What Advice Do You Have Or Same-Sex Couples

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There's an awful lot of that on this forum lately which I find disheartening.

 

And I am sure some think that I am one of the guilty parties, which is laughable. :face:

 

(Not saying that you are one of them.)

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Posted · Report post

No, your name doesn't come to mind, but the day is early yet!  

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I can see not letting them join.  What policy should a church have as to their involvement if they choose to keep their family together?  Should their children be allowed to take part on children activities?  Should they, as a couple, be permitted to help out in the children's area?  Help prepare snacks for VBS?  Should they be allowed to volunteer in other roles in the church?  Or should they just be allowed to attend and not participate in anything? 

 

I am the head usher at my church and as such am responsible for noting every visitor (new and repeat), properly greeting them & providing a visitor package, noting where everyone sits and what their needs may be (i.e. provide Bible if they don’t have one), and maintaining the overall general welfare of the church and all in attendance. I have seen all kinds enter our church from all walks of society and I’m sure in all forms of sin. I also know of several instances when homosexuals have come to visit.

 

What I’m about to say I would have to say prOBably applies to any IFB church that is worth any salt whatsoever.

 

If an unsaved and/or overtly sinful individual(s) visits our church and they are not in the market for salvation and/or the true Biblical message…, they are not staying. We may get 1 or 2 repeat visits, but that is as far as it goes and even that is not likely. It is not because we are not friendly or loving on them as individuals: it is because they are not comfortable with the truth of the Bible exposing the sin they do not want to be rid of.

 

These types of people are not interested in “involvement” for themselves or their family in a true IFB church. They are not likely to allow their children to take part in our activities or our VBS because to do so would give their children a conflicting message between what is in the Bible to what they are living.

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     I am hereby withdrawing from Online Baptist. I will not participate on a forum that allows members (such as kindofblue1977) to promote ungodly and wicked lifestyles. Yes, that is exactly what this member is doing. In the name of tolerance and love, he or she (I am not sure if this member is a man or woman) is promoting homosexualty and lesbianism. I have asked the moderator to delete this thread and have also asked him/her to ban kindofblue1977. Neither one has happened, so (with a heavy heart) I am hereby withdrawing my membership from this board.

 

Sincerely,

Bro Steve Smith

brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org

Edited by brosmith

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Posted · Report post

The report (which is less than 24 hours old) is currently under review. Please wait until a decision is made before you make a decision. Thank you.

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Goodbye, Brosmith. I think this thread has been fascinating because it's popped up at exactly the same time as the >divorce thread and both have been asking the same question: what do we do when people turn up at church professing to be Christians and yet are doing 'X'. I'm inclined to think that your response here and yet silence in the other thread--and pretty much the flavour of all the responses here contrasted with the other thread--has been a poster child for what ROB is talking about >here

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I have in no way promoted anything ungodly.  I am sorry you feel that way.  I have simply asked a question.  This is something that churches will have to address and deal with more and more in coming years.  I think this is an important discussion to have.  I have neighbors in this situation.  I have had a couple with children visit a church I attended at one point. 

 

I am not promoting anything, and I have not attempted to argue homosexual sex is not sinful.  I believe it is. I have simply asked how should we counsel people in these situations?  Should we say it is ok for them to be a family since they have made commitments, but remain celibate?  Should we reject them entirely and not try to reach them?  Should we make our churches unwelcoming to them?  What should we do? 

 

That is my question.  If you cannot see the legitimacy of that question, then I don't know what to do. 

 

Most have given honest and good responses as to their thoughts.  I would like to see a bit more discussion, but if no one has anything else to add, that is fine. 

 

I will add that never have I posted anything disrespectful to anyone, even with those I disagree with. I am respectful and am wiling to listen to all viewpoints, and engage in thoughtful conversation.  I have not posted this or any other item that has promoted anything sinful or attempting to disparage the beliefs of those here, but to ask questions and learn about the beliefs and thoughts of others.  This particular question seems to be an important one in light of what is going on in our culture today.  There are same-sex couples in your community who are legally married. In mine too.  If we want to reach them for Christ, we must be prepared to answer tough questions I raise in this thread.  Because they will ask them.

Edited by kindofblue1977

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Posted · Report post

I am hereby withdrawing from Online Baptist. I will not participate on a forum that allows members (such as kindofblue1977) to promote ungodly and wicked lifestyles. Yes, that is exactly what this member is doing. In the name of tolerance and love, he or she (I am not sure if this member is a man or woman) is promoting homosexualty and lesbianism. I have asked the moderator to delete this thread and have also asked him/her to ban kindofblue1977. Neither one has happened, so (with a heavy heart) I am hereby withdrawing my membership from this board.

Sincerely,
Bro Steve Smith
brosmith@pioneerbaptist.org

How did KOB promote homosexuality, etc? This is a discussion long overdue for churches, especially the IFB type which condemns them Jerry Falwell style.
This is coming to a church near you.

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Posted · Report post

I have in no way promoted anything ungodly. I am sorry you feel that way. I have simply asked a question. This is something that churches will have to address and deal with more and more in coming years. I think this is an important discussion to have. I have neighbors in this situation. I have had a couple with children visit a church I attended at one point.

I am not promoting anything, and I have not attempted to argue homosexual sex is not sinful. I believe it is. I have simply asked how should we counsel people in these situations? Should we say it is ok for them to be a family since they have made commitments, but remain celibate? Should we reject them entirely and not try to reach them? Should we make our churches unwelcoming to them? What should we do?

That is my question. If you cannot see the legitimacy of that question, then I don't know what to do.

Most have given honest and good responses as to their thoughts. I would like to see a bit more discussion, but if no one has anything else to add, that is fine.

I will add that never have I posted anything disrespectful to anyone, even with those I disagree with. I am respectful and am wiling to listen to all viewpoints, and engage in thoughtful conversation. I have not posted this or any other item that has promoted anything sinful or attempting to disparage the beliefs of those here, but to ask questions and learn about the beliefs and thoughts of others. This particular question seems to be an important one in light of what is going on in our culture today. There are same-sex couples in your community who are legally married. In mine too. If we want to reach them for Christ, we must be prepared to answer tough questions I raise in this thread. Because they will ask them.

Any church with any wisdom can see that they must pre-emptively strike concerning this issue.

Rural churches may be the last to encounter this, but even they will, seeing as how our society is permeated by communications media, and therefore, sin.

If we don't spell it out in a legal document, we will lose our buildings, and even personally end up jailed over unpaid lawsuit damages.

They are coming, be prepared.


Anishinaabe

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In order to avoid lawsuits, we have spelled out that we interpret our KJV as disallowing participation by homosexuals in our worship, period.
We have a definition of the word "abomination", included.
This is for legal purposes.
The law ( as of today) allows for us to believe, and practice our religion, excluding those who by practice disqualify themselves from membership.
We don't have to tell anyone this, when they visit, and we haven't.
But, as one previous poster said, they don't visit twice.
They arent mistreated, they are uncomfortable.
They don't fit in.
So they don't return.

But , because of the possibility that an insincere, hostile, activist queer may show up, we should all have language disqualifying them from membership.

It wouldn't hurt to do the same for those in adultery.

Anishinaabe

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Posted · Report post

This is a discussion long overdue for churches, especially the IFB type which condemns them Jerry Falwell style.
This is coming to a church near you.

*sigh* IFB churches must take a biblical stand on this issue and count the cost. This is a matter that has caused a dramatic decrease in membership rolls in IFB churches over the past decade or so. Standing for Truth and holiness is not popular in the era of itching ears. People go to church these days to be entertained, promised health and wealth, listen to a rock and roll show featuring songs with a "Jesus is my boyfriend" message, and have a "preacher" stand up there wearing board shorts, a Hawaiian print button down, and a puka shell necklace and talk about "meeting people where they're at" and how God is love and all of the warm fuzzies. Chances are, if a Bible is even cracked open, it will either be the NIV, the Message, or some sort of other paraphrasing [per]version of our precious Scriptures. People won't bring their Bible to church. Why would they need to? Slap a background of a babbling brook or the tide rolling in on the projector screen and paste those verses up there for everyone to see. Chances are, if they look like they're reading the Bible on their iPhone, they're really just playing Flappy Bird trying to kill time before they can all cut out and meet up at Red LOBster afterward and talk about what so-and-so wore to church. Hey, they showed up and warmed a chair and can live in the world all week with a clean conscience. 

 

Even our Southern Baptist churches have relaxed their standards to "meet the world where they're at". They've sold out and compromised just to inflate their attendance statistics. The prOBlem is that preaching the full Gospel is offensive. The cross, blood atonement, being destined for eternity in hell apart from Christ Jesus, all offensive. Preaching against sin is offensive. The good old hymns about repentance, the blood of Jesus, the old rugged cross, the empty tomb, all boring to today's "churchianity" followers. Our kids today are being taught in the schools that not only is it okay to be gay, but it's cool. Oh, and if you're a boy who one day wakes up and wants to be a girl, they'll let you dress in drag and use the girls' room. These same kids come to church with their fuddy-duddy parents and the preacher talks about how being a sodomite is an abomination to God, and once these kids grow up and move out, you lose them to the world. Why? Because we're in the last days. Our half-empty IFB churches, our IFB churches closing their doors for good once all of the established elders pass away or get put in a nursing home, our children going out into the world and departing from the blessed hope, this should come as no surprise to any of us who know the Word. 

 

There is room for grace, compassion, and love in this situation, but it's also an issue where we cannot compromise just for the sake of pleasing the world or tickling the itching ears of so-called "liberal Christians". To do so would be apostasy. God didn't change His mind about the sin of homosexuality. We cannot ever sit back and make excuses for sin. 

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Posted · Report post

Prophet.

 

That makes sense, and I understand why your church did so.  But being a lawyer, I have to ask, what does the term "homosexual" mean?  Is a person who is attracted to a person of the same gender a homosexual?  Just those who engage in homosexual sex?  What about those who identify as gay but have chosen to remain celibate (I have talked to a few people in this category, they have same-sex attraction, and therefore identify as gay, but as they believe homosexual sex is wrong, chosen to remain celibate).  Do you exclude a person like that?  What if that person has a friend/companion but they have taken vows of celibacy and live as roommates? 

 

It seems, in my reading of the Bible, homosexuality is defined by the sexual act.  So I do not think it necessarily covers same sex attraction where that person is celibate.  But those people today identify as gay.  But if you define as merely a sexual act, then what do you do with a  same-sex couple who are honestly celibate?  Are they homosexuals, or merely friends who have decided to walk through life together?  What if they do not live together, but do everything else together....eat meals, go everywhere, and share life? 

 

I am not trying to be OBnoxious or make excuses for sin. I'm asking legitimate questions. 

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Prophet.

 

That makes sense, and I understand why your church did so.  But being a lawyer, I have to ask, what does the term "homosexual" mean?  Is a person who is attracted to a person of the same gender a homosexual?  Just those who engage in homosexual sex?  What about those who identify as gay but have chosen to remain celibate (I have talked to a few people in this category, they have same-sex attraction, and therefore identify as gay, but as they believe homosexual sex is wrong, chosen to remain celibate).  Do you exclude a person like that?  What if that person has a friend/companion but they have taken vows of celibacy and live as roommates? 

 

It seems, in my reading of the Bible, homosexuality is defined by the sexual act.  So I do not think it necessarily covers same sex attraction where that person is celibate.  But those people today identify as gay.  But if you define as merely a sexual act, then what do you do with a  same-sex couple who are honestly celibate?  Are they homosexuals, or merely friends who have decided to walk through life together?  What if they do not live together, but do everything else together....eat meals, go everywhere, and share life? 

 

I am not trying to be OBnoxious or make excuses for sin. I'm asking legitimate questions. 

Lawyer?  That explains a lot, to me anyway.  It all depends on what the meaning of is is type of thinking and reasoning.  Now I think I understand you.

 

God bless,

Larry

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Posted · Report post

We deal with any lost as with any other lost-we seek to give them the gospel, and their response will direct ours.

 

Those who are attracted to the same gender may believe it may be wrong, and may seek wisdom in a church-but again, we deal with the soul first, because until they are saved, nothing can be done with the sin.  If they hear, but choose to reject because of an identification issue, generally the prOBlem will fix itself-they will leave. But the seed has been planted and we continue to pray for them.

 

Those who come who are 'couples', I believe we deal with as with any lost couples-if they are sincere in their coming, then let the word of God and his Spirit work the heart while we preach the truth in love. It can take time to reach them. If the Spirit is working in their hearts they will surely feel uncomfortable-that's as it should be- and they can take it out by leaving and rejecting, or staying and listening and perhaps getting saved.

 

But I doubt there are many homosexuals, be it in thought or action, that DON'T know the Bible is against their lifestyle. Shouldn't come as a surprise.

 

But I agree that it is something we should all be prepared to deal with, particularly in the way of the world today. We WILL deal with it in one way or another.

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Prophet. That makes sense, and I understand why your church did so. But being a lawyer, I have to ask, what does the term "homosexual" mean? Is a person who is attracted to a person of the same gender a homosexual? Just those who engage in homosexual sex? What about those who identify as gay but have chosen to remain celibate (I have talked to a few people in this category, they have same-sex attraction, and therefore identify as gay, but as they believe homosexual sex is wrong, chosen to remain celibate). Do you exclude a person like that? What if that person has a friend/companion but they have taken vows of celibacy and live as roommates? It seems, in my reading of the Bible, homosexuality is defined by the sexual act. So I do not think it necessarily covers same sex attraction where that person is celibate. But those people today identify as gay. But if you define as merely a sexual act, then what do you do with a same-sex couple who are honestly celibate? Are they homosexuals, or merely friends who have decided to walk through life together? What if they do not live together, but do everything else together....eat meals, go everywhere, and share life? I am not trying to be OBnoxious or make excuses for sin. I'm asking legitimate questions.
"Homosexual" is not our verbiage. We quote this: Lev 20:13 13 If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination:they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Rom 1:25-27 25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections:for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Those who practice unnatural sexual relationships, are not compatable with our Faith. What someone thinks they are, but has never acted on, is not a matter of our concern, since it is impossible to determine, and could change without outward manifestation. Anishinaabe Edited by prophet1

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Our church bylaws state that anyone who is living in a state of unrepentant sexual sin (be it adultery, fornication, or homosexuality) they will not be eligible for a position in church service. They are also subject to church discipline, should the situation arise after becoming a member. Granted, this is not based on gossip and hearsay, nor do our church elders go poking around in people's private matters, but it's a very small, tight knit church in a relatively small town. It would be pretty well OBvious if we ran into a male member kissing another man at the local grocery store. 

 

Our church lost a long-standing member just before Christmas, because our pastor preached against homosexuality and her daughter is a lesbian. Yes, it's sad she left, but it cannot deter our pastors from preaching the truth that comes from God's Word.

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Prophet1. 

That does not answer my question.  I agree with what you posted. 

But what about the same-sex couple who is celibate?  What do you do with them?  How do you counsel them?  Are they homosexual, since they are celibate?  Do you take their word for it?  Do you tell them they must not live together?  Some would say two men living together and doing everything together as a couple, even if there is no physical relationship, is the appearance of sin.  It might be.  This is what I am getting at.  What of the gay couple who comes to know Christ. Other then telling them to stop having sex, what else must they do about their lives.  Or the lives of their children they have committed to raise together.  Or division of their assets.  Or should they just live together as roommates with no sexual contact? 

 

What I they are living together and are not "practicing unnatural sexually relationships?"  My best friend from high school identifies as a gay Christian and is in this very situation.  He and his partner are celibate, but continue to live together and raise an adopted daughter together.

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Prophet1. 

That does not answer my question.  I agree with what you posted. 

But what about the same-sex couple who is celibate?  What do you do with them?  How do you counsel them?  Are they homosexual, since they are celibate?  Do you take their word for it?  Do you tell them they must not live together?  Some would say two men living together and doing everything together as a couple, even if there is no physical relationship, is the appearance of sin.  It might be.  This is what I am getting at.  What of the gay couple who comes to know Christ. Other then telling them to stop having sex, what else must they do about their lives.  Or the lives of their children they have committed to raise together.  Or division of their assets.  Or should they just live together as roommates with no sexual contact? 

 

What I they are living together and are not "practicing unnatural sexually relationships?"  My best friend from high school identifies as a gay Christian and is in this very situation.  He and his partner are celibate, but continue to live together and raise an adopted daughter together.

I know this isn't directed at me, but I can only share what I hope my church elders would do in these situations:

 

 

 

But what about the same-sex couple who is celibate? 

How would we know they are celibate any more than we would a young straight couple who were shacking up, but wanted to teach at VBS? If they are truly repentant, then they would sever the perverse relationship even if it was painful. Jesus never promised that taking up our cross and following Him would be easy. In fact, He said that if one did not despise his father and mother that they did not truly love, and want to follow Him. He wasn't saying in order to be a Christian you have to hate your parents, but rather we should be willing to part ways with anyone who would cause us to stray from God's holy, perfect Truth.

 

 

 

 Do you tell them they must not live together?

Absolutely! I would give the same suggestion to a straight couple living together out of wedlock, even if they were sleeping in separate rooms, even separate floors. The temptation is far too great. It's like handing the keys over to Satan and saying, "here, drive for me, will ya?"

 

 

 

Some would say two men living together and doing everything together as a couple, even if there is no physical relationship, is the appearance of sin.  It might be.

Chances are, if they aren't prone to sexual deviancy, they aren't going to be remotely tempted to engage in physical acts with one another. Still, I would caution unrelated adult men against living together long-term. It can cause them to become very set in their ways, very comfortable with the company of other men as opposed to desiring a godly covenant marriage with a Christian woman.

 

 

 

 Or the lives of their children they have committed to raise together.

It is truly a tragedy when children are unwittingly brought into such an unholy union. That's still no excuse to maintain a sinful relationship! Those children need to be bathed in much prayer, because their lives are in spiritual turmoil whether their gay parents are together, or separated.

 

 

 

Or division of their assets.

In a state that recognizes such an abomination as gay "marriage", the division of assets in the severing of the relationship would need to be handled by an attorney. With that said, if one partner comes to know Christ as their Savior, the repentance must be swift and they must be willing to leave behind their investments, their house, the car, the family dog, etc. if that's what it takes to turn away from a sinful situation.

 

 

 

Or should they just live together as roommates with no sexual contact?

I wouldn't advise that at all. 

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Prophet1. 

That does not answer my question.  I agree with what you posted. 

But what about the same-sex couple who is celibate?  What do you do with them?  How do you counsel them?  Are they homosexual, since they are celibate?  Do you take their word for it?  Do you tell them they must not live together?  Some would say two men living together and doing everything together as a couple, even if there is no physical relationship, is the appearance of sin.  It might be.  This is what I am getting at.  What of the gay couple who comes to know Christ. Other then telling them to stop having sex, what else must they do about their lives.  Or the lives of their children they have committed to raise together.  Or division of their assets.  Or should they just live together as roommates with no sexual contact? 

 

What I they are living together and are not "practicing unnatural sexually relationships?"  My best friend from high school identifies as a gay Christian and is in this very situation.  He and his partner are celibate, but continue to live together and raise an adopted daughter together.

 

I understand what you're getting at with this line of reasoning, but I do think the scenario is incredibly far-fetched and kind of a false notion. It would be foolish to think two people who have been engaging in a sexual relationship could/would remain in celibate cohabitation with no change to the rest of their relationship. If it were an unmarried heterosexual couple living together and having sex, would you honestly believe them if they told you they continue to live together but just stopped having sex? Or would you tell them they need to completely separate and remove the temptation?

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What I they are living together and are not "practicing unnatural sexually relationships?"  My best friend from high school identifies as a gay Christian and is in this very situation.  He and his partner are celibate, but continue to live together and raise an adopted daughter together

 

A "gay Christian" is an oxymoron....there is no such thing as a "gay" Christian.  Gay Christians don't exist. Gay is simply a euphemism (a "kinder" word) for the biblical word sodomite.

 

According to Scripture, sodomites will not inherit the kingdom of God:

1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1 Corinthians 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

 

IOW, there will be no sodomites in heaven!

 

Those who are saved and call themselves Christians are new creatures in Christ Jesus:

2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Edited by LindaR

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*sigh* IFB churches must take a biblical stand on this issue and count the cost. This is a matter that has caused a dramatic decrease in membership rolls in IFB churches over the past decade or so. Standing for Truth and holiness is not popular in the era of itching ears. People go to church these days to be entertained, promised health and wealth, listen to a rock and roll show featuring songs with a "Jesus is my boyfriend" message, and have a "preacher" stand up there wearing board shorts, a Hawaiian print button down, and a puka shell necklace and talk about "meeting people where they're at" and how God is love and all of the warm fuzzies. Chances are, if a Bible is even cracked open, it will either be the NIV, the Message, or some sort of other paraphrasing [per]version of our precious Scriptures. People won't bring their Bible to church. Why would they need to? Slap a background of a babbling brook or the tide rolling in on the projector screen and paste those verses up there for everyone to see. Chances are, if they look like they're reading the Bible on their iPhone, they're really just playing Flappy Bird trying to kill time before they can all cut out and meet up at Red LOBster afterward and talk about what so-and-so wore to church. Hey, they showed up and warmed a chair and can live in the world all week with a clean conscience......"

Well believe it or not helpmeet, I agree with most of what you wrote. It was funny but true. I never heard of flappy bird lol. But my point is gays believe certain Christians hate them ala Falwell. Love can win them over, not condemnation. Allow the holy spirit to minister to them. In this culture they are casualties and are sick.

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Prophet.
 
That makes sense, and I understand why your church did so.  But being a lawyer, I have to ask, what does the term "homosexual" mean?  Is a person who is attracted to a person of the same gender a homosexual?  Just those who engage in homosexual sex?  What about those who identify as gay but have chosen to remain celibate (I have talked to a few people in this category, they have same-sex attraction, and therefore identify as gay, but as they believe homosexual sex is wrong, chosen to remain celibate).  Do you exclude a person like that?  What if that person has a friend/companion but they have taken vows of celibacy and live as roommates? 
 
It seems, in my reading of the Bible, homosexuality is defined by the sexual act.  So I do not think it necessarily covers same sex attraction where that person is celibate.  But those people today identify as gay.  But if you define as merely a sexual act, then what do you do with a  same-sex couple who are honestly celibate?  Are they homosexuals, or merely friends who have decided to walk through life together?  What if they do not live together, but do everything else together....eat meals, go everywhere, and share life? 
 
I am not trying to be OBnoxious or make excuses for sin. I'm asking legitimate questions.

what did Jesus say about one lusting after a woman in one's heart? Guilty of adultery.

Same standard... One does not have to act physically to be guilty of being a sodomite. There must be a turning from sin and a turning toward God. Turning from does not mean keeping it at your door.
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Prophet1.

That does not answer my question. I agree with what you posted.
But what about the same-sex couple who is celibate? What do you do with them? How do you counsel them? Are they homosexual, since they are celibate? Do you take their word for it? Do you tell them they must not live together? Some would say two men living together and doing everything together as a couple, even if there is no physical relationship, is the appearance of sin. It might be. This is what I am getting at. What of the gay couple who comes to know Christ. Other then telling them to stop having sex, what else must they do about their lives. Or the lives of their children they have committed to raise together. Or division of their assets. Or should they just live together as roommates with no sexual contact?

What I they are living together and are not "practicing unnatural sexually relationships?" My best friend from high school identifies as a gay Christian and is in this very situation. He and his partner are celibate, but continue to live together and raise an adopted daughter together.

"The appearance of sin" isn't a Scriptural taboo.
"The appearance of evil", is.
For the sake of legal purposes, we do not acknowledge that people who have been given up by God, can be helped by man.
Personally, if they don't remove themself from the situation, with all due diligence, I doubt their sincerity.


Consider this:

There is a very real danger, when you have someone who was recruited into an aberrant lifestyle around, that they will in turn molest/recruit other children, even without purposefully attempting to.


Anishinaabe

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I feel like this question has been answered to death... So im just here to poke the horse..

*poke poke*

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