Intoducing Me


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I am new to this site.  Have been exploring the topic of predestination.  Can we post links to other places that have helped us.  I found a place that explains the topic very well. 

swathdiver likes this

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I don't think that is advisable.  But the Moderators will assist you with that.

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Howdy!

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Welcome

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Welcome. General posts would go in "The Lounge" I think.

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Predestination is a Biblical doctrine, so there's no problem with discussing it. It's the Calvinist/Reformed distortion of it that's the problem.

I have some technical articles on it, but here's a good start:

http://faithfulmenofgod.blogspot.com/2007/11/what-is-biblical-predestination.html

LindaR, candlelight and EKSmith like this

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Welcome to OB, Seeker.  I would check the link that Dr. Ach posted above first.

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I am new to this site.  Have been exploring the topic of predestination.  Can we post links to other places that have helped us.  I found a place that explains the topic very well. 

 

Welcome, seeker! As this is a discussion forum, why don't you try discussing the topic here first? We've got rather a few wise people around that can give you some good Biblical perspectives on the issue.

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HEY! SEEKER!

 

Welcome aboard :)

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Predestination is a Biblical doctrine, so there's no problem with discussing it. It's the Calvinist/Reformed distortion of it that's the problem.

I have some technical articles on it, but here's a good start:

http://faithfulmenofgod.blogspot.com/2007/11/what-is-biblical-predestination.html

But it is not held by many who are IFB.

candlelight likes this

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Posted (edited) · Report post

I am new to this site.  Have been exploring the topic of predestination.  Can we post links to other places that have helped us.  I found a place that explains the topic very well. 

Predestination is fairly easy. The entire topic is in relation to who God is. His omniscience (knowing all things)  lets Him know the ending right from the very start. Therefore if we're saved at the end of it all then we were predestined from God's point of view because He knew it already.

 

BUT, He loved the whole world and gave His Son so that no one should have to perish.

 

No one goes to heaven just because they're "picked". We were all picked by God to be so precious that He would come down and die to make a way to Himself. But you have to choose Jesus to get there. That's why I like the KJV wording of John 3:16 when He says SHOULD not perish. It's not "will not" or "shall not". It's left open to the individual. The devils believe and tremble (James 2:19)

 

Oh, A BIG welcome to all the new people as well.

Edited by paid4

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Posted · Report post

I am new to this site.  Have been exploring the topic of predestination.  Can we post links to other places that have helped us.  I found a place that explains the topic very well. 

 

 

 

hi new to here and welcome to all

 

 

Howdy!  Why don't you folks introduce yourselves?  Tell us a little about you and share your testimony.

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In God's "master plan", those who get saved will experience progressive sanctification, conformity to the image of Christ and ultimately adoption and inheritance. Predestination is always spoken of in plural pronouns like "you", "we", "us", "them" etc. so it is always speaking about a group; never individuals. When "whosoever will"  believes on Jesus, he/she becomes a part of this group and therefore his/her end result will be conformity to the image of Christ and all the promised blessings that go with that.. God will receive glory because He "designed" the whole plan, and because He so richly deserves it. But.....He will share that glory with us, even though we don't deserve it.

 

The Devil, on the other hand, wants people to believe the lie that God's chief desire is "glory" at all costs, and that predestination means He predetermined certain ones to salvation and predetermined certain others to damnation, from before the foundation of the world, for some kind of "glory". This is false glory and a total perversion of what "predestination" is.

 

God dealt with the heart of Felix, but Felix put Him off. He begged "oh Jerusalem, Jerusalem" but they "would not", Can I say that God will receive far more glory, than the one of the Calvinistic model, when it is revealed that He was not exclusive and that He so freely and graciously offered salvation and the blessings of eternal life to every single person who has ever lived.  None will have any excuse.

Edited by heartstrings
Miss Daisy and swathdiver like this

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Posted · Report post

I am new to this site.  Have been exploring the topic of predestination.  Can we post links to other places that have helped us.  I found a place that explains the topic very well.


Hello, welcome, and good luck!  :nuts:

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Like 'Election'. Election in surely a biblical doctrine, but it must be understood correctly.

 

I liken it to an earthly election: A president is elected, but not against his will. An office is available, and he/she puts forth their desire to be elected to that office. Those with the authority choose then who will be elected.

 

Spiritually, we hear that a 'position' is available in the kingdom of God as on of His children, and desiring that, we put forth our desire, calling upon the Lord for salvation. The Lord elects who He will, which praise God is "Whosoever will". All who call are elected!

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Like 'Election'. Election in surely a biblical doctrine, but it must be understood correctly.

I liken it to an earthly election: A president is elected, but not against his will. An office is available, and he/she puts forth their desire to be elected to that office. Those with the authority choose then who will be elected.

Spiritually, we hear that a 'position' is available in the kingdom of God as on of His children, and desiring that, we put forth our desire, calling upon the Lord for salvation. The Lord elects who He will, which praise God is "Whosoever will". All who call are elected!

The traditional meaning of election would be that those under authority, elect the authority.

Anishinaabe

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Actually, according to Webster's 1828 dictionary (which is about as traditional as it gets), election is the act of choosing, esp. choosing one among others. The political sense we use it in nowadays is only one application among many, and shouldn't be used to define the term.

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My point is that in pretty much all cases the one elected is not elected, save that he has sought that election, not had it forced upon him. except maybe in the military but thats a different animal.

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Ah uh, but even the one elected into the.military could not have been elected had he never been born.

So it is with man. Man does not become elect until he is born from above.

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Ah uh, but even the one elected into the.military could not have been elected had he never been born.

So it is with man. Man does not become elect until he is born from above.

And the angels that chose to stay, rather than depart with Satan? Were they born again?
Or did they become the elect, when they made the choice?

1Ti 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.


Anishinaabe

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And the angels that chose to stay, rather than depart with Satan? Were they born again?
Or did they become the elect, when they made the choice?

1Ti 5:21
21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels, that thou OBserve these things without preferring one before another, doing nothing by partiality.


Anishinaabe

The elect angels may be speaking of specific angels placed into certain positions in working with Timothy or Paul, OR it may be speaking of angels as other preachers, as in the angels of the churches mentioned in Revelation 2&3, human leaders/messengers of the word of God.  It IS a bit OBscure who the 'elect angels' are Paul is referencing, something I have actually never thought about before.. Sorry, though I don't mean to change the subject here. 

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Israel is "elect", we are "the elect". There are also "elect angels", "the elect lady" and an "elect sister" . Even the Lord Jesus is "elect".

OBviously Jesus could not have been "chosen for salvation" or even "chosen" at all being He has always been God, the creator, the "beginning and the end". The best I can ascertain, at present, is that they all have one thing in common; an individual or group which is "elect" is set apart for a certain service. Israel, believers, angels, and even the Lord Jesus have a special purpose, jOB, or function. Israel's function or purpose included being the avenue through which God brought us Christ, the law, the Word of God, and as a means to display God's grace and promises to the whole world. Our purpose and function includes being witnesses in letting our light shine in this dark world and in proclaiming the name of Jesus. Jesus' purpose was to bring God to man and man to God. His purpose in dying on Calvary and rising fromt he dead is all finished but he still has the purpose and function of being our intercessor now. He has more jOBs to do in the future as He will return to take us home, will return in the second coming, will rule in the millennial Kingdom etc. In short, Jesus took on the role of a servant. Even the president of the US is intended to be "set apart for service" so he ,also, has a special jOB to do; not just to sit in the Whitehouse.

 

Whereas "predestinated" refers to what we are promised to RECEIVE from God, "elect" seems to have to do with what we are to DO for God. Both are prescribed to work exactly the way God designed them from the beginning but neither have anything to do with salvation.

Edited by heartstrings

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Posted · Report post

The elect angels may be speaking of specific angels placed into certain positions in working with Timothy or Paul, OR it may be speaking of angels as other preachers, as in the angels of the churches mentioned in Revelation 2&3, human leaders/messengers of the word of God. It IS a bit OBscure who the 'elect angels' are Paul is referencing, something I have actually never thought about before.. Sorry, though I don't mean to change the subject here.

Rev. 2 isn't calling human leaders "angels".
I believe this to be easily understood , from Rev. 1.

Rev 1:1
Revelation
Chapter 1
1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

An angel, a spirit being, a minister of God, a messenger, delivered to John, the human instrument, a message.

Rev 1:2
2 Who bare record of the word of God, and of the testimony of Jesus Christ, and of all things that he saw.

John bore record, or wrote the message down, and carried it, in material form, physically, so that humans could hear it. It then became part of our more sure word of prophecy

Anishinaabe

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Rev 1:4 4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia:Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; John here is writing a message , delivered by 7 angels, Spirits before God's throne. Rev 1:10 10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, John was made able to talk to the angels. .God showed him a mystery, which He revealed to him. Rev 1:20 20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches:and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. The mystery, revealed, was that these stars represented angels, not humans. These angels took the message of God to the churches to which they were sent, just like the angel who was assigned to John ,gave him a message. The mystery was stars in the hand of a figure, "like unto the Son of man". Revealed, it was angels, sent with messages to churches. Had God meant to show elders, he would have revealed the mystery as elders, like every other time that elders are mentioned in Rev. He already revealed it, Bro. Mike, to John the Beloved...they are his heavenly, spirit-being, messenger angels. There is no other revelation of this mystery. There is none needed. Not once in Scripture did God ever refer to men as "angels". Anishinaabe

Edited by prophet1

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