Christians That Are Falling Easy Into This World Traps...

133 posts in this topic

Posted

Yeah, it was SFIC.  Now I remember.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hmmm - I read it was a sign in a store. Ah, well. Fact remains he was convicted and quit.  :clapping:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Not just any cigars they were Frenchies(from France). First time I heard he smoked them for medical purposes. Have any info on how long he smoked them after he was saved?

Did he quit because he looked upon it as Sin; or because they were using his name to promote their product??

I found this from a letter Spurgeon wronte to a newspaper on the subject:

 "When I have found intense pain relieved, a weary brain soothed, and calm, refreshing sleep obtained by a cigar, I have felt grateful to God, and have blessed His name; this is what I meant, and by no means did I use sacred words triflingly."

 

So it would appear that thee was some issue he dealt with that the tobacco gave some ease to, though what it was I don't know.

 

I have heard that tobbacco use can ease the effects of Parkinson's, though I am not sure of the veracity of it. One thing Spurgeon did do was to show that he was not under the power of it-he willingly gave it up for a long time on the challenge of a pipe smoker, who within a week was back on his pipe, while Spurgeon went months.

Bro K likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hmmm - I read it was a sign in a store. Ah, well. Fact remains he was convicted and quit.  :clapping:

 

I think it was a huge sign, like a billboard.  I could be wrong, though.  It's been awhile since I read the story.

Amen for Spurgeon.   :clap:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Jeffery, not arguing about it-its something each believer must decide on their own, though the advice and teaching of the word can certainly be a help.

 

 

However, my point was not just that-its the entire way of understanding Christian liberty, that it doesn't mean we do as we please, it means that even IN our liberties, we must be willing to consider where we must place our own boundaires on those liberties, and usually, those boundaires are from outside ourselves. Too often Christians are unwilling to do so.."Its MY liberty, MY freedom to do such and such". Great, but what about the God-given responsibilities we have to the glory of God and the edification of others and the expediencey of the gospel?  "Forget that! I'm gonna have a beer, cuz I have LIBERTY IN CHRIST!".

 

 

Every person (saved or unsaved) is pricked in their conscious and convicted of sin;  they either choose to be more Christ-like and flee the sin, suppress the truth, or be unaware of their sin because of a seared conscious.

 

Our liberty should not be a stumbling block for a brother or sister in Christ.  

 

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 

candlelight likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think it was a huge sign, like a billboard.  I could be wrong, though.  It's been awhile since I read the story.

Amen for Spurgeon.   :clap:

I have heard the story but not yet confirmed it by a reliable source.

candlelight likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Jeffrey, if we are not under the law then why do you keep quoting Deuteronomy 14:26? You can't claim the promises of the law if you refuse to do the works of the law. Furthermore, Jesus explicitly said that he had not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).


I want to get to everyone's responses tonight, but I will do this one first,
God made it available to the Isrealites through the OT as a sign of blessing which carried through to the NT and till today. As evidence at the wedding in John's Gospel, mentions if it in Acts 2, and Corinthians,Timothy, Colossians.
I ask again if the Bible talks about grape juice, why in Timothy are elders not to be filled with much grape juice?
Why in Romans and Collosians does Paul tell you that let no man judge you for drinking grape juice? It just does not make spence to Scriptural content! I'm still checking, but I believe that there is no early church history of the teaching of grape juice before the Temperance Movement of the 1800's

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I want to get to everyone's responses tonight, but I will do this one first,
God made it available to the Isrealites through the OT as a sign of blessing which carried through to the NT and till today. As evidence at the wedding in John's Gospel, mentions if it in Acts 2, and Corinthians,Timothy, Colossians.
I ask again if the Bible talks about grape juice, why in Timothy are elders not to be filled with much grape juice?
Why in Romans and Collosians does Paul tell you that let no man judge you for drinking grape juice? It just does not make spence to Scriptural content! I'm still checking, but I believe that there is no early church history of the teaching of grape juice before the Temperance Movement of the 1800's

Its a little something I like to call Context. The context will generally tell you which is which. If you can get drunk off of it, its alcoholic-if its a blessing, its not.

 

Actually, in the OT, there are diffefent words translated 'wine' and omemeans specifically the juice, unfermented, while the other may refer to either. No access to my dictionary right now so can't tell you which at the moment.

candlelight likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Its a little something I like to call Context. The context will generally tell you which is which. If you can get drunk off of it, its alcoholic-if its a blessing, its not.
 
Actually, in the OT, there are diffefent words translated 'wine' and omemeans specifically the juice, unfermented, while the other may refer to either. No access to my dictionary right now so can't tell you which at the moment.


So what the wine and strong drink in Duet 14:26? Or do you contort Scripture to fit your argument?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

Mike, my last post was rude and disrespectful, you did not deserve that,, I humbly and publicly ask for your forgiveness.

Edited by Jeffrey
candlelight likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

You have to go into the Hebrew for this answer, Jeffrey.  The word, "wine" in our English Bible (since the Old Testament was written in Hebrew) is "yayin."  This word, in English, means "grape juice."  That word is almost always translated as "wine" whether or not the grape juice is fermented or not.  When we think wine, we naturally think it is fermented.  The word "wine" in the Bible is a generic term.  The context indicates whether it was fermented or not.  And example of this is..."Thus saith the LORD, As the new wine is found in the cluster, and one saith, Destroy it not; for a blessing is in it:  so will I do for my servants' sakes, that I may not destroy them all." ~ Isaiah 65:8

Grape juice is called "wine" when it is talking about fermented drink.  Another example of this is found in this OT scripture.  "And gladness is taken away and joy out of the plentiful field; and in the vineyards there shall be no singing, neither shall there be shouting:  the treaders shall tread out no wine in their presses; I have made their vintage shouting to cease." ~ Isaiah 16:10

As soon as the juice was pressed out of grapes it was called wine.  In another OT scripture it says.  "And he drank of the wine, and was drunken:  and he was uncovered in his tent." ~ Genesis 9:21

Remember, this refers to Noah.  He got drunk on it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Wine Strongs 3196, bubbling fermenting

New wine had alcohol see Hosea 4:11 and Acts 2:11

Skekar intoxicating liquor , I'll get strings numbers later

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Shekar Strongs 7941

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Made a mistake, Acts 2:13 for new wine that has alcohol in it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I just realized that I didn't look at Deuteronomy 14:26.  However, Uke talked about context which is correct.  I will have to read the chapter.

I will have to get to these scriptures later, Jeffrey.  My husband just got home from work.  I am in the middle of preparing dinner.  I am getting the house together for our trip.  

I should be on early in the morning tomorrow.  However, we are leaving after that.  If the conversation is still going on Tuesday night, when I get home, I will get to it then.  Thanks:)  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Made a mistake, Acts 2:13 for new wine that has alcohol in it

 

Again, read the context of the chapter.  This was at Pentacost when they were speaking in other languages (tongues).  
 

The enemies of the Christians said this.  Peter rebukes them by saying, "For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day." ~ Acts 2:15

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ok go with your husband, family fine is waaaay more important than this forum

candlelight likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I just love the blasphemy and worldliness espoused by the "resident liberal."

you know what blasphemy is, denying Christ grace in exchange for fleshly works of righteousness

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

"Having neighbors over for a meal, then a drink and a cigar afterwards and giving them the Gospel is doing the Lord's work."

Not so.  Light hath no fellowship with darkness.  You cannot be partakers of the Lord's table and drink from the devils cup.
You should study  1 Cor 13, and the Sermon On The Mount, by your comment, I feel bad for your neighbors. You know them, your supposed to love them

1 Peter 4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries:

 

Nobody gets drunk, nobody is partying into the wee hours of the mourning. But as I mentioned earlier, its telling of you that when somebody says liberty, your mind goes to sin


"Banquetings" is speaking of social drinking. No it doesn't, you Lie!!! Strongs 4224 drinking, carousing(partying,drink plentiful amounts of alcohol and enjoy oneself with others in a noisy, lively way) either your ignorant or out right lying,either way,it is sad for you!.  And God's Word reveals it to be something that should be in our past, nor our present lives.

Christians should not be advocating drinking alcohol.to tell sinners it's a blessing from God? why not?  Funny how they that do always try to justify it by saying they are giving the Gospel to that person. 

Actually, it is sad.   We are in the world, yet not of the world.  We are not to act like the world to win the world.
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

You keep saying that Jesus drank wine - the Bible is plain that he did.
What is not plain is whether or not it was alcoholic wine.the word onios, same word in Ephesians that we are not to get drunk on

The context in certain places indicates that wine in the Bible was not always alcoholic.you knew it was coming, chapter and verse?
Therefore to see the word wine doesn't automatically mean Jesus drank alcohol. unless your twisting Scripture to show it says something it doesnt

In fact, the context often indicates that the wine He drank was not alcohol, and other verses already shown show that to be a king (for instance) would make it very unlikely that he drank alcohol.Remember in Luke? Son of Man comes eating and drinking? Jesus was making the comparison between him and John the Baptist

The weight of evidence would suggest that while wine can be alcoholic in the Bible, it is not always, and the best assumption is that because of His various offices Jesus drank no alcohol.Yes He did, To say otherwise you make a liar out of Him

Edited by Jeffrey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I'll be a little more blunt (as I've been told I usually am).

For a "christian" to have a drink and a smoke with a lost person hurts our testimony,Your testimony is Jesus Christ, His death, burial and resurrection. If you think that people are looking at you and thinking, "What a Godly guy, i want to be just like you" your the one who is drunk and shows the lost that we are no different than they are, whereas we are supposed to be separate, supposed to be different. To engage in worldly sins and do the things that the lost do just shows the world that we are hypocritical in our actions when we are "professing" that we are saved and are "supposedly" different. You still live in this world, you still have sin in your heart, and you need to be repenting daily. What makes you think your better than the average unsaved person??

Same goes for attending rock concerts, getting tattoos, and so on. Can you show me where we can't do those things?

A truly saved, separated Bible-believing Christian would strive NOT to be (and act) like the world.But too many times we fall short do we?? You cant tell the IFB from the KKK

Edited by Jeffrey

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I would agree that it fits under the topic.  Falling to the world covers a multitude of things. :runforhills:  Thanks, candle!  :clap:

 

I am curious, though, how I got quoted saying something I didn't say... :eek

I was replying to you and Mike replied to something I wrote and I thought I was replying to him and somehow things got crossed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I was replying to you and Mike replied to something I wrote and I thought I was replying to himk and somehow things got crossed


Ok.lol. Strange!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

"You should study  1 Cor 13, and the Sermon On The Mount, by your comment, I feel bad for your neighbors. You know them, your supposed to love them"

When you can produce the Scripture that says Jesus was enjoying a glass of alcohol and a cigar with those people He was preaching to on the Mount, you might have an argument.  When you can produce a Scripture that says the Corinthians were told by Paul to enjoy a glass of wine and a cigar, you might have an argument.  To date, all you have done is insert your own bias into two passages that speak nothing of drinking alcohol or smoking cigars.

 



 

"Nobody gets drunk, nobody is partying into the wee hours of the mourning. But as I mentioned earlier, its telling of you that when somebody says liberty, your mind goes to sin"

It doesn't matter if people are "not getting drunk and partying into the wee hours of the morning.  God's Word says not to look upon the wine when it is fermented.  It doesn't say don't look upon it after you have had a glass or two... it says don't look upon it when "IT" is fermented.

Also, God's people have been made kings and priests unto Him.  And His Word clearly says it is not for kings to drink. 


"No it doesn't, you Lie!!! Strongs 4224 drinking, carousing(partying,drink plentiful amounts of alcohol and enjoy oneself with others in a noisy, lively way) either your ignorant or out right lying,either way,it is sad for you!."

Albert Barnes Commentary:
Banquetings. The word here used (potoV) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament. It means properly drinking; an act of drinking; then a drinking bout; drinking together. The thing forbidden by it is an assembling together for the purpose of drinking. There is nothing in this word referring to eating, or to banqueting, as the term is now commonly employed. The idea in the passage is, that it is improper for Christians to meet together for the purpose of drinking--as wine, toasts, etc. The prohibition would apply to all those assemblages where this is understood to be the main object. It would forbid, therefore, an attendance on all those celebrations in which drinking toasts is understood to be an essential part of the festivities, and all those where hilarity and joyfulness are sought to be produced by the intoxicating bowl. Such are not proper places for Christians.

Actually, what Strongs says for banquetings is, "a drinking bout; a carousal."  This does not necessarily mean drinking too much wine.  Paul had already made mention of drinking too much wine when he said "excess of wine."  As Barnes rightly pointed out, this is speaking of social drinkiing; as in, 'having buddies over for wine and a cigar".



"to tell sinners it's a blessing from God? why not?"

Alcohol is not "a blessing from God.  It is created through decay and corruption.  God's Word says it has the power to deceive man.  If you believe it is a blessing from God, it is clear you are already deceived..



 

LindaR and 1John2:15-17 like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I gotta ask Jeff, are you dancing to the Piper's tune?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now