To be honest even when pre-trib, I never thought too much about the time of the judgment seat of Christ timing. We know it will happen, and unlike the Great White Throne judgment, and the Sheep/Goats judgment, the Bible doesn't specifically say, so no matter what position we take, it would be conjecture and fancy footwork.
The thought of course is that, if the rapture was pre-trib, it gives the Lord the next seven years for the judgment, before His return. However, my question is, does God NEED seven literal, earthly years for an event occurring in Heaven, presumably outside of the constraints of time and space laws that rule the rest of the universe? If the Lord raptured us out a day, a month, or a year before His return, could He not complete a judgment of the saved, if we are all, like the Lord, no longer under the constraints of time?
Its also possible that, from the time of the first believers arriving in glory, after the ascension of Christ, their judgments may be on-going as they arrive. Nowhere does the Bible say it will be one judgment of all saved all at once.
So, since the Bible doesn't do us the courtesy of telling us when it occurs, I will just hold that it WILL occur as the Lord says it will, and be pleased when it does.
Well that is pretty vague. lol
I am one that believes that the Bible does in fact place the JSOC and by such placement, we can determine several other facts about end times chronology.
Let me give you a few facts.
I personally think this is major flaw in the Post trib or mid trib rapture position.
The SINS of the Christian were judged on the cross at Calvary. Therefore, the purpose of the JSOC is not to judge SIN, but rather to judge the faithful or unfaithful SERVICE of the believer AFTER his or her conversion.
Paul mentions this event not once, but twice in his letters.
But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ. For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God. So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Romans 14:10-12)
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences. (2 Corinthians 5:10, 11)
So, the question that is fair and deserves an answer in place of vagaries, is If the church is to pass through the Tribulation Period or more the Biblical nomenclature, JACOBS trouble, When does the JSOC take place?
I only wish to give a few thoughts as this post could ramble on for a bit.
Please read, please think about the conclusion one makes as one tries to come to Biblical truth. IFB positions aside, I am only interested in what the Bible says, not what men think it teaches.
1. WHY IT CANNOT BE AFTER THE TRIB
This would be impossible in light of the fact that the judgment of the beast (antichrist) takes place at the second advent, as well as the judgment of the nations. Neither of these judgments involve born again believers.
First, the judgment of the beast.
And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh. (Revelation 19:19-21)
The first thing the Lord Jesus Christ does after his literal and physical return to the earth is to judge the man of sin, the son of perdition.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. (2 Thessalonians 2:8-10)
Daniel spoke of this also.
I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened. I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame. As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time. (Daniel 7:9-12)
Some have misunderstood that Daniel’s vision pertains to the White Throne Judgment (WTJ), but this is impossible because the beast is “given to the burning flame, matching
John’s account in Revelation 19.
Secondly, the Lord Jesus Christ will judge the nations after he judges the beast.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:31-46)
These are the Gentile nations and they will be giving account for how they treated Jesus’ brethren (literal and physical Jews) during the Tribulation. Their salvation and entry into the millennial kingdom is based upon their WORKS and whether they helped the Jews during Daniel’s 70th week or not. This cannot be applied to anyone in the church, the body of Christ, no matter what kind of theological gymnastics are attempted. There isn’t a born again member of the body of Christ within 50 chapters of these verses in either direction.
Also, Mike, you stated that non one has ever given you satisfaction on Rev 14:14 and on.
Really? You mean that you can´t see the simple differences between Rev 14 and 1 Thess 4?
In Rev there are TRUMPETS not a TRUMP, which is the sound of a trumpet.
There are no TRUMPETS in 1 Thess 4.
Dispensational truth is in its most basic thought, THINGS THAT ARE DIFFERENT ARE NOT THE SAME, no matter how much we desire them to be.
So, I posted 1 reason why the rapture cannot be during or after the Trib, gave you several scriptures to think about. If you answer, please address my verses - please do not just simply present your reasoning why you think the Pre Trib position is wrong, but address my post, line by line. Anything other that that is just mere arguing.
One thing this board has caused me to shy away from it is too much arguing and posturing, but very little real debate.
And the fact the Brother Matt allows fools to run amok here. I mean, with all due respect, a fellow who does not hold the Pre Trib position is a moderator on this site?? (shaking head in disbelief)
Where do you draw the line brother?