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Christians That Are Falling Easy Into This World Traps...


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#41 candlelight

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:13 AM

Okay.  That's fine.  If you believe it fits, no problem.  Thanks Ukelelemike.  



#42 HappyChristian

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:39 AM

I would agree that it fits under the topic.  Falling to the world covers a multitude of things. :runforhills:  Thanks, candle!  :clap:

 

I am curious, though, how I got quoted saying something I didn't say... :eek



#43 candlelight

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:47 AM

I would agree that it fits under the topic.  Falling to the world covers a multitude of things. :runforhills:  Thanks, candle!  :clap:

 

I am curious, thought, how I got quoted saying something I didn't say... :eek

 

Okay, HC.  I haven't been following this thread b/c it wasn't clear to me what the OP was asking.  It was very vague.  I believe  DaveW gave a great definition of "Christian Liberty" though.

I just remember the marijuana thread and didn't want to get in trouble for talking about alcohol, again.  I am really trying to be on my best behavior b/c when I joined OB again I wasn't.  :)

Should I move my post from the IFB forum on alcohol over here?  It pertains to what Jeffrey is saying.



#44 HappyChristian

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:49 AM

Okay, HC.  I haven't been following this thread b/c it wasn't clear to me what the OP was asking.  It was very vague.  I believe  DaveW gave a great definition of "Christian Liberty" though.  Me, too!

I just remember the marijuana thread and didn't want to get in trouble for talking about alcohol, again.  I am really trying to be on my best behavior b/c when I joined OB again I wasn't.   :)  

Should I move my post from the IFB forum on alcohol over here?  It pertains to what Jeffrey is saying.

If you want to move it, that's fine.



#45 candlelight

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:59 AM

*Repost*  for Jeffrey.  This is something I wrote in the marijuana thread.
 

 
John 2:1-10

King James Version (KJV)

 
And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
And both Jesus was called, and his disciples, to the marriage.
And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do it.
And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare it.
When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew;) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: but thou hast kept the good wine until now.
  
The "good wine" was not alcoholic wine.  It was PURE grape juice.  I am shocked when I hear Christians talk about Jesus drinking alcoholic wine.  How could the sinless Son of God miraculously fabricate a wine which His own Holy word denounced as "the poison of the serpent." Proverbs 23-32.  Lets flip the coin and show the other side.  Some Christians will use every gimmick of interpretation and every technical loophole. Christ's first miracle is one of the most misunderstood  passages in the Bible.  But there is no foundation in scripture to back the assumption that Jesus was an alcoholic.  In the other thread, it was mentioned that Jesus' enemies said that.  I am certainly not going to support his enemies.  Our Saviour is sinless. If Jesus made and drank alcoholic wine, let's all do it.  Lets let our children go on their merry way towards alcoholism.  

Not all wine is alcoholic any more than all cider is hard.  It is inconceivable to me that our blessed Lord Jesus Christ would ever produce an intoxicant, or that He used fermented wine at Passover.  The Jews (at that time) did not drink alcohol during Passover.  It was forbidden.  He used this wine at Passover as the symbol of His own shed blood.

Fermented wine is decayed wine.  Can that be the symbol of new life in the Spirit?  His holy flesh never saw decay or corruption.  The cup of the Lord and the cup of the devil are two entirely different things.  Jesus also miraculously created bread to feed the five thousand, but it was not moldy bread.  Now did he create rotten fish?  Jesus Christ is the creator of life, not death.

Sorry the font is so big.  I copied and pasted this, and got large print for some reason.


#46 musician4god1611

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:01 AM

 

 

we can drink and smoke now if we want, and tats for that matter, we are no longer under the law, but Fundamentalist wishes we were

Jeffrey, if we are not under the law then why do you keep quoting Deuteronomy 14:26? You can't claim the promises of the law if you refuse to do the works of the law. Furthermore, Jesus explicitly said that he had not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).



#47 Bro K

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:24 AM

BY the way, even Charles Spurgeon, who smoked cigars mostly because of health issues, gave them up because he began to be associated with them by cigar companies and saw it would hurt the cause of Christ. He wanted to be known as a preacher of righteousness, not a smoker of such and such brand stogies.

Not just any cigars they were Frenchies(from France). First time I heard he smoked them for medical purposes. Have any info on how long he smoked them after he was saved?

Did he quit because he looked upon it as Sin; or because they were using his name to promote their product??



#48 candlelight

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:33 AM

I remember reading that Spurgeon was walking through town.  He saw a sign in a window that said something to the effect that this is the brand that Spurgeon smokes.  I read at that moment he was convicted and stopped.

 

Ukelelemike can clarify that.



#49 HappyChristian

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 11:58 AM

That's what I heard, too, candle. That he was convicted that he would be remembered for what brand he smoked, and didn't want that to be his influence - he wanted people to think of Christ, instead.  Testimony and influence.



#50 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:00 PM

From what I remember, it was a billboard that CH Spurgeon saw that was selling the brand of cigar that Spurgeon smoked.



#51 candlelight

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:03 PM

Yeah, it was SFIC.  Now I remember.



#52 HappyChristian

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:07 PM

Hmmm - I read it was a sign in a store. Ah, well. Fact remains he was convicted and quit.  :clapping:



#53 Ukulelemike

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:08 PM

Not just any cigars they were Frenchies(from France). First time I heard he smoked them for medical purposes. Have any info on how long he smoked them after he was saved?

Did he quit because he looked upon it as Sin; or because they were using his name to promote their product??

I found this from a letter Spurgeon wronte to a newspaper on the subject:

 "When I have found intense pain relieved, a weary brain soothed, and calm, refreshing sleep obtained by a cigar, I have felt grateful to God, and have blessed His name; this is what I meant, and by no means did I use sacred words triflingly."

 

So it would appear that thee was some issue he dealt with that the tobacco gave some ease to, though what it was I don't know.

 

I have heard that tobbacco use can ease the effects of Parkinson's, though I am not sure of the veracity of it. One thing Spurgeon did do was to show that he was not under the power of it-he willingly gave it up for a long time on the challenge of a pipe smoker, who within a week was back on his pipe, while Spurgeon went months.



#54 candlelight

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:15 PM

Hmmm - I read it was a sign in a store. Ah, well. Fact remains he was convicted and quit.  :clapping:

 

I think it was a huge sign, like a billboard.  I could be wrong, though.  It's been awhile since I read the story.

Amen for Spurgeon.   :clap:



#55 Galations 2:20

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 01:59 PM

Jeffery, not arguing about it-its something each believer must decide on their own, though the advice and teaching of the word can certainly be a help.

 

 

However, my point was not just that-its the entire way of understanding Christian liberty, that it doesn't mean we do as we please, it means that even IN our liberties, we must be willing to consider where we must place our own boundaires on those liberties, and usually, those boundaires are from outside ourselves. Too often Christians are unwilling to do so.."Its MY liberty, MY freedom to do such and such". Great, but what about the God-given responsibilities we have to the glory of God and the edification of others and the expediencey of the gospel?  "Forget that! I'm gonna have a beer, cuz I have LIBERTY IN CHRIST!".

 

 

Every person (saved or unsaved) is pricked in their conscious and convicted of sin;  they either choose to be more Christ-like and flee the sin, suppress the truth, or be unaware of their sin because of a seared conscious.

 

Our liberty should not be a stumbling block for a brother or sister in Christ.  

 

1 Corinthians 10:31 Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God. 



#56 Ukulelemike

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:20 PM

I think it was a huge sign, like a billboard.  I could be wrong, though.  It's been awhile since I read the story.

Amen for Spurgeon.   :clap:

I have heard the story but not yet confirmed it by a reliable source.



#57 Jeffrey

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:11 PM

Jeffrey, if we are not under the law then why do you keep quoting Deuteronomy 14:26? You can't claim the promises of the law if you refuse to do the works of the law. Furthermore, Jesus explicitly said that he had not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it (Matthew 5:17).


I want to get to everyone's responses tonight, but I will do this one first,
God made it available to the Isrealites through the OT as a sign of blessing which carried through to the NT and till today. As evidence at the wedding in John's Gospel, mentions if it in Acts 2, and Corinthians,Timothy, Colossians.
I ask again if the Bible talks about grape juice, why in Timothy are elders not to be filled with much grape juice?
Why in Romans and Collosians does Paul tell you that let no man judge you for drinking grape juice? It just does not make spence to Scriptural content! I'm still checking, but I believe that there is no early church history of the teaching of grape juice before the Temperance Movement of the 1800's

#58 Ukulelemike

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:49 PM

I want to get to everyone's responses tonight, but I will do this one first,
God made it available to the Isrealites through the OT as a sign of blessing which carried through to the NT and till today. As evidence at the wedding in John's Gospel, mentions if it in Acts 2, and Corinthians,Timothy, Colossians.
I ask again if the Bible talks about grape juice, why in Timothy are elders not to be filled with much grape juice?
Why in Romans and Collosians does Paul tell you that let no man judge you for drinking grape juice? It just does not make spence to Scriptural content! I'm still checking, but I believe that there is no early church history of the teaching of grape juice before the Temperance Movement of the 1800's

Its a little something I like to call Context. The context will generally tell you which is which. If you can get drunk off of it, its alcoholic-if its a blessing, its not.

 

Actually, in the OT, there are diffefent words translated 'wine' and omemeans specifically the juice, unfermented, while the other may refer to either. No access to my dictionary right now so can't tell you which at the moment.



#59 Jeffrey

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:54 PM

Its a little something I like to call Context. The context will generally tell you which is which. If you can get drunk off of it, its alcoholic-if its a blessing, its not.
 
Actually, in the OT, there are diffefent words translated 'wine' and omemeans specifically the juice, unfermented, while the other may refer to either. No access to my dictionary right now so can't tell you which at the moment.


So what the wine and strong drink in Duet 14:26? Or do you contort Scripture to fit your argument?

#60 Jeffrey

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 05:21 PM

Mike, my last post was rude and disrespectful, you did not deserve that,, I humbly and publicly ask for your forgiveness.

Edited by Jeffrey, 06 February 2014 - 05:22 PM.





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