 Jeremiah 3:22   Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the LORD our God.

 

 

 Jeremiah 5:6   Wherefore a lion out of the forest shall slay them, and a wolf of the evenings shall spoil them, a leopard shall watch over their cities: every one that goeth out thence shall be torn in pieces: because their transgressions are many, and their backslidings are increased.

 

 

 Jeremiah 8:5   Why then is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.

 

 

 Jeremiah 14:7   O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou it for thy name's sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee.

 

 

 Jeremiah 31:22   How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.

 

 

 Jeremiah 49:4   Wherefore gloriest thou in the valleys, thy flowing valley, O backsliding daughter? that trusted in her treasures, saying, Who shall come unto me?

 

 

 Hosea 4:16   For Israel slideth back as a backsliding heifer: now the LORD will feed them as a lamb in a large place.

 

 

 Hosea 11:7   And my people are bent to backsliding from me: though they called them to the most High, none at all would exalt him.

 

 

 Hosea 14:4   I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him. 

 

 

 

 

:godisgood:



#2 John81

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 08:23 AM

When one is saved, biblically born again in Christ, they HAVE ETERNAL life. The well known John 3:16 makes this clear, as do many other verses of Scripture.

 

True backsliding can only be done by one who is saved. The one who is a false Christian who "backslides" isn't actually backsliding, but simply allowing their lost condition to be openly seen.

 

The Lord works on the heart of actual backsliders to draw them back to Him. Typically, backsliders don't remain in such a state for an extended period of time. Most eventually heed the call of the Spirit to restoration or surrender under the chastening of the Lord.

 

The Word tells us there comes a point where if a backslider so hardens their heart against the Lords attempts to correct them, the Lord will end their life.

 

While there is no set time given in Scripture for such matters, the above as well as what we read elsewhere in Scripture would seem to indicate those who claim to be saved but backslidden for the past 10, 20 or more years were most likely never saved.

 

Again, while there is no set time on this, from personal experience I've never known a saved person to backslide for more than a year or two. Most I've known only walk in a backslidden state for a matter of weeks or months before they repent and draw nigh to the Lord again.

 

Along with this is the fact that unless it's us, we don't know what's going on in the heart of a backslider. Most often, even if the backslider is still obviously walking in a backslidden state, there is something going on within them, a battle we can't see. To us they may appear to be walking in total darkness but on the inside there may be a battle raging and their mind working to decipher it all.

 

In the end, the answer to your question is not a matter of what anyone thinks, but rather a matter of what Scripture says. Once a person is saved, they are saved and this can never change. Backsliding doesn't mean one loses their salvation and needs to be saved all over again. Such is impossible, as Hebrews addresses.

 

We are saved by grace, not by works. If we had to work to hold onto our salvation then it would no longer be of grace but of works.



#3 swathdiver

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 02:10 PM

Hebrews 6:4-6 - "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."


#4 Junebugwv

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:01 PM


 

1Peter 5:1  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

Although it should grieve me when my backsliding causes me to lose fellowship with the Father,  I am neither saved nor kept by my power,



#5 The Glory Land

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:05 PM

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 - "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

 

 

 

 

This remind me of the Catholic that have Christ placed back on the cross every Sunday. I praise God, that I was removed from this, for I was raised as a Catholic and so were my parents, thank God, for those that shown us the truth. :)



#6 The Glory Land

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Posted 28 September 2013 - 03:08 PM

 


 

1Peter 5:1  Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

Although it should grieve me when my backsliding causes me to lose fellowship with the Father,  I am neither saved nor kept by my power,

 

 

 

 

 

Thank you, for telling us the truth about yourself. This is a good sign of you.



#7 MountainChristian

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 03:25 PM

Here where I live people get into fusses over this.

 

Revelation 22

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

 

I've saw both sides almost come to blows over those two verses.

 

Listening to them it seems to me they can trust Jesus to save them, but they can't trust him if they fail him and sin. One guy would come to work every few weeks and say he was "resaved". Another guy told me 1 sin before death and he would go to Hell. I feel sorry for them, that must be a heavy yoke to carry.



#8 Covenanter

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 04:47 PM

It is significant that ALL the quotations in the OP are from the OT, & concern Israel as a people, not individuals. However bad Israel & Judah became, there were always faithful Jews with lived by faith, who warned the nation as prophets, even led them as kings. These were certainly saved despite what God said about the nation. Gideon, Samson, David, Elijah & the 7,000; Jeremiah & Baruch. Ezekiel writes:

14:20 Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

We know that all the OT saints backslid in some way, even influenced others for the worse (e.g. Solomon) but their repentance is generally recorded. Is there any suggestion that a true child of God, circumcised in heart, could backslide to total loss? I think not.

 

 

Hebrews 6:4-6 - "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Does Hebrews teach loss of salvation for the truly saved. We can read similar warnings through the letter:

3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.

14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

 

10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

 

Strong words, & we dare not doubt them without rejecting the Word of God. But do they apply to those truly born again?

 

The Hebrews letter was to the Jews, showing Christ as the fulfilment of the Law, promises & the mediator & sacrifice of the new covenant. Those saved, & in  Christ, CANNOT be lost, though we all stumble in our walk, & fail to show total love for God & neighbour, yet we live, & walk in the Spirit. I believe therefore that we must consider the warnings to be against the generation of Jews who knew Jesus & saw his miracles, & heard the Apostles preach in his name, who could not deny notable miracles, yet rejected their true Messiah. It seems the apostles had to warn their converts (e.g. Galatians) of the dangers. Perhaps those who received the Gospel with enthusiasm turn away under persecution.  The warnings also apply down the Gospel age to people who claim salvation, & show evidence in changed lives, testimony, baptism, even preaching the Gospel in saving power, & yet are living a lie, & turn away from Christ to their eternal loss. We all know of such, some famous.

 

Am I, are you, confident that we will be faithful unto death? Not in my strength, but only in Jesus faithful promises.



#9 Junebugwv

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Posted 29 September 2013 - 09:53 PM

Here where I live people get into fusses over this.

--------

Listening to them it seems to me they can trust Jesus to save them, but they can't trust him if they fail him and sin. One guy would come to work every few weeks and say he was "resaved". Another guy told me 1 sin before death and he would go to Hell. I feel sorry for them, that must be a heavy yoke to carry.

We have quite a few Freewill Baptists in our area that believe that, too.  They say everlasting life is a free choice, but you you may choose to stop believing.  They need to learn:

 

 

 

2 Timothy 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.


Edited by Junebugwv, 29 September 2013 - 09:53 PM.


#10 Covenanter

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:13 AM

We have quite a few Freewill Baptists in our area that believe that, too.  They say everlasting life is a free choice, but you you may choose to stop believing.  They need to learn:

 

 

 

2 Timothy 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

 

Does 2 Tim 2:13 mean we can turn away from Jesus in unbelief & sin, & still be saved becasue God abideth faithful? Surely not. The passage reads:

 

It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.
 
Because we once made a decision - or claimed salvation in some way - does not guarantee salvation however we live. And we will not be able to accuse God of denying himself or being unfaithful when we turn away in unbelief & sin. No! Our faith must be an abiding faith, evident by our life.
 
 
   

#11 Pastor Scott Markle

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 09:35 AM

A couple of questions, if I may --

 

1.  How exactly are we defining the word "backsliding" in relation to New Testament believers?

 

2.  What kind of New Testament believer would 1 Corinthians 3:15 be describing?

 

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."


Edited by Pastor Scott Markle, 30 September 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#12 swathdiver

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 03:31 PM

A couple of questions, if I may --

 

2.  What kind of New Testament believer would 1 Corinthians 3:15 be describing?

 

"If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire."

 

One who didn't lay up treasures heaven, who failed to carry out the Lord's commands for NT believers.



#13 heartstrings

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 04:14 PM

We have quite a few Freewill Baptists in our area that believe that, too.  They say everlasting life is a free choice, but you you may choose to stop believing.  They need to learn:

 

 

 

2 Timothy 2:13  If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Another verse to show them....

 

Matthew 7:23

And then will I profess unto them, I once knew you but you chose to stop believing depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Nope!

 

Matthew 7:23

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.



#14 beameup

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Posted 30 September 2013 - 06:03 PM

"Backsliding" applies to Israelites, it is not even found in the New Testament

and does not apply to the Church "the Bride of Christ".

 

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Eph 4:30
 
If you walk in the Spirit, you will not grieve the Holy Spirit,
if you walk in the Flesh and "do your own thing", you will.

Edited by beameup, 30 September 2013 - 06:06 PM.


#15 Pastor Scott Markle

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 08:02 AM

 

"Backsliding" applies to Israelites, it is not even found in the New Testament . . .

 

Brother "Beameup,"

 

How exactly would you define the word "backsliding" in relation to an Old Testament Israelite believer?

 

And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Eph 4:30
 
If you walk in the Spirit, you will not grieve the Holy Spirit,
if you walk in the Flesh and "do your own thing", you will.

 

I fully agree.  The specific question at any given moment for the New Testament believer is this -- Are you walking after the Spirit at this moment, or are you walking after the flesh?



#16 Covenanter

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 09:20 AM

beameup, on 01 Oct 2013 - 12:03 AM, said:snapback.png

 

"Backsliding" applies to Israelites, it is not even found in the New Testament . . .

Scott:

 

Brother "Beameup,"

 

How exactly would you define the word "backsliding" in relation to an Old Testament Israelite believer?

 

 

That is the point - Israel as a people are accused by the LORD of backsliding. AFAIK the term is not used of individual Israelite believers. The nation repeatedly turned away from the LORD, sometimes led by corrupt leaders, & sometimes by the grumbling. Sometimes godly leaders called them back, as Moses & Gideon, but eventually corrupt leaders refused to listen to the prophets of God, & led the nation to ruin.

 

We can find such individuals - Samson, Eli, David, Solomon, but we read of their repentance.



#17 Pastor Scott Markle

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 10:39 AM

 

That is the point - Israel as a people are accused by the LORD of backsliding. AFAIK the term is not used of individual Israelite believers.

 

Yet Proverbs 14:14 applies the Biblical idea and doctrine of "backsliding" to individuals --

 

"The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself."



#18 Covenanter

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 11:25 AM

Yet Proverbs 14:14 applies the Biblical idea and doctrine of "backsliding" to individuals --

 

"The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man shall be satisfied from himself."

OK - but do we need a"doctrine" of backsliding. Repentance is open to returning sinners, including those who have backslidden from a position of both a nominal faith & a true faith. We can't tell the difference - we must assume a backslider is LOST & must repent. Saved backsliders will repent.



#19 Pastor Scott Markle

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 12:08 PM

OK - but do we need a"doctrine" of backsliding.

 

Brother "Covenanter,"

 

In answer to your question, I would contend that, yes, any doctrine (teaching) that is presented within God's Holy Word is a doctrine (teaching) that the Lord our God Himself has determined that we need.  Furthermore, I would contend that the better question would be whether our understanding concerning this "doctrine of backsliding" is actually in accord with the teaching of God's Word on the matter, or is in contradiction to the teaching of God's Word on the matter.  Indeed, we should be seeking to understand the very teaching of God's own Word concerning the definition of "backsliding," the motivation for "backsliding," the consequences of "backsliding," the solution to "backsliding" (if any), the work of God in this solution to "backsliding," the responsibility that is set before us in this solution to "backsliding," the results if we fulfill our responsibility in this solution to "backsliding," etc.

 

Finally, without seeking to be overly abrasive, I would contend that you yourself already possess a "doctrine of backsliding" and that you have actually proceeded to teach it on this very thread.  Indeed, the points that you have presented concerning your "doctrine of backsliding" have included the following:

 

Repentance is open to returning sinners, including those who have backslidden from a position of both a nominal faith & a true faith. We can't tell the difference - we must assume a backslider is LOST & must repent. Saved backsliders will repent.

 

1.  "Backsliding" is possible from a position of both a nominal faith and a true faith.

2.  The solution to "backsliding" requires Biblical repentance on the part of the "backslider."

3.  When we observe the "backsliding" of another, it is impossible for us to discern the difference between the "backsliding" from a position of a nominal faith and the "backsliding" from a position of a true faith.

4.  Because it is impossible for us to discern this difference, we are Biblically compelled to view all "backsliders" as being spiritually lost in their trespasses and sins.

5.  "Backsliders" from a position of a true faith will certainly repent at some point in time.

 

Now, I myself, in my understanding concerning "the doctrine of backsliding," would have disagreement with you concerning some elements of points #1, #3, #4, & #5.



#20 Doc Flay

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Posted 01 October 2013 - 01:49 PM

As a former backslider, I agree with most of the statements presented on this thread; Although I would be under conviction for other statements that have been made.

 

I was a backslider for thirty years.

 

I tried many times to come out of my backsliding condition, without success.

 

In all the thirty years of my backsliding I never once thought I wasn't save.

 

Its only when I came back to the Lord three and a half years ago, that I started have struggles with assurance of Salvation.  






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