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So How Does A Person Get Saved?


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#1 Donillo

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 02:10 PM

I know a person who is IFB and his testimony is that he was a devout Catholic until invited to an IFB and was so impressed with how people in the church brought their bibles and knew where to turn when the pastor said turn in your bibles to....
That was it, I guess he said he was saved and is a Christian. No confessing to god his sins, no experience of being freed from his former life. He was always devout, so I guess he just found the "right" church. Did he become a new creature as the bible says?

#2 wretched

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 04:07 PM

If he cannot recall a single point in time where he was hearing or reading the Gospel (death, burial and resurrection of Jesus) preached, felt an undeniable conviction of sin, God's righteousness and judgment to come and at this point changed his entire outlook on God calling out to God to save him, then No, he is not born again. He is just one of many tares within IFB churches.

 

His story however is less common than what I think is the most common tare in IFB churches though.



#3 John81

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 06:06 PM

Wretched,

 

You have piqued my curiosity. Is there a "common tare" in IFB churches, or was your statement more general in nature?



#4 beameup

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 07:44 PM

There are saved people in the Catholic Church.  The Holy Spirit is free to work anywhere.  False teaching is prevalent even in so-called Baptist Churches.  Matter of fact, I'd say that 4th Century Catholic Replacement Theology (or remnants thereof) is becoming dominant even in Baptist Churches.


Edited by beameup, 05 April 2014 - 07:45 PM.


#5 wretched

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 08:52 PM

Wretched,

 

You have piqued my curiosity. Is there a "common tare" in IFB churches, or was your statement more general in nature?

 

I think the common tare are the 2nd generation members. Those who were converted as children, growing up in the church and never actually repented since their only knowledge of the Lord was from their parents.

I fear for these kids and cringe when I see parents encouraging their children to pray a prayer to be saved.

They look, act, talk just like the born again but never actually were. Just a theory



#6 Salyan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 09:55 PM

I hear what you're saying, but technically 'praying a prayer' is a perfectly good way of bring saved - so long as it's not the prayer you're depending in. And small children can repent as well as older ones. If they were converted as kids, they are and remain converted.

I know there are some who talk-the-talk without ever getting saved , and I assume it's those you're speaking of. But it's a good thing when children get saved young!

#7 wretched

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:28 PM

Consider this and I will leave it alone:

 

Jesus said we must have the faith of a child, Jesus said forbid not the children for of such is the Kingdom. I don't believe it is possible for a child to be born again so soon after water birth. I think they are safe not having their own opinions yet. It is when they turn from their parents and influence-rs opinions in their early teens and form their own that it is possible for them to repent.

 

I think we should absolutely sow the seeds and keep them in church of course. But I don't think we should push them to be "saved" when they have no true conviction of what they are doing. And as they grow continue to convince them they got saved when they were 5 or 8 or 10 or whatever when they reach their teens and are having doubts and then when they reach their 20s, etc.

 

Sow the seeds, when they are old they will not depart from it (not forget the seeds as they are watered). They will truly repent then. I don't have time to thoroughly explain my idea but there it is in a nutshell.

 

I know it is not what you hear in sunday school but it is a concern of mine.

 

Real quick, run an experiment in children's church when a child is confronted to be saved. Offer candy at the point of prayer instead and see what they decide.

 

You could have offered me a million dollars instead at the point where I got saved and I would have lit your money on fire. Think about it.



#8 Salyan

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Posted 05 April 2014 - 10:40 PM

Just remember that repentance is a change of mind, not some huge feeling or action. Children can definitely have that change of understanding. I agree that sometimes kids are pushed to be. 'Saved ' when they have no true understanding or desire - saw a bad invitation like that in a children's church once myself - not good! However, if a child is old enough to choose to sin and to understand and trust the gospel , why should he not be old enough to be saved?

#9 利百加 (Li Bai Jia)

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:22 AM

Wretched, I very much disagree. I was saved when I was four, almost five, years old. I didn't doubt my salvation until I was in Bible college and a pastor in chapel said basically the same thing you did. But they, and you, are wrong. It took me about a month to finally have assurance of my salvation, but that month was horrible. 

 

I remember my salvation experience. My mom was talking to one of my older sisters about salvation and I was just in the background playing with my toys, but I was listening. Suddenly, something she said just "clicked" with me. She had been talking about sin and punishments. Now, I then started to think about something I had done wrong. I had stolen some balloons from the store recently and was punished for it. At that moment, I put two and two together and realized what sin was and that I was a sinner and God was going to punish me, and that punishment was Hell. So then I began to listen to my mom more intently and I heard how Jesus had taken my punishment for me and if I repented of my sins and accepted Jesus in my heart, I would be saved. I wouldn't have to go to Hell. She went into more detail than what I've typed, but I remember it. My sister didn't get saved that day, but after she left the room I asked my mom if I could be saved. She of course said yes, but started all over, asking questions to  make sure I understood everything she said. I listened again, but all I could think about was getting saved before it was too late. I remember after she finished she asked if I wanted to be saved and I quickly said yes and got on my knees to pray. I firmly believe I got saved that day, and nobody is going to convince me otherwise. Most of my memories from before age six are fuzzy, but the memory of my salvation is crystal clear.

 

I do believe that when it comes to young children, great care should be taken in this matter. Each child grows and matures at different rates. But if they approach someone asking about salvation, their questions should be answered in such a way the child understands what is being said. No, they should not be pushed to make a decision, it's an eternal decision and they need to know how important it is. After giving them the plan of salvation, depending on the age of the child and whether you think they grasp the concept or not, ask if they want to go play and wait until tomorrow to be saved. If my mom had asked me that after giving me the plan I would've shouted "NO!" I was that scared of not getting the chance to be saved. If a child wants to wait, let them. If they don't want to wait, don't deter them. Nobody should be kept from Christ to wait until they're older, nor should Christ be shoved at someone who isn't ready or doesn't understand. 

 

:twocents:  :twocents:  :twocents:  :twocents:



#10 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:07 AM

If a child is old enough to understand what sin is, then that child is old enough to understand what repentance means and what Salvation is.

#11 prophet1

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 03:09 AM

With our children, I waited for them to ask me about being saved. I simply taught them the Gospel.

There has come a time in each of their lives, where they had great sorrow, a fear of Hell, a belief that Jesus died substitutionally, that He is the Creator, and a desire to be saved.

Anishinaabe



#12 John81

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 06:35 AM

While I do believe children can be saved, and I know some folks who were saved as children, Wretched does bring up a good point with regards to trying to "force" children into a quick profession rather than awaiting the timing and leading of the Holy Spirit. There seems to be a lot of people who thought they were saved as a child simply because they agreed to say a "sinners prayer". They were, at that point, focused upon the prayer, not upon actual biblical salvation.

 

Thankfully some of these do eventually come to realize they were never born again and do come to Christ later in life, but many never do. Some eventually drop away while others remain in the church still lost but clinging to "the prayer" they repeated as a child with the false hope that's going to get them into heaven.

 

Hopefully it doesn't happen in all churches, but I know of some where parents almost compete to see how young they can get their children to "repeat after me" so they can claim they are saved. Not only do parents compete in this way, but some actually put effort into being able to say they got their child "saved" younger than did this or that family.

 

We have to be careful not to rush ahead of the Holy Ghost in these matters. If the Holy Ghost has prepared a child's heart for being born again, it will happen. If the Holy Ghost has not yet done so with a child. pushing them into repeating a "prayer" will only serve to confuse and possibly even hinder the child from actually being born again.

 

Facebook is very telling of such things as one can look up the profiles of many young adults who "said a prayer" as a child, claimed to be saved, grew up in the church, but as soon as they got to college their true hearts show forth. Their profile pictures, friends, and other pictures show them engaged in all manner of unchristian practices.

 

When a child truly comes to Christ, that's a blessed event and much to be praised. When a child is rushed to "repeat a prayer" and then declared saved based upon that alone, there is potential for great danger at hand.



#13 Arbo

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:32 AM

However, if a child is old enough to choose to sin and to understand and trust the gospel , why should he not be old enough to be saved?

 

Yep. :thumb:


 



#14 利百加 (Li Bai Jia)

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 08:35 AM

John, on that point I do agree with Wretched. I probably should have quoted the part I completely disagreed with. I'll do that now:

 

 

Jesus said we must have the faith of a child, Jesus said forbid not the children for of such is the Kingdom. I don't believe it is possible for a child to be born again so soon after water birth. I think they are safe not having their own opinions yet. It is when they turn from their parents and influence-rs opinions in their early teens and form their own that it is possible for them to repent.

 

 

THAT is what I took issue with. Young children are perfectly capable of forming their own ideas and understanding the concepts of life, death, punishments/consequences, salvation, etc.... I do believe in the "age of accountability", but I don't think there is an actual "age" attached to it, it has to do with the maturity level of the child. 

 

The plan of salvation is very simple. Many people believe it's too simple, but God made it simple on purpose, it's accessible and understandable to everyone, man, woman, and child. To deny someone the plan of salvation based on their age is wrong. 

 

Now, I do agree with the other points made. To manipulate a child (or anyone else for that matter) into saying a prayer is wrong. Salvation is a personal experience, only that individual can make the choice, they should not be manipulated or pressured into that choice. Jesus never forced anyone to become a Christian, just like the rich young ruler, He let them walk away if they chose.


Edited by 利百加 (Li Bai Jia), 06 April 2014 - 08:40 AM.


#15 swathdiver

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 01:31 PM

I know a person who is IFB and his testimony is that he was a devout Catholic until invited to an IFB and was so impressed with how people in the church brought their bibles and knew where to turn when the pastor said turn in your bibles to....
That was it, I guess he said he was saved and is a Christian. No confessing to god his sins, no experience of being freed from his former life. He was always devout, so I guess he just found the "right" church. Did he become a new creature as the bible says?

 

Highly unlikely according to the information presented.  "I guess he said he was saved" is not even definite.  By your description, this fella just found a building with people in it he likes better than the old building and people in it.

 

When God saved me, I didn't understand or could not articulate it but I knew I was saved.  On June 13, 2007 right around 2:30 in the afternoon I was out on my porch balcony and I simply gave up, told the Lord I was done resisting and realized that I could no longer succeed on my own, that what I'd been doing and living was wrong and turned my life over to him.  There's your Acts 20:21.

 

I didn't understand until years later how His death on the cross saved me (seems so simple now), I didn't stop cursing like a sailor or viewing pornography right away and did become anti-abortion in an instant.  I went out and bought a bible and started reading it and immediately began attending church and soaking in all things christian, especially on television.  There's your Phil 4:2.  That's an NIV bible, Catholic church and Charles Stanley and the 700 Club.  Talk about piling error upon error!  I didn't know a single Christian and nobody witnessed to me.  Well there's more, but I reckon it's not unlike most folks here who later became Independent Baptists too.



#16 EKSmith

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 07:26 PM

With my six children I never pressured one to be saved, all six were raised in the church and a loving christian home,.today each one has been saved but not of my will, but of the lords will and the conviction of the Holly Spirit and Praising the Lord for answering our prayers is our joy    



#17 wretched

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Posted 06 April 2014 - 10:10 PM

Highly unlikely according to the information presented.  "I guess he said he was saved" is not even definite.  By your description, this fella just found a building with people in it he likes better than the old building and people in it.

 

When God saved me, I didn't understand or could not articulate it but I knew I was saved.  On June 13, 2007 right around 2:30 in the afternoon I was out on my porch balcony and I simply gave up, told the Lord I was done resisting and realized that I could no longer succeed on my own, that what I'd been doing and living was wrong and turned my life over to him.  There's your Acts 20:21.

 

I didn't understand until years later how His death on the cross saved me (seems so simple now), I didn't stop cursing like a sailor or viewing pornography right away and did become anti-abortion in an instant.  I went out and bought a bible and started reading it and immediately began attending church and soaking in all things christian, especially on television.  There's your Phil 4:2.  That's an NIV bible, Catholic church and Charles Stanley and the 700 Club.  Talk about piling error upon error!  I didn't know a single Christian and nobody witnessed to me.  Well there's more, but I reckon it's not unlike most folks here who later became Independent Baptists too.

 

Please rewind for just a moment friend. Is this your actual testimony? What you just described on june 13, 2007 is a resolution and not a new birth. Without the Gospel and conviction of the Spirit from hearing the

Gospel, there is no new birth period.

You mention nothing of the Gospel being preached to you, nothing of seeds sown in the past, nothing of previous witnesses, relatives, anyone?

Was there ever a time after this that you answered the Spirit's call by the Gospel? I am not second guessing or challenging you but this is important my friend.

If you were just summarizing quickly and there is more leading up to the event in 2007, then I apologize.



#18 ASongOfDegrees

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:14 AM

All that matters is who and what you are trusting in now to get you into heaven. It doesn't matter about some salvation experience in the past and whether you can remember all the details or not (I can't). What matters is who you are trusting at this precise moment. 

 

It doesn't matter about a prayer, conviction, feeling of guilt or being lost, or memory of a specific time and place, etc, etc. If you are NOW trusting in the Lord Jesus Christ and his precious blood ONLY then you are in.



#19 Donillo

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 04:50 AM

No consensus here on how one is saved and all say the bible says this and that. God uses different means but all through Christ. But there has to be knowledge of the new birth, a point where a person has been born again. If we love God then we love others. You can't make the bible tell you that you are saved, for it is something that the Holy spirit does In your heart.

#20 swathdiver

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Posted 07 April 2014 - 01:14 PM

Please rewind for just a moment friend. Is this your actual testimony? What you just described on june 13, 2007 is a resolution and not a new birth. Without the Gospel and conviction of the Spirit from hearing the

Gospel, there is no new birth period.

You mention nothing of the Gospel being preached to you, nothing of seeds sown in the past, nothing of previous witnesses, relatives, anyone?

Was there ever a time after this that you answered the Spirit's call by the Gospel? I am not second guessing or challenging you but this is important my friend.

If you were just summarizing quickly and there is more leading up to the event in 2007, then I apologize.

 

No, on that day I made repentance toward God and put my faith in Jesus Christ.

 

There is more, some time earlier my wife had given to me the book, The Case for Christ, I read it to disprove once and for all God and the bible.  I didn't win and thank heavens for that!

 

My only memory of someone witnessing to me (the exact conversation is lost, don't even know if it was biblical) was at the BEQ lounge at Glenview Naval Air Station in the summer of 1986.  That night a former sailor and wanderer told me he traveled the country going wherever the Lord needed him to go.  He talked to me about the Lord but I soon changed the topic.  I was the chief mocker of all things God in my family, though while in uniform I faked it.  Used to make sport out of running those anti-abortion people off the sidewalks with my muscle car; it's a miracle that God chose to forgive all that I had done against him and still keeps my name in the book despite all the wrongs I continue to do.  Were there others?  I cannot remember, there were certainly some I never gave a second's worth of my time to try though.  

 

Just as the savage in the jungle is responsible to God, my salvation was similar.






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