Jose, Dahmar, Muhammed, Abu, And Saleh

29 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Several months ago, I posted an ad on Craigslist, hoping to market some of my sheep to Mexicans. http://panamacity.craigslist.org/grd/4355811009.html

 

A Mexican guy did call but he is a Muslim convert. Jose came out to the farm and brought Dahmar, a Turkish guy, with him. Dahmar chose two Barbado rams, and wanted to kill them and process them on the farm. I agreed. That was back in OctOBer I think. Anyway, Jose and Dahmar came back two weeks ago and bought 4 more. Now I have more Muslim guys calling and emailing. "Muhammed", a really nice guy from Yemen, came out to the farm to look at the sheep and said he would be back, "Abu" said he would be coming to check them out and "Saleh" is coming Saturday to buy 5 rams. If this keeps up, we won't have to take any to the auction and pay those selling fees. 

 

I've learned a few things so far. They usually want intact males. Dahmar wanted to know where the sun was as it was overcast the first time he came so I showed him where east was. He must have done some kind of ritual or prayer but, as I worked outside, I didn't watch them other than a quick glance once in awhile. When I loaned Dahmar the butchering rack I use for hanging deer, he wanted to know had it been used for pigs. I told him, no, just deer. He was OK with that. Just like in the Old Testament, pigs are considered unclean. Muhammed told me that they slaughter two rams when a male child is born and one for a female. I think something like that was done in the OT law wasn't it? He also said that people from his country of Yemen, and in Saudi Arabia, prefer goats, but sheep are preferred in countries like Egypt and Syria. Either way, both are "clean" animals. When I came back to check on Dahmar, I found that he had moved my donkey out of the paddock they were in, into a small gathering pen. I had heard that no other animals were supposed to 'watch' the killing. It was either that or "Wilbur" was pestering him while he worked. Knowing Wilbur, I would have moved him too. :)

 

Dahmar asked me why we have so many churches in my area because, where he was from, an area only had one mosque. He also wanted to know if our churches had "teaching". I said that we have Sunday School on Sundays, Bible study on Sunday nights. I also told him that I had three years of Bible college. That was not meant to 'brag' but merely to let him know that some of us "infidels" study our 'religion'. Maybe Dahmar will ask more. He seemed curious for some reason.

Edited by heartstrings
swathdiver likes this

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Posted

We have muslims out here, but none have come to buy goats. Only one fellow who was Sihk, bought one, a big wether. More mexicans and whites seem interested here.

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Posted

We have muslims out here, but none have come to buy goats. Only one fellow who was Sihk, bought one, a big wether. More mexicans and whites seem interested here.

I hope it made him feel better.......  :biggrin:

Salyan likes this

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Posted

Sounds like pagan rituals are being permitted on your property.

Not sure that is a good thing.

ASongOfDegrees likes this

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Posted

You have a good point there and I'm open to any Biblical advice you could give there.. Thus far I have looked at it strictly as a business transaction. I slaughter deer on my property; they slaughter sheep and do a little prayer to "Allah". I have already refused to slaughter sheep for one of them who asked and that is the way it will stay.

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Posted

Wayne,

If it were me, I would not allow the slaughter on the property. Allowing it sends them the message that you are OK with sacrifices to their pagan deity. I see in the OlD testament pagan groves and altars being torn down, and people destroyed for worshiping false gods.

Pray about it, Bro. Which is more important to God and your faithfulness to Him.

ASongOfDegrees likes this

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Posted

The fact that they are looking for intact sheep tells me this is a pagan ritual they are performing.

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Posted

Maybe you can get a couple of those coins with the gospel on them and have your sheep eat it.  They may see it as a sign from God when they butcher it!

Miss Daisy, Bro K, Salyan and 1 other like this

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Posted

The fact that they are looking for intact sheep tells me this is a pagan ritual they are performing.

I don't know about any pagan ritual, I've been told that they EAT certain male organs.  :sick:

 

I did look in their direction quite a few times as I'm leery of people I don't know on my property; I didn't see them doing any dancing, shaking rattles, or any other crazy stuff. And if they prayed toward Mecca, it must have been a quick one. :) All I saw was skinning and cutting up meat.

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Posted

Wayne,

If it were me, I would not allow the slaughter on the property. Allowing it sends them the message that you are OK with sacrifices to their pagan deity. I see in the OlD testament pagan groves and altars being torn down, and people destroyed for worshiping false gods.

Pray about it, Bro. Which is more important to God and your faithfulness to Him.

Thank you, I am. If God wants me to be a witness, I want that. But if He isn't pleased with it, I certainly don;t want that.

swathdiver likes this

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Posted

Sounds like pagan rituals are being permitted on your property.

Not sure that is a good thing.

 

Heartstrings-  I know that you and I do not agree about the dog-as-pet thing (truth be told, I do tweak you at times for fun:)), but I still consider you a brother in Christ.  Having said that, I have to agree with SFIC.  I'd ask you to be careful.  Consider the spiritual implications to your, your family, and even your home.  Will Our Lord look kindly on this?

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Posted

FWIW, I don't do any butchering for anyone on my property, except for myself, but mostly because I don't need the FDA looking my direction. We know the government like to do stings on small farm owners, and I'm not putting myself at risk. I'll butcher my own, and sell goats on the hoof, but its up to them to find a place to butcher for themselves.

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Posted

While not familiar with Muhammaden customs, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to be doing some ritual alone, without other Muhammadens around.  

 

Sounds to me like at least one of them did a quick pagan prayer to Mecca and then they got busy butchering the sheep and that was that.  (Did they leave any suet from the liver around by chance?  Always looking for some for my muzzleloaders!)

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Posted

While not familiar with Muhammaden customs, it doesn't make a lot of sense for them to be doing some ritual alone, without other Muhammadens around.  

 

Sounds to me like at least one of them did a quick pagan prayer to Mecca and then they got busy butchering the sheep and that was that.  (Did they leave any suet from the liver around by chance?  Always looking for some for my muzzleloaders!)

Suet huh? Interesting.

Yes, they were basically just butchering some meat to eat. The first time, Dahmar left me the heads,  some of the guts, skin, legs etc. I think they eat some of the guts, like the liver etc.So I had to bury all that :(  Anyway, I told him the second time to take everything with him. He washed everything down and there was no trace when he left. Brought back the insect repellent I loaned him and left it on my porch.

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Yep, my mistake, it's the fat around the kidneys that is best but it's all pretty good stuff.  Great for soap, candles, bullet/patch lube, etc.  Once rendered, it can keep near forever if stored indoors in a cool, dry place.  I keep mine in jars in the house.  Once mixed with beeswax and olive oil, it still hasn't gone rancid and that batch was made over a year ago, it's kept in tin and sometimes sits out in the sun at the range for hours.

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Oh yeah, now I know what you're talking about. That's pretty neat. They also render "lanolin" out of the wool....which is used in hand creams. After handling several sheep, your hands will feel soft and greasy. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanolin

swathdiver likes this

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Posted

They will pray - it is part of their halal method.
Incidentally why one comes and brings another. The second is certified to perform halal slaughter.

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Posted

I suppose they would kill it as halal?

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Posted

They will pray - it is part of their halal method.
Incidentally why one comes and brings another. The second is certified to perform halal slaughter.

Around here, if a redneck kills a couple of deer; some even one, two or three other rednecks usually help. Being this guy was cleaning sheep his FOUR sheep until after 9pm, in the dark, with the mosguitos, I image he was glad to have a helper, less concerned with "halaling" and more concerned with getting it all cut up and heading to the house, which for him is about a 45 minute drive. :)

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Posted

Around here, if a redneck kills a couple of deer; some even one, two or three other rednecks usually help. Being this guy was cleaning sheep his FOUR sheep until after 9pm, in the dark, with the mosguitos, I image he was glad to have a helper, less concerned with "halaling" and more concerned with getting it all cut up and heading to the house, which for him is about a 45 minute drive. :)


If it is not slaughtered by a halal "certified" bloke, it can not be made halal later. It would be useless to them.

There is not a whole big ceremony as far as I am aware, but there is a particular method and it includes prayer in the process - not a stop and drop prayer, but a quick one liner as the throat is cut.

Of course they could be a bit casual about it all and let the details slip.......

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Posted

If it is not slaughtered by a halal "certified" bloke, it can not be made halal later. It would be useless to them.

There is not a whole big ceremony as far as I am aware, but there is a particular method and it includes prayer in the process - not a stop and drop prayer, but a quick one liner as the throat is cut.

Of course they could be a bit casual about it all and let the details slip.......

According to this the "bloke" only has to be a "mature Muslim" and he only needs to say three words.

2.  Slaughtering must be performed manually by a mature Muslim who fully understands the fundamentals and conditions relating to slaughtering according to the Islamic Law.

3.  At the time of slaughtering the name of Allah must be invoked by saying:

              Bismillah - Allahu Akber
           (I begin (the slaughtering) in the name of Allah - Allah is the Greatest)

 

http://www.tmfb.net/consumer-information/halal-slaughtering

 

And this says about the same....a "sane adult Muslim." and says he only has to say the three words as well.

http://halalcertification.ie/halal/islamic-method-of-slaughtering/

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Posted

Thanks for clearing that up - a one line prayer, and one trained in the proper method.

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Being this guy was cleaning sheep his FOUR sheep until after 9pm, in the dark, with the mosguitos, I image he was glad to have a helper, less concerned with "halaling" and more concerned with getting it all cut up and heading to the house, which for him is about a 45 minute drive. :)

 

That reminds me of the time I cleaned my cOBia after a dive.  Did a 3 tank dive in the morning, shot this thing on the 4th dive in the afternoon (he almost drowned me) and we didn't get back to the dock until sundown.  After the boat was put away for the night and everyone left (save for the monster mosquitos), cleaning could begin.  Sure was miserable cutting that monster up in the dark with skeeters chewing on me and buzzing in my ears for what seemed like hours.  Had a 30 minute drive to get home, then brined the meat, cleaned my gear and finally hit the rack.  Never again! 

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Posted

heartstrings I've lead Muslims to the Jesus and Muslims are not your everyday convert and it can be a long process in leading them to the Lord.( I spent weeks with my first convert)

The ones I have lead to Jesus have had a very hard time dealing with their families hating them for becoming a christian convert and this can put you in a very difficult and possible dangerous position.

It would be very wise to ask your pastor for his help before attempting to present the gospel to these men.                                                                     lift this up to the lord He'll take care of it

 

 

Praying for you brother

God bless    

heartstrings likes this

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