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Christians That Are Falling Easy Into This World Traps...


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#121 Jeffrey

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 08:10 AM

Is there any real point to this thread or is it stuck on replay?

 

The thread goes from "Jesus made alcoholic wine" to "Jesus did not make alcoholic wine" to "it's okay for Christians to drink alcoholic wine" to "it's not okay for Christians to drink alcoholic wine".

it is getting dizzy, this just proves everything I have come to learn about what Scripture really says and people who hold to teaching of men



#122 TheSword

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 09:50 AM

Depends, what is the occasion? in the fellowship hall? sure. we dont have an altar or platform

 

I don't suppose it really matters where in the church or for what occasion. By altar or platform I mean in a general sense where the preaching and worship service happens.  I generally have my to-go mug of coffee during the service and my wife usually brings her water bottle; would you say it's ok to bring a bottle of beer instead?

 

 

'Well Drunk" Strongs #3184  methyo= to be drunken

What does Scripture say? do you believe the Bible? or is that what your pastor taught you?

 

You have to be careful with some of the older Strongs #s because some are not coded correctly.  It's actually methusthōsi (μεθυσθῶσι) which is a verb rather than a noun. It is also passive, indicating the action was done to the subject (the wedding feast attendees) rather than the subject doing the action. Addtionally, it is in the subjunctive mood which indicates an action of possibility or probability. Combined with the preceding contingent adverb "when" (hotan, ὁταν, literally means "whenever") this pushes the mood more toward possibility than probability. Finally, it is in the aorist tense which, properly understood, means to communicate a snapshot in time.

 

So, when properly understood and exegeted, the verse should communicate "whenever people are made to be drunk, then bring out the bad wine" (presumably because it no longer matters). In context, what you have in John 2:9-10 is somewhat of a rebuke of the bridegroom by the governor of the feast for making the people drink the inferior wine first and keeping the good wine until later. In context, we see that the governor is upset that people have been made to be drunk because they were given the older fermented wine when they could have been drinking newer, non-fermented wine. When considered with Eph 5:18 ("be not drunk with wine....") and similar verses on drunkenness, this makes more sense than Jesus providing more and better alcohol to people already well-intoxicated. If you accept and interpretation that this passage speaks of Jesus creating alcoholic wine, then you must also accept and proclaim a Biblical contradiction.


Edited by TheSword, 08 February 2014 - 09:54 AM.


#123 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 08 February 2014 - 10:04 AM

Our Lord would not have given alcohol to a bunch of drunks. he came to seek and save that which is lost, not help them further down the road to destruction.

#124 swathdiver

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 01:46 PM

did you read my reply?

 

That's just it, you did not reply.  



#125 musician4god1611

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:21 PM

 

 


Solomon wrote it in Proverbs, not a thus saith the Lord,

 

2 Timothy 3:16 Says that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Last time I checked, Proverbs was Scripture. If Proverbs is Scripture and was given by inspiration of God then to say "Solomon wrote it in Proverbs, not a thus saith the Lord." is blasphemy. And last time I checked blasphemy is sin (even if drinking isn't).



#126 Ukulelemike

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Posted 10 February 2014 - 02:44 PM

Jeffery, I'd be interested in seeing the scripture reference that said Jesus drank wine on the Passover. KJV, of course.



#127 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:09 PM

You have to be careful with some of the older Strongs #s because some are not coded correctly.

You have to be careful with Strong's Period because he has placed Classical Greek definitions to Koine Greek words.  The reason is  because there is no Koine Greek Dictionary and the Koine Greek documents have many variants or meanings for the same Koine Greek word.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 14 February 2014 - 03:11 PM.


#128 Jeffrey

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:16 PM

2 Timothy 3:16 Says that all Scripture is given by inspiration of God. Last time I checked, Proverbs was Scripture. If Proverbs is Scripture and was given by inspiration of God then to say "Solomon wrote it in Proverbs, not a thus saith the Lord." is blasphemy. And last time I checked blasphemy is sin (even if drinking isn't).

Not to get into the subject we were discussing, because people can't conduct them selves in a Christ-like manner, I was trying to convey that you don't interpret certain books of the Bible the same with other books. Meaning, you don't interpret Psalms, like you would an epistle, you wouldn't interpret Revelation like you would a Gospel. They were different literature types. Hence we wouldn't develop a ministry strictly from Proverbs, Psalms or Daniel for example.
I hope I cleared up my point

Edited by Jeffrey, 14 February 2014 - 03:43 PM.


#129 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 03:39 PM

Not at all

#130 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 05:38 PM

Not to get into the subject we were discussing, because people can't conduct them selves in a Christ-like manner, I was trying to convey that you don't interpret certain books of the Bible the same with other books. Meaning, you don't interpret Psalms, like you would an epistle, you wouldn't interpret Revelation like you would a Gospel. They were different literature types. Hence we wouldn't develop a ministry strictly from Proverbs, Psalms or Daniel for example.
I hope I cleared up my point

All scripture is interpreted the same way "literal" however we are never commanded to interpret scripture we are commanded to study and to rightly divide scripture.  Interpretation is from one language to another and that is already done in the AV from the TR and other documents.

 

The study of English scripture is done differently depending on the literature type which consist of Poetry, Proverbs, Parables, Narratives, Epistles and Prophecy.  In these we will find different figures of speech like Hyperboles and Allegories.

 

Once you identify the literature type you go into asking "who, what, when, where, why, which and how" of the scriptures.

 

When you have completed your your study with the seven questions, you use what you found to bring out an application for every day life situation for yourself.

 

Then you put it together to form a teaching/preaching.

 

P.S. If you reinterpret the English scriptures then it becomes a private interpretation.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 15 February 2014 - 04:38 AM.


#131 Jeffrey

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Posted 14 February 2014 - 07:05 PM

All scripture is interpreted the same way "literal" however we are never commanded to interpret scripture we are commanded to study and to rightly divide scripture.  Interpretation is from one language to another and that is already done in the AV from the TR and other documents.
 
The study of English scripture is done differently depending on the literature type which consist of Poetry, Proverbs, Parables, Narratives, Epistles and Prophecy.  
 
Once you identify the literature type you go into asking "who, what, when, where, why, which and how" of the scriptures.
 
When you have completed your your study with the seven questions, you use what you found to bring out an application for every day life situation for yourself.
 
Then you put it together to form a teaching/preaching.
 
P.S. If you reinterpret the English scriptures then it becomes a private interpretation.

I think we are saying the same thing; but let me use Psalm 150 as an example
Praise God in his sanctuary:
praise him in the firmament of his power.
2 Praise him for his mighty acts:
praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet:
praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance:
praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals:
praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord.
Praise ye the Lord.
Is this a command to use these instruments and dance during worship?

#132 Daniel Rush

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 06:56 AM

Christians bow before the god of Disney. I pray Disney World is blown off the map.



#133 John81

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Posted 20 February 2014 - 08:01 AM

I agree Disney is a promoter of wickedness that even sucks in many Christians but since Disney World is near perpetually open I wouldn't want to see it blown off the map because of all the people there. It would be nice to see it shut down but that's highly unlikely.






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