Jump to content

Photo

Balancing The Christian Life


  • Please log in to reply
158 replies to this topic

#41 candlelight

candlelight

    Super Contributor

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,358 posts
747
Excellent

Posted 25 January 2014 - 08:44 AM

Actually the verse you stated is a command for the priest not to drink on duty and a deep study in the KJV will reveal that alcohol is a sign of blessing from the Lord; but we have discussed that to death here

 

The question I would like to ask is, If you are using the KJ or another translation, how is that effecting your walk with Christ?, which will effect your community. I think we miss this sometimes when we get into these debates. 

 

Can you be more specific, Jeffrey?  



#42 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:13 AM

Hi AVBibleBeliever. Since you worded that question in such a leading way, I think I'll be the first (perhaps only) on this thread to say that yes, I cannot read and understand the AV text as it stands. I admit that I have always struggled with the AV's sentence constructions and words, and I often have to use a dictionary. Perhaps part of this is owing to unfamiliarity, because I think and write in a different style of English to the AV.

 

Are you seriously saying you cannot understand Collosians chapter two as written? 

 

There is no odd sentence structure or words in it.

 

your reading comprehension must be very low then when you read the NASB it is college level reading while the AV is sixth grade level.



#43 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:16 AM

I believe what I have read and understood that the Gospel was written so that a plowboy could understand it. 

As some have said, the KJ uses archaic language in that, even in America, we never spoke in an Elizabethan language, look at the Declaration of Independence.If you choose to use the KJ, fine. I think people cross the line to say that it is the only Bible that should be used, it is Bibliolatry in my opinion

I have never said it is the only Bible to use or should be used.



#44 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:29 AM

Let me ask this.

 

Are Christian's to abstain from certain things?

 

I remember a letter that was sent around that said, Acts 15:28, 29 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;  That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

 

Now is it legalism to abstain from fornication? 

 

This one of those taste not, touch not, handle not type of instructions and if so the OP would feel that it is and he can go around fornicating with whomever and if he was rebuked he would be quick to call a person a legalist or being legalistic.

 

Maybe they felt that the person who had his fathers wife was unjustly put out of fellowship because of doing that that was not named even amongst the Gentiles.

 

I agree above that legalism is adding something to the work of Christ for your salvation and that is what Paul taught.

 

The context of Collosians has to do with the admixture of the Religious culture of the day to their Christian walk.  Such things were eating meats sacrificed to Idols which included strangled animals, Fornication was part of the religious culture of that day among the heathen, as well as drinking blood.

 

I always say if your culture agrees with the Bible keep your culture but if it doesn't then you have to get rid of your culture.  Sad thing many throw away the Bible and get a new version that allows them wrongly join the word of truth with their culture


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 25 January 2014 - 03:15 PM.


#45 TheSword

TheSword

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts
664
Excellent

Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:36 AM

Are you seriously saying you cannot understand Collosians chapter two as written? 

 

There is no odd sentence structure or words in it.

 

your reading comprehension must be very low then when you read the NASB it is college level reading while the AV is sixth grade level.

 

That's a rather unkind thing to say, not to mention wholly inaccurate. KJV is written at a 12th-grade level, NASB at a 10th-grade level, and NIV at a 7th-grade level according to current academic standards.



#46 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:47 AM

That's a rather unkind thing to say, not to mention wholly inaccurate. KJV is written at a 12th-grade level, NASB at a 10th-grade level, and NIV at a 7th-grade level according to current academic standards.

 

I think you have your stats wrong about the AV being 12th grade.  Gale Riplinger already did a study on it and proved it is 6th grade.  most of the words are no more that two syllables and they are very simple wording.  NASB was proven to be second year college most the words are two and three syllables and the use of more complicated English words were used.  The NIV well you would have to tell us which one seeing there are now 5 different translations. the NIV is not a word for word but a dynamic equivalent using a uper high school level wording.

 

Most of this study can be found by Riplinger and others, and Brandplucked did some studies on it as well that can be found on his site.

 

And My statement was not unkiind he either didn't read the text or was being disingenuous in his statements. It is one of the easest chapters to read and understand.  some of the hardest words would have been beholding, steadfastness, and rudiments and if anyone reading this post would say these are hard to understand or read is a not being truthful.



#47 candlelight

candlelight

    Super Contributor

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,358 posts
747
Excellent

Posted 25 January 2014 - 09:52 AM

Legalism should not be confused with standards.  Christians are to have standards to live by.  Legalism and standards mean two different things.

"But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people (God's own); that ye should shew (show) forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvelous light:  10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God:  which had not obtained mercy, but have obtained mercy.  11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts (desires), which war against the soul." ~ I Peter 2:9-11



#48 TheSword

TheSword

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 840 posts
664
Excellent

Posted 25 January 2014 - 10:44 AM

I think you have your stats wrong about the AV being 12th grade.  Gale Riplinger already did a study on it and proved it is 6th grade.  most of the words are no more that two syllables and they are very simple wording.  NASB was proven to be second year college most the words are two and three syllables and the use of more complicated English words were used.  The NIV well you would have to tell us which one seeing there are now 5 different translations. the NIV is not a word for word but a dynamic equivalent using a uper high school level wording.

 

Most of this study can be found by Riplinger and others, and Brandplucked did some studies on it as well that can be found on his site.

 

And My statement was not unkiind he either didn't read the text or was being disingenuous in his statements. It is one of the easest chapters to read and understand.  some of the hardest words would have been beholding, steadfastness, and rudiments and if anyone reading this post would say these are hard to understand or read is a not being truthful.

 

Well...I suppose the other 99% of people who have done similar studies on reading level must be wrong then. There's much more to reading levels than the number of syllables like word choice, sentence structure, syntax. I'm familiar with Riplinger's work and find it to be academically lacking and could list several people of equal or greater scholastic standing who disagree with her conclusions. I flatly disagree with you on this particular issue.

 

Additionally, ease of understanding is entirely subjective. What's clear to you may not be clear to someone else. Who are you to tell someone what is and is not easy for them to understand? That kind of arrogance is what shuts people off to KJVO advocates. It's one thing to help people grasp the language use in the KJV so that it becomes easier for them but it's entirely different and presumptuous to declare someone stupid or a liar because they struggle with reading something rather than give them the benefit of the doubt. That's why I say it was unkind.



#49 OLD fashioned preacher

OLD fashioned preacher

    Termite in a yoyo

  • Moderators
  • 1,925 posts
767
Excellent
  • Locationunder a rock, but crawl out occasionally

Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:30 AM

 

 

And My statement was not unkiind he either didn't read the text or was being disingenuous in his statements. It is one of the easest chapters to read and understand.  some of the hardest words would have been beholding, steadfastness, and rudiments and if anyone reading this post would say these are hard to understand or read is a not being truthful.

Not necessarily so (the phrase I highlighted in red), let me give you the case of 3 high school graduates I've known personally who would fit this category.

 

1) From Nevada: female, electrician's helper, around 2002. She thought the 'E' in Queen Anne furniture or in Wilde Lake Rd. was to be pronounced. She did not know what "asine", "protracted" or "definitive" meant.

 

2) From Texas: male, active duty Navy, around 1993. He spelled "the" thu, He didn't know what "delegate" or "archaic" meant.

 

3) From Massachusetts: male, during the 1980's. He and the girl he was with (now his wife) got saved and in the next week's sermon heard the word "fornication" for the first time in his life. As the message progress he realized what it was (he had wondered if it was some kind of skin disease) and turns to her and says, "What, that's us!" (yes, in the middle of the message -- gotta love new Christians). 

 

Yes, all high school grads -- all possessing a vocabulary (at that time) which barely exceeded profanity, "dude", "like rad", "hater", and other primarily monosyllabic words of 1-5 (on rare occasion 6) letters



#50 GraceSaved

GraceSaved

    Daughter of the King of kings

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 540 posts
136
Excellent
  • LocationU.S.A.

Posted 25 January 2014 - 11:49 AM

Legalism is adding rules to the gospel in an attempt to stay in God's saving grace or perfect your salvation. This is what the Judaizers were doing to the Galatians.  It has nothing to do with standards, rules, church by-laws, statement of faiths, etc. That's a modern manipulation of the term  by Christians who don't want anyone telling them what to do at all.

I believe that is stated in the first sentence of original post.  :-)



#51 GraceSaved

GraceSaved

    Daughter of the King of kings

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 540 posts
136
Excellent
  • LocationU.S.A.

Posted 25 January 2014 - 12:37 PM

It appears there is confusion between legalism and standards,  However, when one imposes their standards and expect others to live by them or they break fellowship, that is a form of legalism.



#52 HappyChristian

HappyChristian

    Waiting patiently (ahem) for grandchildren...

  • Moderators
  • 17,872 posts
2,017
Excellent

Posted 25 January 2014 - 12:58 PM

I dont know, do you look around here? Some people are more concerned with Bible translations more than justice, mercy and more important seeing people come to Christ which is our mission


I have noticed that a few people do seem to have a problem understanding that, upon joining the forum, the Bible we quote here is the KJV. But, no , I havent noticed a lack of concern for the other things you mentioned - and I've been here a good while...Seeing people come to Christ isn't all we are to do.

#53 John81

John81

    Running to Win

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 61,044 posts
5,492
Excellent

Posted 25 January 2014 - 02:24 PM

Many years ago the KJB was considered 8th grade level, but that was back when they still actually educated children and expected them to learn. By todays standards the KJB has been moved to the 12th grade level with some now beginning to say it's college level; along with the works of Shakespeare and some others.

 

I graduated high school in 1981 and at least a half dozen students could read between the barely functional and about a 5th or 6th grade level.

 

Many times today it's much worse; which is why most colleges have remedial reading programs (along with many other classes to try and catch students up to the high school level).

 

Many high school graduates today can barely read, write and spell; have little mathematical skills and are almost totally ignorant of history or even current affairs.

 

That's a problem of failure to educate students (and in some cases of students failure to put any effort into learning), not a problem with the KJB.

 

Other than people with cognitive impairments, I've not known anyone who really tried to learn to read and understand the KJB who couldn't do so.

 

An important point we should keep in mind is the necessity of help from the Holy Ghost to truly understand the Word of God. If one doesn't have the Holy Ghost or simply ignores the Holy Ghost and tries to do it all on their own, they will fail.



#54 Jeffrey

Jeffrey

    Resident Liberal

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 605 posts
  • LocationChicago suburbs

Posted 25 January 2014 - 04:55 PM

Can you be more specific, Jeffrey?  

How is the Gospel effecting you and your neighbors? is it making a difference? I know Christians who don't know their neighbors, don't interact with their community and rather hide from community/culture rather than engage it. You can do that with the KJV, NIV ESV 



#55 Jeffrey

Jeffrey

    Resident Liberal

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 605 posts
  • LocationChicago suburbs

Posted 25 January 2014 - 05:17 PM

 

I always say if your culture agrees with the Bible keep your culture but if it doesn't then you have to get rid of your culture.  Sad thing many throw away the Bible and get a new version that allows them wrongly join the word of truth with their culture

Culture is what it is, a culture have their own nuances. some may or not be sinful compared to other cultures, alcohol for one. most cultures, it's just alcohol. In Muslim and IFB circles, its sin.


 



#56 John81

John81

    Running to Win

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 61,044 posts
5,492
Excellent

Posted 25 January 2014 - 07:33 PM

I live in a small town so everyone knows everyone else and knows their "religious" standing.

 

One of my neighbors attends the same church we do, another attends a different church, three other neighbors have their own religious ideas and are not interested in hearing from others about it. Out of all my neighbors, two and possibly three are saved.

 

As James said we should be, we are doers of the Word, not hearers only. Our faith isn't confined to the internet or the inside of our church.



#57 candlelight

candlelight

    Super Contributor

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,358 posts
747
Excellent

Posted 26 January 2014 - 08:49 AM

er

How is the Gospel effecting you and your neighbors? is it making a difference? I know Christians who don't know their neighbors, don't interact with their community and rather hide from community/culture rather than engage it. You can do that with the KJV, NIV ESV 

 

I take the Word of God to people in my area.  I have witnessed to my neighbors, so I am pretty sure that they know I am a Bible believing Christian.  We have lived in my home for four years.  One of my next door neighbors, might be convicted, b/c she hides from me.  The first year I moved in, she was very friendly, however, I shared the Word of God with her and she ignores me now.  I have shared God's Word with the other next door neighbor and she speaks with me.  Actually, she is quite open to hearing God's Word.  When I go about town, I witness every chance I get.  I leave gospel tracts, but the Lord also gives me many opportunities to share God's Word and my testimony with other people.  As a church, we went door knocking, in my town last summer.  My pastor got a call from the city saying that a neighbor complained.  We are working to get that resolved by an IFB attorney, as we believe it is Satan that doesn't want us in the community.  People in my town are hungry for the Word of God.  I see it everyday.



#58 Bro K

Bro K

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 582 posts
221
Excellent
  • LocationGate City VA

Posted 26 January 2014 - 08:54 AM

I believe in the preserved word but not in the KJVO.  However, if I post scriptures, I will use KJ out of respect for the forum rules.  I usually paraphrase.

Paraphrase: Is that what God says: along with what man says; that God meant to say??



#59 Jeffrey

Jeffrey

    Resident Liberal

  • Banned
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 605 posts
  • LocationChicago suburbs

Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:01 AM

Paraphrase: Is that what God says: along with what man says; that God meant to say??

It hasn't been proven in any other post that the KJV is the only Bible we should use.



#60 Bro K

Bro K

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 582 posts
221
Excellent
  • LocationGate City VA

Posted 26 January 2014 - 11:28 AM

It hasn't been proven in any other post that the KJV is the only Bible we should use.

Post #14:

GraceSaved, just a note from the Online Baptist rules: 3) Feel free to quote the Bible, if you do we ask that you use the KJV. This is done to avoid confusion.

The Administrators and Moderators of this site believe that the KJV is Gods preserved Word for the English speaking people, and we ask that you respect that and use the KJV when quoting scripture.






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

The Fundamental Top 500IFB1000 The Fundamental Top 500