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#21 candlelight

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:03 PM

Yes, I did say that I was lacking a scripture, as you noted II Thessalonians 2:1.  I noticed that after I posted more on the Rapture.  

Since I was the only person who said where the actual word originated from, it looked like you were talking to me.

If you notice above, I already posted something about the Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, and Post-Trib as being man made things.  I take the KJV as my final authority.  :)



#22 candlelight

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:25 PM

I like David Cloud’s (Way of Life Encyclopedia) explanation of the Rapture of the Church-age believers. 

 

Pre-wrath Rapture is more "post-trib" than "mid-trib", since it is supposed to occur sometime after the 3 1/2 year mid-trib point.

 

Sorry, I forgot to comment on your post Linda.  I also like David Cloud.  He does a nice job explaining a lot of things.  



#23 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:27 PM

  I take the KJV as my final authority.   :)

me too


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 31 January 2014 - 04:27 PM.


#24 GraceSaved

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 04:50 PM

It was not a rip on your comments or the choice of verses though you lacked 2Thess 2:1

 

My comments were about how we use un-biblical terms for our doctrines.  If we use Biblical terms there is a tendency that we will remember the scripture text and location better

 

I did not comment on the tee-shirt because it was not a real tee-shirt just some text over a tee-shirt picture.  In reality GS posted a tee-shirt that does not exist except in a JPG format it is nothing she is wearing. ???????

Actually you can order the shirt.



#25 HappyChristian

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Posted 31 January 2014 - 06:06 PM

 Those that don't believe in the rapture don't believe in the virgin birth, the second coming of Christ or a place called Hell.

This is not true, TGL.  It's a broad brush statement that didn't need to be made.



#26 ASongOfDegrees

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:05 AM

I can't find "rapture" in my Bible.

Bet you can't find "trinity" either. 



#27 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:41 AM

Bet he can't find computer or car in them either. LOL

#28 LindaR

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 04:53 AM

We do find the word "harpazo" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17:

 

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Strong's Greek Dictionary
726. harpazo

harpazo har-pad'-zo

 

from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

 

There are 17 instances in 13 verses of the word "harpazo" in the NT:

 

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take (harpazo) it by force.(harpazo)

 

Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away (harpazo) that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

 

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take (harpazo) him by force, (harpazo) to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

 

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth (harpazo) them, and scattereth the sheep.

 

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall (harpazo) any man pluck (harpazo) them out of my hand.

 

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck (harpazo) them out of my Father's hand.

 

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

 

Acts 23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take (harpazo) him by force (harpazo) from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

 

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up (harpazo) to the third heaven.

 

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up (harpazo) into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling (harpazo) them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up (harpazo) unto God, and to his throne.



#29 candlelight

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:44 AM

WOW, Linda!  Great verses.  Thank you.  I didn't know harpazo could be found in all of those verses.



#30 LindaR

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:31 AM

The rapture, or "catching up" of the Church-age saints is imminent...it can happen at any time.  We need to "get right or get left"!



#31 candlelight

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 08:40 AM

The rapture, or "catching up" of the Church-age saints is imminent...it can happen at any time.  We need to "get right or get left"!

 

Amen.  That is what the word of God says.  It is clear from the scriptures.  They say what they say, and mean what they say.



#32 Covenanter

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:19 AM

This is not funny, the rapture of the saints can happen any day. No man knows the day or hour. Those that don't believe in the rapture don't believe in the virgin birth, the second coming of Christ or a place called Hell.

 

Jesus return & resurrection of the saints - AND the ungodly - can happen any day. No man knows the day or hour. Those that don't believe in the resurrection don't believe in the virgin birth, the second coming of Christ or a place called Hell.

 

The disp doctrine of a supposed "rapture" with the accompanying fiction of left behind, future trib, antichrist, a millennium populated by left behind survivors & converted Jews, all breeding new generations of sinners, and resurrected & glorified church-age believers, Jesus ruling the earth in person from Jerusalem, all waiting for Satan to appear & lead the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea is quite another doctrine which someone with a lot of imagination put together from random Scriptures.



#33 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:21 AM

Bet you can't find "trinity" either. 

close enough for anyone to see

 

1John  5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.



#34 candlelight

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 09:44 AM

I believe ASOD was making reference to the fact that the word "Godhead" is in the KJV, not the word, "Trinity" which many IFB's use.  



#35 Invicta

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:19 PM

Oh oh.  I didn't mean to open a can of worms.  :-)  I thought the t-shirt was funny.

 

OPerhaps he meant rupture.



#36 Invicta

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Posted 01 February 2014 - 07:33 PM

We do find the word "harpazo" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17:

 

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Strong's Greek Dictionary
726. harpazo

harpazo har-pad'-zo

 

from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

 

There are 17 instances in 13 verses of the word "harpazo" in the NT:

 

Matthew 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take (harpazo) it by force.(harpazo)

 

Matthew 13:19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away (harpazo) that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

 

John 6:15 When Jesus therefore perceived that they would come and take (harpazo) him by force, (harpazo) to make him a king, he departed again into a mountain himself alone.

 

John 10:12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth (harpazo) them, and scattereth the sheep.

 

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall (harpazo) any man pluck (harpazo) them out of my hand.

 

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck (harpazo) them out of my Father's hand.

 

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

 

Acts 23:10 And when there arose a great dissension, the chief captain, fearing lest Paul should have been pulled in pieces of them, commanded the soldiers to go down, and to take (harpazo) him by force (harpazo) from among them, and to bring him into the castle.

 

2 Corinthians 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth; ) such an one caught up (harpazo) to the third heaven.

 

2 Corinthians 12:4 How that he was caught up (harpazo) into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

 

1 Thessalonians 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

 

Jude 1:23 And others save with fear, pulling (harpazo) them out of the fire; hating even the garment spotted by the flesh.

 

Revelation 12:5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up (harpazo) unto God, and to his throne.

 

I do not believe that anyone denies that we who are saved will be caught up to meet Christ in the air when he returns.  The difference of understanding is what happens next.  I believe it is judgment.

 

The saints will be raised on "The Last Day"

 

Joh 6:39  And this is the Father’s will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40  And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:44  No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:54  Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day..
Joh 11:24  Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

 

Sinners will be judged on "The Last Day"     The Last Day is also the Day of Judgment,

Joh 12:48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.



#37 The Glory Land

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 08:03 PM

In the last judgement we will not be judged for our sins. We are now Saints, and will be judged for our good work's. These work's are not for Salvation, but for our own ranks in Heaven.

#38 Covenanter

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 04:20 AM

In the last judgement we will not be judged for our sins. We are now Saints, and will be judged for our good work's. These work's are not for Salvation, but for our own ranks in Heaven.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you , He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. 25 Verily, verily, I say unto you , The hour is coming , and now is , when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live . 26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; 27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming , in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth ; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation

 

Believers already have everlasting life - our works are considered "good" for they are done through the indwelling Holy Spirit.

 

Unbelievers cannot do good & acceptable works - their works are "evil" in God's sight.

 

Note: the hour is coming , in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29 And shall come forth ... One resurrection for all - the so-called "rapture" is glory for the saints, & damnation for the sinner.



#39 Invicta

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 06:54 AM

In the last judgement we will not be judged for our sins. We are now Saints, and will be judged for our good work's. These work's are not for Salvation, but for our own ranks in Heaven.

 

Invicta

Sinners will be judged on "The Last Day"   because the Last Day is also the Day of Judgment,

John 12:48  He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

 

 
As the verses I have already posted show, The saints will be resurrected on the last day and sinners will also be judged on the last day.
 
Rev. 20:11 ¶  And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12  And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14  And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15  And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
 
 
Contrary to what we are often taught, the above verses show the separation of the saved from the damned.  Firstly judgment according to works, Secondly the book of life is opened and those whose names are not written in it are cast into the lake of fire.  This pre-supposes that there are those whose names are in the book of life who are not cast into the lake of fire.  Why would the book of life be opened to judge the lost if the separation had already taken place at the so called rapture?
 
 
 





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