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#1 John81

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:15 AM

Looking at the news it seems America is so far gone.

 

The Muslim Brotherhood is working to form a political party in America with the intent of turning Muslims in America into a voting bloc they can use to gain control in heavy Muslim areas and increase Islamic influence across the land.

 

The BLM has a ranch family surrounded with something like 200 agents, helicopters, armored vehicles, just about everything but tanks (so far), and have confiscated their cattle and arrested a son for taking pictures of the BLM in action.

 

A Muslim group, CAIR (or however they organize the letters) is successfully pressuring universities into not showing a film depicting the true, and horrible, treatment of women by Muslims. This is only the tip of their assaults, as they intimidate others across America to bow to their demands.

 

Then there are the "simple" crimes across the land; a white truck driver accidently hits a black youth who is playing chicken in the streets, gets out to help the child and a mob of older black teens nearly beat him to death...a 16 year old student runs through his school stabbing and slashing about two dozen people...gang wars in most cities..."flash mobs" looting stores...another shooting at Fort Hood...



#2 candlelight

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 07:45 AM

The USA is going down.  And, when America goes down, so does the rest of the world.

I simply don't understand posts on OB that say only the USA is being dealt with by God.  Every country, in the world, is under the wrath of God.  No nation is immune.  The Rapture is imminent.  After that, God will be dealing with the Jews and the nation of Israel.



#3 ASongOfDegrees

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:12 AM

There are a lot of good things happening too. I'm sure you see them in your own life. It seems really bad because the media only reports on the bad. That's why I think sometimes it's good to stop watching and reading the news for a while.



#4 John81

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:21 AM

If there are major good things happening, please share them.

 

No doubt, even in the midst of the worst of times there are good things going on, especially if we refer to the lives of individual Christians. Even so, that doesn't negate the overall downward spiral of the nation as a whole.

 

One point that's very telling with regards to the cultural arena is how quickly so many Republicans and so-called conservatives have jumped on board the pro-homosexual train, accepting the talking points of such being about "civil rights". Even many churches and professing Christians have jumped aboard that train.

 

Absolutely, the Lord is dealing with all nations and in the end all will see that His will is what stands.



#5 kindofblue1977

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:33 AM

There will always be good and bad in every era.  America is neither better or worse than it is 50 or 100 or 200 years ago.  It is merely different.  

 

After the revolution, the US butchered Native Americans and ran them off of their native hunting grounds.  Slavery persisted where men and women and children were taken from their homes in Africa and sold into slavery.  After the Civil War, segregation and racism were rampant.  Lynchings were regular events. Women were not allowed to vote.  There were also many great things happening during these times.

 

Many things have change for good.  Today we have other challenges and terrible things happening, yet at the same time there is much good. Today we must fight terrorism.  Stray kids are killing other kids in schools.  Yet there are many great things happening.  Many kids are taking a strong interest in helping others through mission trips.  Organizations are working to reduce world hunger and bring clean water to regions who have no source of clean water.  

 

All that to say, there is good and bad in every generation.  To say America is worse than it used to be, I don't see how with its history of killing Native Americans and slavery and segregation.  We have come a long way.  In other ways, we have much work to do, but I am encouraged about the future.



#6 John81

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 08:44 AM

First off, the American Indians weren't "native", but that hardly matters in the scheme of things.

 

The core of America has changed for the worse, just as all nations do. The original limited federal government has grown into a nearly all powerful giant that runs roughshod over citizens and States alike. The dominate Christian culture has given way to not only secular humanism, but to anything but Christianity. The American first policies of earlier America have given way to globalism which is wreaking havoc both internally and with regards to foreign affairs. While America was recently the largest lender nation, today she is the largest debtor nation and going further and further into debt to the point we are nearing where every debt payment will only touch interest, not principle.

 

No nation is without sin, even at it's best ancient Israel was far from perfect. Yet overall, both American and Israel have been better nations.

 

America is on the road to destruction, as so many before her have travelled the same road.



#7 HappyChristian

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:18 AM

heh - I just posted a link in another thread to an article by Allen West about the B'hood's possibility of a new party.  There's been a Communist party for years here, and it had gained traction years ago (remember Angela Davis, anyone?).  This, though, is a bit more disturbing because the MSM has done what it can to present Islam as good.  It attracts people in ways that Communism hasn't.  So it could be a big problem coming up.  But it could be that people are waking up, too.  

 

Yes, America is on the road to destruction.  It has been since its inception.  Because we all know how things are going to end.  That doesn't mean we shouldn't still be hopeful that things can be righted.  If Jesus doesn't come for another 100 years, I certainly don't want my grandchildren and great grandchildren growing up under the Muslim Brotherhood.  And so, rather than just wring my hands or shrug my shoulders and say it's gonna happen because of prophecy, I will do what I can about it.  Even if it's not that much in the grand scheme of things.



#8 Salyan

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:37 AM

 

 

The USA is going down.  And, when America goes down, so does the rest of the world.

 


Um, sorry, but the fate of the world does not rest on America's shoulders. Before the US was built Great Britain was a great nation that controlled the world and sent out missionaries. The world did not end when Britain declined. It won't end just for America either. The only country I can think of that would be significantly impacted is Canada (unfortunately), as a result of our leaders' poor decisions to rely on the US for the processing of our raw resources, and possibly as a result of our having those resources.

 

I appreciate the historic position of the States, and am glad to have them as a neighbor (rather than, say, Iran), but... yeah.



#9 candlelight

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 09:39 AM

 

The USA is going down.  And, when America goes down, so does the rest of the world.

 

Salyan?



#10 Arbo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 10:29 AM

First off, the American Indians weren't "native", but that hardly matters in the scheme of things.

 

 

 

My understanding is that the word native means "indigenous".  Please explain.



#11 kindofblue1977

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:26 AM

I'm confused by that as well.  Europeans came over from Europe to find tribes populating the New World. They were mistakenly dubbed "Indians" because they thought they had landed in India.  They were wrong.  The New World was populated by many different tribes and "nations."  They were, and are lumped into one big category as "Indians."  That term was inaccurate.  Native Americans seem to describe them as a whole better, Though the Americas was a term that Europe used for the New World, I believe. 

 

To be precise, you would have to say the Cherokee, Quapaw, Navajo, Aztecs, etc.  etc. etc.  There were hundreds of them.  We dubbed then "Native Americans" as they lived here prior to the Europeans. 

 

The only reason the US is here today is because the Europeans had guns and the Indians did not.  And because the Europeans were larger in number. After the Revolution, the US systematically expanded westward, and where that clashed with the Indian tribes, they systematically slaughtered them, and then forcibly made them agree to live on a "reservation."  The history is quite terrible when you read about it.   It is what it is today, but one cannot deny that the US committed a terrible sin against them.  Some will try to argue the Indians were salvages, but they were often times merely trying to defend their hunting territory and homes.  They did not see land as something that could be individually owned, as Europeans and later Americans did.  They saw it as a common resource to be used. Some tribes followed the buffalo, having a symbiotic relationship with them, and managed very well.  Others migrated with the weather.

 

At any rate, there is no undoing history, but terrible things happened in the US past.  This was done in the name of "Manifest Destiny" and the belief that God desired the US to occupy the entire continent from Atlantic to Pacific.  And it was accomplished, often crushing the native American tribes that dared get in the way or try to defend their hunting grounds. 

 

And slavery and segregation and systematically oppressing groups of people were terrible sins of our nation, for which we are still paying the price today through high poverty rates among African-Americans. 

 

All that to say, to say the US was better in past years, to me, seems to ignore history.  I do not dispute that there are some great challenges today.  But we also have great things happening today. Our challenges today are merely different than they were in the past.  Our sins today look different, but are still there.  The good things occurring are there as well.  Our generation or time in which we live is not unique, it merely looks different and the challenges are different.  The underlying problem, being a battle of good vs. evil, remains the same.



#12 HappyChristian

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 11:52 AM

I think the idea is that those who were called Indians were not originally from here - as was no-one, actually, if you go back to the fact that people were all living in one place in the world at one time. I think calling them Native Americans is kinda silly, really. It harks to political correctness.  

 

They were native in the sense that they were born here. Just as I was (and I have Indian blood in me as well, so I'm covered on that front, too.  :icon_smile: )

 

Yes, the American government did do wrong by them. (But before we cry too hard, let's remember they were called "savages" for a reason- not just because they were defending their land.  They killed each other long before the wicked white man came.)  But many of the tribes are getting their revenge - casinos built on reservation land bring in a lot of non-Indian people . Not just for gambling,either (their steak dinners are quite reasonably priced, I've been told). 

 

I don't agree that guns are the only reason Europeans were victor. I do believe that God brought them over here. No, not in the Manifest Destiny idea that the Puritans believed (a new Israel), nor the one that KOB mentioned (stretching from coast to coast). Too much of history shows that God was working. Oh, yes, man did wrong things all along. But God was at work, too. 

 

Yes, slavery was wrong. But, no, the poverty currently prevalent amongst blacks is not related to that. It is due to socialist principles that pervade so many of our inner cities.  There are way too many blacks who have become successful to blame poverty on slavery.  But it's sure easier to do so than it is to teach them to work and expect it from them (anyone, really, not just black people).

 

Totally agree that the underlying problem is good vs evil. Sadly, though, sin is taking a stronghold on America as more and more Christians excuse this sin and justify that one...It's no wonder that Jesus asked if He'd find faith on the earth when He returned... :(



#13 heartstrings

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:42 PM

One big reason the "Indians" couldn't drive out the Europeans is because they were divided into too many triibes, factions and language groups. Many were constantly raiding and warring amongst themselves too. Some of the tribes, like those of the Pacific Northwest, practiced slavery long before the "Antebellum Southerners" did. The Incas were the "Romans" of the New World and conquered a vast empire but they also practiced human sacrifice.. . Aztecs conquered other people groups for the purpose of using them in their wicked human sacrifices. They even sacrificed little children. I just don;t think God will let a society continue forever when it does things like that. But, wait, America has sacrificed millions of babies on the altars of selfishness and convenience.



#14 Ukulelemike

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 12:43 PM

in fact, its my understanding that the first slave owner in America was a black man. http://topconservati...as-a-black-man/

As well, even by 1860, there were some 3,000 black slaves held by black families.

 

Slavery is hardly the 'black and white' issue it is often portrayed to be.



#15 Arbo

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 03:53 PM

 

Um, sorry, but the fate of the world does not rest on America's shoulders. 

 

 

But Americans like to think so...  :nuts:

 

Side topic:  I heard that Canada is America's largest national park. :biggrin:



#16 candlelight

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:18 PM

 

Um, sorry, but the fate of the world does not rest on America's shoulders. Before the US was built Great Britain was a great nation that controlled the world and sent out missionaries. The world did not end when Britain declined. It won't end just for America either. The only country I can think of that would be significantly impacted is Canada (unfortunately), as a result of our leaders' poor decisions to rely on the US for the processing of our raw resources, and possibly as a result of our having those resources.

 

I appreciate the historic position of the States, and am glad to have them as a neighbor (rather than, say, Iran), but... yeah.

 

 As the Rapture of the saints approches, God will set up a 10 division empire.  Canada, the USA and Mexico will be called "The North American Union."  As of 5 years ago, the NAU has been found on meat products in the USA.  The government has been preparing since the days of George W. Bush.  All countries, in the world, will be set up by God for the Tribulation.  That day is vast approaching, and as America turns toward total apostasy, turning their backs on Israel, the world will go straight in to the End of Days.  The Tribulation, Great Tribulation and Armageddon are next.  Thankfully, all born again Christians will be gone for that horrific time.


Edited by candlelight, 10 April 2014 - 04:19 PM.


#17 HappyChristian

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:19 PM

Well, considering the $$ America sends to other countries, yeah. Other countries besides Canada would be impacted by America's destruction. *shrugs* The world might not rest on her shoulders, but there are other countries who do depend on her.  She supports many other countries better than she does her own... :eye:



#18 candlelight

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:22 PM

Well, considering the $$ America sends to other countries, yeah. Other countries besides Canada would be impacted by America's destruction. *shrugs* The world might not rest on her shoulders, but there are other countries who do depend on her.  She supports many other countries better than she does her own... :eye:

Please see my post above, HC.  It is eschatology made simple.  I have been studying it for 15 years.



#19 HappyChristian

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:30 PM

Yes, the NAU has been in the works, but actually since the 19th century.  Several different ideas were passed around about it.  NAFTA was the most successful tool to bring it about.

 

I don't know exactly what God has in mind or what He will allow (it's all actually conjecture except what we read specifically in scripture).  The 10 divisions is very plausible because of the 10 horns mentioned.



#20 ASongOfDegrees

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Posted 10 April 2014 - 04:38 PM

If there are major good things happening, please share them.

 

 

There was a preacher on the UVA campus preaching today for the students to repent and get saved and nobody was allowed to stop him.  In early America gospel preachers were more oppressed than they are now.

 

I think we are taking too many things for granted. On the most part we can still worship and serve God in this country without worrying about being beheaded. That's a major thing.


Edited by ASongOfDegrees, 10 April 2014 - 04:42 PM.





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