Christians That Are Falling Easy Into This World Traps...

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Christian liberty is the freedom to do that which honours the Lord.

This something that is unique to the saved man.

Did you notice the word lust in Deut 14:26

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So your idea of liberty is to do all the things you were free to do unsaved? What ever happened to "be ye transformed"? How is that a 'new creature"? I guess your kind of liberty trumps that.  So meth, opium, heroin, they'er okay too, since the Bible doesn't condemn them? Smoke a little doobie, snack on some mushrooms, lick some toads, all part of liberty? where do you draw a line? Who is your liberty for, anyways? where do you draw a line? as  lomg as its the law of the land, its okay? So if pedophilia becomes lawful, since the Bible doesn't say a grown man can't marry a 12 year old, then its all cool, part of liberty?

 

 
"All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any."
 
 
"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not".

What do these verse mean to you?

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theres a verse in Romans that talks about being transformed in your mind also, circumcision of the heart, sound familiar?? 

I dont smoke weed; I draw the line where the Bible does,...And for you to accuse me of doing drugs to get high is below, even the most fundy

 

You still haven't exegetied Deut 14:26 yet to prove me wrong

 

Edited by Jeffrey

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theres a verse in Romans that talks about being transformed in your mind also, circumcision of the heart, sound familiar?? 

I dont smoke weed; I draw the line where the Bible does,...And for you to accuse me of doing drugs to get high is below, even the most fundy

 

You still haven't exegetied Deut 14:26 yet to prove me wrong

 

 

So alcohol, which definitely alters the brain and damages udgment, is okay, but weed isn't?

 

Deut 14:26 is an aspect of the law, one of the tithes whch was taken and used for a big party. we, however are not Israel, not under the law, not under even this tithe. I see nothing remotely like this for believers. Rather we are called to be sober:

 

"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you." (Titus 2:1-8)

 

This is all exactly the opposite of the idea of the drinking, partying, dancing, rock-n-roll 'christianity' that is so popular today. Yet Paul calls this 'sound doctrine'.

 

The Lord gave certain things to Israel that He doesn't give us, because of the hardness of their hearts-he allowed divorce for any reason, He allowed multiple wives, and He allowed them a day to party. They were not regenerated believers as we are, they were given allowances because they were hard-hearted,we are not supposed to be.

 

 

Christians are a priesthood of believers-as such, if we want to talk OT, consider that the priests weren't to drink wine nor strong drink, nor were kings or princes, because it perverts judgment. Apparently, as it is in the context, it had something to do with the sin of Nadab and Abihu, because just after their deaths, this command was given.

 

"Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses." Lev 10:9-11

 

How much less, then, shall we, who are ALWAYS to be about the Lord's work, always to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within us, always to be instant in season and out of season, partake of that which deminishes the judgment?

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So alcohol, which definitely alters the brain and damages udgment, is okay, but weed isn't?  For medicinal use , I see no problem with it

 

Deut 14:26 is an aspect of the law, one of the tithes whch was taken and used for a big party. we, however are not Israel, not under the law, not under even this tithe. I see nothing remotely like this for believers. Rather we are called to be sober:

 

"But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine: That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience. The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things; That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children, To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed. Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you." (Titus 2:1-8)

 

Yet in Corinthians Paul tells them not to get drunk, but doesnt tell them to stop drinking,  And says elders are not to be given to much wine, and of course, Jesus made wine at a wedding and drank wine at the last supper and was accused of being a drunk in Luke, remember, the Son of Man come eating and drinking

 

This is all exactly the opposite of the idea of the drinking, partying, dancing, rock-n-roll 'christianity' that is so popular today. Yet Paul calls this 'sound doctrine'.Sound doctrine and rock and roll are two different things, FTR, i dont like RR during worship time

 

The Lord gave certain things to Israel that He doesn't give us, because of the hardness of their hearts-he allowed divorce for any reason, He allowed multiple wives, and He allowed them a day to party. They were not regenerated believers as we are, they were given allowances because they were hard-hearted,we are not supposed to be.

 

So God gives a blessing, then gives it away?? So would you tell a  woman in a marriage where her husband is abusing her and cheating on her to stay, that happens in church way more than drinking does, BTW we can still party, giving thanks to God

 

 

Christians are a priesthood of believers-as such, if we want to talk OT, consider that the priests weren't to drink wine nor strong drink, nor were kings or princes, because it perverts judgment. Apparently, as it is in the context, it had something to do with the sin of Nadab and Abihu, because just after their deaths, this command was given.

 

 "Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations: And that ye may put difference between holy and unholy, and between unclean and clean; And that ye may teach the children of Israel all the statutes which the LORD hath spoken unto them by the hand of Moses." Lev 10:9-11

 

you notice that bolded section, they were forbidden while on duty, theres a big difference

 

How much less, then, shall we, who are ALWAYS to be about the Lord's work, always to be ready to give an answer for the hope that is within us, always to be instant in season and out of season, partake of that which deminishes the judgment?

 

Having neighbors over for a meal, then a drink and cigar afterwards and giving them the gospel is doing the Lords work. 

 

You should study the Temperance Movement of the 1800's, Christians got swept up in morality thanks in part to Finney, that still lingers today. Issues based on morality and nothing that address's the heart issues of man,ore the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you know, the death,burial and His Resurrection that which is the central theme of the Gospel

 

Edited by Jeffrey

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Posted · Report post

I just love the blasphemy and worldliness espoused by the "resident liberal."

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"Having neighbors over for a meal, then a drink and a cigar afterwards and giving them the Gospel is doing the Lord's work."

Not so.  Light hath no fellowship with darkness.  You cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and drink from the devils cup.


1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

"Banquetings" is speaking of social drinking.  And God's Word reveals it to be something that should be in our past, nor our present lives.

Christians should not be advocating drinking alcohol.  Funny how they that do always try to justify it by saying they are giving the Gospel to that person.

Actually, it is sad.   We are in the world, yet not of the world.  We are not to act like the world to win the world.
 

Miss Daisy, 1John2:15-17 and LindaR like this

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You keep saying that Jesus drank wine - the Bible is plain that he did.
What is not plain is whether or not it was alcoholic wine.

The context in certain places indicates that wine in the Bible was not always alcoholic.
Therefore to see the word wine doesn't automatically mean Jesus drank alcohol.

In fact, the context often indicates that the wine He drank was not alcohol, and other verses already shown show that to be a king (for instance) would make it very unlikely that he drank alcohol.

The weight of evidence would suggest that while wine can be alcoholic in the Bible, it is not always, and the best assumption is that because of His various offices Jesus drank no alcohol.

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BY the way, even Charles Spurgeon, who smoked cigars mostly because of health issues, gave them up because he began to be associated with them by cigar companies and saw it would hurt the cause of Christ. He wanted to be known as a preacher of righteousness, not a smoker of such and such brand stogies.

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Jeffrey, you continue to bring up the subject of alcohol in each thread.  HC has asked that we stop discussing it in every thread.  I would suggest that you either start a thread on it or follow the one that  SFIC started the other day.  Just sayin'...

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Never mind, Jeffrey.  The thread was posted for IFB's.  I would appreciate it if you would post a thread on it, though.  You seem to know every scripture on it.  I have been waiting for you to start the topic for awhile now.  *sigh*  I will have no access to the internet for the majority of tomorrow, through the weekend, until Tuesday.  Even today I have to do my packing.

Sorry, Ukelelemike.  I didn't mean to step on your toes.  It just seems that the subject of alcohol comes up in every thread that Jeffrey participates in.  HC asked that he start a thread on it in the marijuana thread.  I am just following her lead.

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BY the way, even Charles Spurgeon, who smoked cigars mostly because of health issues, gave them up because he began to be associated with them by cigar companies and saw it would hurt the cause of Christ. He wanted to be known as a preacher of righteousness, not a smoker of such and such brand stogies.

I'll be a little more blunt (as I've been told I usually am).

For a "christian" to have a drink and a smoke with a lost person hurts our testimony, and shows the lost that we are no different than they are, whereas we are supposed to be separate, supposed to be different. To engage in worldly sins and do the things that the lost do just shows the world that we are hypocritical in our actions when we are "professing" that we are saved and are "supposedly" different.

Same goes for attending rock concerts, getting tattoos, and so on.

A truly saved, separated Bible-believing Christian would strive NOT to be (and act) like the world. Edited by 1John2:15-17

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One of the Moderators can move my two threads on alcohol to an open Forum if they wish.

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One of the Moderators can move my two threads on alcohol to an open Forum if they wish.

 

I didn't know that SFIC.  Great idea!  Ukelelemike, would you please move SFIC's post to the main forum please?  I would love to get the discussion going.  Many threads get derailed and they are hard to follow, b/c this topic always comes up.   

 

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Actually, with the particular thread here, I think it fits okay here, but let me see what I can do.

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Okay.  That's fine.  If you believe it fits, no problem.  Thanks Ukelelemike.  

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I would agree that it fits under the topic.  Falling to the world covers a multitude of things. :runforhills:  Thanks, candle!  :clap:

 

I am curious, though, how I got quoted saying something I didn't say... :eek

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I would agree that it fits under the topic.  Falling to the world covers a multitude of things. :runforhills:  Thanks, candle!  :clap:

 

I am curious, thought, how I got quoted saying something I didn't say... :eek

 

Okay, HC.  I haven't been following this thread b/c it wasn't clear to me what the OP was asking.  It was very vague.  I believe  DaveW gave a great definition of "Christian Liberty" though.

I just remember the marijuana thread and didn't want to get in trouble for talking about alcohol, again.  I am really trying to be on my best behavior b/c when I joined OB again I wasn't.  :)

Should I move my post from the IFB forum on alcohol over here?  It pertains to what Jeffrey is saying.

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Okay, HC.  I haven't been following this thread b/c it wasn't clear to me what the OP was asking.  It was very vague.  I believe  DaveW gave a great definition of "Christian Liberty" though.  Me, too!

I just remember the marijuana thread and didn't want to get in trouble for talking about alcohol, again.  I am really trying to be on my best behavior b/c when I joined OB again I wasn't.   :)  

Should I move my post from the IFB forum on alcohol over here?  It pertains to what Jeffrey is saying.

If you want to move it, that's fine.

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*Repost*  for Jeffrey.  This is something I wrote in the marijuana thread.
 

 
John 2:1-10

King James Version (KJV)

 
And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
  
The "good wine" was not alcoholic wine.  It was PURE grape juice.  I am shocked when I hear Christians talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine.  How could the sinless Son of God miraculously fabricate a wine which His own Holy word denounced as "the poison of the serpent." Proverbs 23-32.  Lets flip the coin and show the other side.  Some Christians will use every gimmick of interpretation and every technical loophole. Christ's first miracle is one of the most misunderstood  passages in the Bible.  But there is no foundation in scripture to back the assumption that Jesus was an alcoholic.  In the other thread, it was mentioned that Jesus' enemies said that.  I am certainly not going to support his enemies.  Our Saviour is sinless. If Jesus made and drank alcoholic wine, let's all do it.  Lets let our children go on their merry way towards alcoholism.  

Not all wine is alcoholic any more than all cider is hard.  It is inconceivable to me that our blessed Lord Jesus Christ would ever produce an intoxicant, or that He used fermented wine at Passover.  The Jews (at that time) did not drink alcohol during Passover.  It was forbidden.  He used this wine at Passover as the symbol of His own shed blood.

Fermented wine is decayed wine.  Can that be the symbol of new life in the Spirit?  His holy flesh never saw decay or corruption.  The cup of the Lord and the cup of the devil are two entirely different things.  Jesus also miraculously created bread to feed the five thousand, but it was not moldy bread.  Now did he create rotten fish?  Jesus Christ is the creator of life, not death.

Sorry the font is so big.  I copied and pasted this, and got large print for some reason.

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we can drink and smoke now if we want, and tats for that matter, we are no longer under the law, but Fundamentalist wishes we were

Jeffrey, if we are not under the law then why do you keep quoting Deuteronomy 14:26? You can't claim the promises of the law if you refuse to do the works of the law. Furthermore, Jesus explicitly said that he had not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).

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BY the way, even Charles Spurgeon, who smoked cigars mostly because of health issues, gave them up because he began to be associated with them by cigar companies and saw it would hurt the cause of Christ. He wanted to be known as a preacher of righteousness, not a smoker of such and such brand stogies.

Not just any cigars they were Frenchies(from France). First time I heard he smoked them for medical purposes. Have any info on how long he smoked them after he was saved?

Did he quit because he looked upon it as Sin; or because they were using his name to promote their product??

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I remember reading that Spurgeon was walking through town.  He saw a sign in a window that said something to the effect that this is the brand that Spurgeon smokes.  I read at that moment he was convicted and stopped.

 

Ukelelemike can clarify that.

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That's what I heard, too, candle. That he was convicted that he would be remembered for what brand he smoked, and didn't want that to be his influence - he wanted people to think of Christ, instead.  Testimony and influence.

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From what I remember, it was a billboard that CH Spurgeon saw that was selling the brand of cigar that Spurgeon smoked.

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