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The Tower Of Babel


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#1 allen32

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 03:50 PM

do you think there was one race before the tower of babel our was there more. we know he made the language different. genesis 11:6-9 but at the some time did god make different the race. 



#2 DaveW

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:09 PM

There is still only one race.
Certain attributes have gained prominence in certain groups because of isolation.
But every group of people can interbreed with every other group - one race.

God made groups of language - people gathered according to understanding of language and separated on that basis. As they bred, common attributes became prominent.
Simple genetics, not miraculous intervention.

#3 Salyan

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:10 PM

There is still only one race.
Certain attributes have gained prominence in certain groups because of isolation.
But every group of people can interbreed with every other group - one race.

God made groups of language - people gathered according to understanding of language and separated on that basis. As they bred, common attributes became prominent.
Simple genetics, not miraculous intervention.

 

:goodpost:



#4 Covenanter

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 04:15 PM

There was one race - one blood - a few generations from Noah. There would be the beginning of genetic variations in the families & the LORD would have divided the languages along the genetic lines he created. Those genetic variations would be accentuated by the separation as intermarriage would not be possible when they all separated. Thus the races would develop, with living conditions diet, climate, etc, playing their part.



#5 allen32

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:01 PM

i know there is only one race i was asking if it all come down it the tower of babel that all



#6 HappyChristian

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 05:16 PM

i know there is only one race i was asking if it all come down it the tower of babel that all

I believe that is where the differences began to be obvious. When God changed the languages to confound their goal of building the tower to Heaven, people very likely migrated to those who spoke the same language.  I've seen mappings that show where the language groups moved to together.  Then, by breeding only with that group, genetics brought out certain traits that are still obvious in those groups today.   



#7 John81

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 06:45 PM

Beware of the evolutionary nonsense that comes up in this these days.



#8 heartstrings

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 07:29 PM

Being close to thanksgiving and all, I was recently reading some interesting things about turkeys. Turkeys, being indigenous to the Americas, were first domesticated somewhere in Mexico, I think.many years before Columbus landed. WHen the Europeans arrived, turkeys began to be exported and many wound up in the land of Turkey, hence the name. Anyway, the 'turkeys' which were then bred in the Old World for many years eventually varied greatly from the original indigenous turkeys by the time  they were later brought back to the Americas. Now turkeys come in all sizes, shapes and colors which very different from the ones the "pilgrims" ate for Thanksgiving. :) I doubt very seriously there were breeds of solid white turkeys in the original wild turkey populations, but that's where white turkey breeds came from.
 
Point being; the potential for diversity was carried in the genes of Noah and his Wife, and his sons' wives.....  confusion of languages at Babel created the scattering of people groups.....genetic isolation did the rest.

Edited by heartstrings, 02 December 2013 - 07:48 PM.


#9 Invicta

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:05 PM

 

Being close to thanksgiving and all, I was recently reading some interesting things about turkeys. Turkeys, being indigenous to the Americas, were first domesticated somewhere in Mexico, I think.many years before Columbus landed. WHen the Europeans arrived, turkeys began to be exported and many wound up in the land of Turkey, hence the name. Anyway, the 'turkeys' which were then bred in the Old World for many years eventually varied greatly from the original indigenous turkeys by the time  they were later brought back to the Americas. Now turkeys come in all sizes, shapes and colors which very different from the ones the "pilgrims" ate for Thanksgiving. :) I doubt very seriously there were breeds of solid white turkeys in the original wild turkey populations, but that's where white turkey breeds came from.
 
Point being; the potential for diversity was carried in the genes of Noah and his Wife, and his sons' wives.....  confusion of languages at Babel created the scattering of people groups.....genetic isolation did the rest.

 

 

I agree.

 

I read somewhere that in the 1800s turkeys were herded from Norfolk to Lonon, a fair distance.



#10 HappyChristian

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:11 PM



Being close to thanksgiving and all, I was recently reading some interesting things about turkeys. Turkeys, being indigenous to the Americas, were first domesticated somewhere in Mexico, I think.many years before Columbus landed. WHen the Europeans arrived, turkeys began to be exported and many wound up in the land of Turkey, hence the name. Anyway, the 'turkeys' which were then bred in the Old World for many years eventually varied greatly from the original indigenous turkeys by the time they were later brought back to the Americas. Now turkeys come in all sizes, shapes and colors which very different from the ones the "pilgrims" ate for Thanksgiving. :) I doubt very seriously there were breeds of solid white turkeys in the original wild turkey populations, but that's where white turkey breeds came from.

Point being; the potential for diversity was carried in the genes of Noah and his Wife, and his sons' wives..... confusion of languages at Babel created the scattering of people groups.....genetic isolation did the rest.


Exactly. We actually see the same thing after the flood. We have a rich abundance of diversity in the animal kingdom today that began as simple 2 and 7 of each species - not every breed of every species. Humankind is the same way. And there's nothing evolutionary about it! 

#11 heartstrings

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:18 PM

Exactly. We actually see the same thing after the flood. We have a rich abundance of diversity in the animal kingdom today that began as simple 2 and 7 of each species - not every breed of every species. Humankind is the same way. And there's nothing evolutionary about it! 

right



#12 JerryNumbers

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 08:32 PM

There is but one race of people & we are all humans, homo sapiens, made in the image of God. Yet all people do not have the same color of skin, the same exact characteristics. God was the author of that & it did not come about by evolution. And I fail to understand why anyone would deny there's a difference in humans. Its not being racist its just admitting all humans are not exactly the same. 

 

The world we live in separates us, divides us, into different races so we can be identified one from the other. And its important to do so especially when it comes to crimes. For example if a crime is committed by a Caucasian, white person the offices of the law will look for a Caucasian, white person. If this was not used them many criminals would never be caught & crimes rate would be even worse than they presently are.

 

And it would seem the 1st two Adam created out of the dust, & Eve created out of Adams rib where alike except for one being a man, & the other a woman.



#13 Galations 2:20

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Posted 02 December 2013 - 10:37 PM

There is but one race of people & we are all humans, homo sapiens, made in the image of God. Yet all people do not have the same color of skin, the same exact characteristics. God was the author of that & it did not come about by evolution. And I fail to understand why anyone would deny there's a difference in humans. Its not being racist its just admitting all humans are not exactly the same. 

 

The world we live in separates us, divides us, into different races so we can be identified one from the other. And its important to do so especially when it comes to crimes. For example if a crime is committed by a Caucasian, white person the offices of the law will look for a Caucasian, white person. If this was not used them many criminals would never be caught & crimes rate would be even worse than they presently are.

 

And it would seem the 1st two Adam created out of the dust, & Eve created out of Adams rib where alike except for one being a man, & the other a woman.

 

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 

 

We are one race created in the image of God.

 

This separating and dividing is of the world and creates all kinds of contention and discrimination.



#14 JerryNumbers

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:12 AM

Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 

 

We are one race created in the image of God.

 

This separating and dividing is of the world and creates all kinds of contention and discrimination.

 

Contention? I suppose it does for all who are racist & believes that one race is better than the other, yet for those who are not it doesn't.

 

Sad we have so may racist people of all colors.



#15 ASongOfDegrees

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 12:13 AM

Beware of the evolutionary nonsense that comes up in this these days.

I agree, John. People are stating things that really have no proof and are based on the "Out of Africa" theory.


Edited by ASongOfDegrees, 03 December 2013 - 12:14 AM.


#16 irishman

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 10:49 AM

Imust be color blind, but I see people as people, and all need the same Savior.

 

With that said, I don't know any more than anyone else whether the races originated at Babel, but it sounds reasonable to me.  The Bible makes it clear that God confounded the languages to separate them (so much for unions!) but it would take years for them to discover who spoke one language or another with so many people obviously present.  The color and facial features would make it much easier to identify with those of like tongue.  Just my thoughts on the matter. (I may not be available for replies, so have at it!)



#17 HappyChristian

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 11:13 AM

Out of Africa theory? Not quite...best begin looking deeper into creation and God's mighty handiwork.  Evolution is the changing of a species into something completely different.  Any species that exists takes on traits of its forbears. Human or animal. That isn't evolution. That's genetics, and it's fact.  Not theory.  

 

Everyone of us has the potential to look a certain way - created in us via the creation of Adam and Eve.  Those looks are influenced by mixing and matching of breeding. It's a proven fact for anyone who wants to take the time to look into it....but sometimes it's just easier to high-handedly label people when one doesn't understand...

 

The Bible specifically states that all men spoke one language: that specifically contradicts evolution, because it shows that language did not evolve as many evolutionists like to say it did (going from animal sounds to speech, to language).   

 

The people of the earth were journeying together, they stopped to dwell and decided to build a tower to Heaven - in direct opposition to God's command to populate the earth.

 

So God confounded their language and scattered them all over the earth.  Where is Shinar?  In point of fact, it doesn't really matter whether Shinar is in Africa, Asia, or was on the American continent (I know, it wasn't...).  They were scattered all over from that place.  

 

Was the language confounding based on color of skin?  Not likely, since there were a lot of different languages created (linguistics is a fascinating study - it shows the relation of languages to each other that is just mind-boggling and such proof of an orderly God!).   Genesis 10 tells us that the people were divided by family groups:  "after their families, after their tongues, in their lands, after their nations."  Yes, chapter 10 is placed before the Tower...but chapter 10 lists the genealogy far beyond the time of Babel.  And it proves that people gathered in their groups and moved to certain areas.

 

And so, what happens when a group of people interbreed?  Well, certain characteristics - which are present in all human beings - begin to dominate.  That is simple genetics, you know. Not evolution.  And when a group only breeds within that group, their characteristics mark them as being quite different from others.

 

Japheth's descendants moved to western Asia and Europe.  Ham's descendents moved to Egypt and that area (oh no....not OUT of Africa, but INTO it...hmmmm).  Shem's moved to the middle east and southern asia.  The Bible tells us that, not evolutionists.  And they moved after the confounding of the languages, not before.  Because before they were travelling together before.  The Bible tells us so.

 

In all actuality, God's awesome creative power is magnified when looking at this.  God created our genetics to do what they do.  And they were mightily in evidence with the replenishing of the earth into peoples of various nations...

 

 



#18 OLD fashioned preacher

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:00 PM

Exactly. We actually see the same thing after the flood. We have a rich abundance of diversity in the animal kingdom today that began as simple 2 and 7 of each species - not every breed of every species. Humankind is the same way. And there's nothing evolutionary about it! 

Unless you meant sevens verses seven then I'm going to disagree. The Bible said:  Gen 7:2  Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 

Gen 7:3  Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. (emphasis mine)
 
You cannot count male, female, etc and get 7, the wording of "by sevens" and "the male AND" denotes 7 sets of two (think back to elementary math and "sets") making 14 of each clean beast and 14 of each fowl.
 
I'm not emphatic on the unclean because the the flow could denote the uniformity of sets (4 total) but the change in wording from sevens to two probably indicates a change from sets to raw number (2 each). 


#19 HappyChristian

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:25 PM

 

Unless you meant sevens verses seven then I'm going to disagree. The Bible said:  Gen 7:2  Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. 

Gen 7:3  Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth. (emphasis mine)
 
You cannot count male, female, etc and get 7, the wording of "by sevens" and "the male AND" denotes 7 sets of two (think back to elementary math and "sets") making 14 of each clean beast and 14 of each fowl.
 
I'm not emphatic on the unclean because the the flow could denote the uniformity of sets (4 total) but the change in wording from sevens to two probably indicates a change from sets to raw number (2 each). 

 

Yes, that is what I meant.  I know sets of 2 would be needed.   :icon_smile:  Thanks for clarifying for me.  :clapping:



#20 Salyan

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Posted 03 December 2013 - 04:52 PM

I was taught it was actually seven beasts - 3 pairs and 1 for a sacrifice.






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