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Paradise And Abraham's Bosom


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#21 Winman

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:21 PM

Cross out that "immediately" in my prior post. The rest of it and what you said prior to that post I was in agreement with. Yes, Jesus did have to rise from the dead and ascend into heaven for the Gospel to be complete but, when he "led captivity captive" those that believed what he preached to them were moved from Abraham's bosom into heaven with my Savior, Jesus Christ...and so shall they ever be.

Yes, I believe that after Jesus sprinkled his blood on the mercy seat in heaven, and after he received the promise of the Spirit, that he descended again into the heart of the earth and gave those believers the Holy Spirit, and then led them to heaven. That is what is meant by "he gave gifts to men" in Ephesians 4:8;

 

Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
 
Until Jesus ascended to heaven after he was raised from the dead, believers were shown to be in the heart of the earth such as the prophet Samuel when he died. 
 
1 Sam 28:15 And Samuel said to Saul, Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up? And Saul answered, I am sore distressed; for the Philistines make war against me, and God is departed from me, and answereth me no more, neither by prophets, nor by dreams: therefore I have called thee, that thou mayest make known unto me what I shall do.
 
Samuel was not in heaven when he died, he was down in the heart of the earth. 
 
Enoch and Elija? That is a different story for which I have no definite answer. 


#22 "I am chief"

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:20 PM

 

 I believe that after Jesus sprinkled his blood on the mercy seat in heaven, and after he received the promise of the Spirit, that he descended again into the heart of the earth and gave those believers the Holy Spirit

Hmmm...never heard of this before? "after he received the promise of the Spirit" You're not talking about Jesus Christ, you mean Abraham, right? 

 

"that he descended again into the heart of the earth" I remotely recall someone once saying something similar to this. I think they were talking about the " I am not yet ascended to my Father:" John 20:17 I would be interested to hear it all again, it's been many years ago.



#23 Winman

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:58 PM

Hmmm...never heard of this before? "after he received the promise of the Spirit" You're not talking about Jesus Christ, you mean Abraham, right? 

 

"that he descended again into the heart of the earth" I remotely recall someone once saying something similar to this. I think they were talking about the " I am not yet ascended to my Father:" John 20:17 I would be interested to hear it all again, it's been many years ago.

 

You have not heard that Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit? Read Acts chapter 2;

 

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Peter is speaking of Jesus here. 

 

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

 

Jesus also said he had to go away before the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) would come to believers.

 

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

I do not believe Jesus could send the Holy Spirit to believers until their sins had been atoned for. They had to be washed clean in his blood, the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean vessel. 

 

All I know is that Jesus said he would send the Spirit "from the Father" and Peter said that Jesus received the promise of the Holy Ghost "of the Father" and shed it forth on the day of Pentacost. 


Edited by Winman, 21 July 2014 - 09:07 PM.


#24 Miss Daisy

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 09:42 PM

I'll have to ask my pastor about this topic. All news to me.



#25 "I am chief"

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 06:58 PM

Hmmm...never heard of this before? "after he received the promise of the Spirit" You're not talking about Jesus Christ, you mean Abraham, right? 

 

"that he descended again into the heart of the earth" I remotely recall someone once saying something similar to this. I think they were talking about the " I am not yet ascended to my Father:" John 20:17 I would be interested to hear it all again, it's been many years ago.

 

You have not heard that Jesus received the promise of the Holy Spirit? Read Acts chapter 2;

 

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Peter is speaking of Jesus here. 

 

Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

 

Jesus also said he had to go away before the Comforter (the Holy Spirit) would come to believers.

 

Jhn 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

 

I do not believe Jesus could send the Holy Spirit to believers until their sins had been atoned for. They had to be washed clean in his blood, the Holy Spirit cannot dwell in an unclean vessel. 

 

All I know is that Jesus said he would send the Spirit "from the Father" and Peter said that Jesus received the promise of the Holy Ghost "of the Father" and shed it forth on the day of Pentacost. 

I believe Jesus received the "promise." That promise was the Holy Spirit would be given to men, the Father would "give you (them, the disciples) another comforter." John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" I can't agree with you that the Bible spoke of being given the Holy Spirit, I think if we study this out we'll find the Father released the Holy Spirit when Christ ascended to the Father. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Of course we know the "Word" here referenced is Jesus Christ. 

 

John 7

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

"the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive"

 

To answer your question NO I've never heard that Jesus Christ had to receive the Holy Spirit. I can't agree with that premise either.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't fellowship with you.



#26 Winman

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:55 PM

I believe Jesus received the "promise." That promise was the Holy Spirit would be given to men, the Father would "give you (them, the disciples) another comforter." John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;" I can't agree with you that the Bible spoke of being given the Holy Spirit, I think if we study this out we'll find the Father released the Holy Spirit when Christ ascended to the Father. 1 John 5:7 "For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." Of course we know the "Word" here referenced is Jesus Christ. 

 

John 7

37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.

38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

"the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive"

 

To answer your question NO I've never heard that Jesus Christ had to receive the Holy Spirit. I can't agree with that premise either.

That doesn't mean I wouldn't fellowship with you.

Well, I tend to believe what the scriptures say. Acts 2:33 seems to say Jesus received the Spirit. 

 

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

I am not an expert on grammar, but I believe the phrase "and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost" points to the word "he" meaning Jesus. 

 

Did Jesus have the "indwelling" Spirit before he rose from the dead? I am not sure. The scriptures say the Spirit was "upon" him. 

 

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

 

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

If Jesus had the indwelling Spirit, then why did the Holy Spirit need to light upon him? Why do the scriptures say God "annointed" Jesus with the Holy Spirit?

 

There might be scripture that says Jesus had the indwelling Spirit, but I am not aware of it. There is however, much scripture that says the Spirit would rest "upon him".

 

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

 

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

 

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

 

Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
 
As you see, the scriptures repeatedly say the Spirit would be "upon" Jesus, not "in him". So perhaps Acts 2:33 is literal, and Jesus received the indwelling Holy Spirit when he rose from the dead and was glorified. 
 
If you have scripture that shows Jesus had the indwelling Spirit, I will be glad to look at it. 


#27 Ukulelemike

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 09:16 AM

Well as I understand scripture, jesus WAS, and indeed, IS God, so, the Spirit was always part of Him, the same as the Spirit is part of the Father, (if that would be the proper way to say it, "part of".) If Jesus is God, and the father is God and the Spirit is God, then how can we say that Jesus didn't 'have' the Spirit?
 

I think this is where our inability to fully grasp the intricacies of the relationship of God to Himself, so to speak. Father, Son and Spirit are all God, all One God, yet three Persons, three, what, workings, of that same God? Jesus had a work to do, and the Spirit had a work to do, both of which meshed perfectly, complimenting each work, but still separate.  

 

I am getting worse at trying to put into words what I am arguing can't be put into words. Maybe someone else can say it better. But the bottom line is, Father Son and Spirit are all one-to suggest Jesus didn't 'have' the Spirit is like saying Jesus didn't have Jesus. They are One.



#28 "I am chief"

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 01:03 PM

 

Well, I tend to believe what the scriptures say. Acts 2:33 seems to say Jesus received the Spirit. 

 

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

I am not an expert on grammar, but I believe the phrase "and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost" points to the word "he" meaning Jesus. 

Me either but, I understand the promise would be to men that believed on Jesus not to God in the flesh, very God, Jesus Christ. 

Did Jesus have the "indwelling" Spirit before he rose from the dead? I am not sure. The scriptures say the Spirit was "upon" him. 

 

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

 

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

If Jesus had the indwelling Spirit, then why did the Holy Spirit need to light upon him? Why do the scriptures say God "annointed" Jesus with the Holy Spirit?

 

There might be scripture that says Jesus had the indwelling Spirit, but I am not aware of it. There is however, much scripture that says the Spirit would rest "upon him".

 

Isa 11:2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD;

 

Isa 42:1 Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

 

Isa 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;

 

Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
 
As you see, the scriptures repeatedly say the Spirit would be "upon" Jesus, not "in him". So perhaps Acts 2:33 is literal, and Jesus received the indwelling Holy Spirit when he rose from the dead and was glorified. 
 
If you have scripture that shows Jesus had the indwelling Spirit, I will be glad to look at it. 

 

It's just another one of those things which we have to come to understand by faith. All of the signs of the Holy Spirit you mention above are not any requirement of God the Son. They are signs for man and primarily for the Jews. The Father gave the Jews what they needed, signs (no matter they were blind to it) of the Father's approval of His Son, Jesus Christ. You really don't believe the work of Jesus Christ, very God, needed anything beyond himself to perform the work he came to do, do you? In all my 60 years I've never heard anyone attempt to forward a doctrine where Jesus Christ needed anything. This is indeed a strange doctrine. Is it one you've developed on your own or is there a congregation teaching this somewhere?



#29 Winman

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:34 PM

It's just another one of those things which we have to come to understand by faith. All of the signs of the Holy Spirit you mention above are not any requirement of God the Son. They are signs for man and primarily for the Jews. The Father gave the Jews what they needed, signs (no matter they were blind to it) of the Father's approval of His Son, Jesus Christ. You really don't believe the work of Jesus Christ, very God, needed anything beyond himself to perform the work he came to do, do you? In all my 60 years I've never heard anyone attempt to forward a doctrine where Jesus Christ needed anything. This is indeed a strange doctrine. Is it one you've developed on your own or is there a congregation teaching this somewhere?

I just believe what scripture says. Acts 2:33 says Jesus received the promise of the Holy Ghost. I didn't say that, Peter under the influence of the Holy Spirit said that. 

 

Acts 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Open your Bible and read this verse for yourself. Tell me what it says. 

 

Just because you have never heard of this before does not make it wrong. Show where the scriptures say Jesus had the indwelling Spirit before he rose from the dead, I don't believe you can show it. But there are MANY scriptures that say the Spirit was "upon" him. 

 

Mat 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence: and great multitudes followed him, and he healed them all;
16 And charged them that they should not make him known:
17 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying,
18 Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.
19 He shall not strive, nor cry; neither shall any man hear his voice in the streets.
20 A bruised reed shall he not break, and smoking flax shall he not quench, till he send forth judgment unto victory.
21 And in his name shall the Gentiles trust.
 
There is one verse that says Jesus was "full of the Holy Ghost"
 
Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,

 

Does this verse say Jesus had the indwelling Spirit before he rose from the dead and was glorified? Perhaps, perhaps not. 


Edited by Winman, 23 July 2014 - 04:35 PM.


#30 Winman

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:38 PM

Well as I understand scripture, jesus WAS, and indeed, IS God, so, the Spirit was always part of Him, the same as the Spirit is part of the Father, (if that would be the proper way to say it, "part of".) If Jesus is God, and the father is God and the Spirit is God, then how can we say that Jesus didn't 'have' the Spirit?
 

I think this is where our inability to fully grasp the intricacies of the relationship of God to Himself, so to speak. Father, Son and Spirit are all God, all One God, yet three Persons, three, what, workings, of that same God? Jesus had a work to do, and the Spirit had a work to do, both of which meshed perfectly, complimenting each work, but still separate.  

 

I am getting worse at trying to put into words what I am arguing can't be put into words. Maybe someone else can say it better. But the bottom line is, Father Son and Spirit are all one-to suggest Jesus didn't 'have' the Spirit is like saying Jesus didn't have Jesus. They are One.

I agree 100% that Jesus WAS and IS God. Nevertheless, Acts 2:33 says Jesus received the promise of the Spirit from his Father. 

 

I don't understand it, I just believe it. 


Edited by Winman, 23 July 2014 - 04:38 PM.


#31 "I am chief"

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:46 AM

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.



#32 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:55 AM

I see Acts 2:33 as Luke saying that God told Jesus to tell the Apostles that the Spirit would come. Luke went on to say that the promise was fulfilled.

John's Gospel reveals that Jesus did in fact promise the coming of the Spirit... As does Acts 1:8

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ, 24 July 2014 - 08:03 AM.


#33 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:06 AM

Paradise is found 3 times in the NT only

 

 Lu 23:43 And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Not sure where it is in this verse.  But Christ had not died yet.

2Co 12:2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
 3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)

 4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.  Here Paul says it was UP and it was located in the third heaven. this was after the Ascension of Christ. 

 

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God. We see that the paradise of God in at this time in heaven, and that the tree of life is there.  but we see by this verse Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.  The previous chapter tells us the new Jerulasem is on the earth by Rev 22 and that the tree of life is in it so the paradise is part of the New Jerusalem and looks to be a Hebrew/Jewish thing.  Even Abraham was an Hebrew.

 

 

Abraham's Bosom is found 1 time only in the NT, but bosom in the next verse let's us know it was Abraham's bosom.

 

Lu 16:22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
 23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.

No mention that his is paradise.  It is an assumption by men (it may be a good one but no way to prove it with Scripture)

 

It is hard to make a clear direct connection that Abraham's Bosom is indeed in Paradise.  When in almost ever instance of Paradise is always up.  and the angels carried the beggar into Abraham's bosom they could carry him both up or down.  We do know that Torments was lower that Abraham's bosom or at least  straight across because the reference to the rich man lifting up his eyes could be he looked up from his condition of flames because he could have been looking down at his hands and feet looking at the flame of fire.  Those text is not calling the location of Abraham and the beggar Abraham's bosom but that the angels carried him there into his bosom.

 

Ascended in context with Jesus is found 6 times in the  NT and once in the OT for a total of 7 times.

 

 Ps 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, [for] the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell [among them].
 Joh 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, [even] the Son of man which is in heaven.
 Joh 20:17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and [to] my God, and your God.
 Ac 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
 Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
 Eph 4:9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
 Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

 

Lead captivity captive is the standard verse that is attributed to Torments and Paradise, again an assumption by men (it may be a good one but can't be truly connected by scripture). 

 

Jesus was raised from the dead, it does not say he was raised from Paradise.  Ascended was from the Planet Surface not from the dead.  So Jesus being raised from the dead and his ascension are two different events.  Some believe (again an assumption and a good one) that Jesus ascended unto his father two times. Once between his appearance to Mary John 20:17 and his appearance to the 11 in the upper room and then again when he left them in Galilee in Acts 1:9 (though it does not say ascended here but taken up).  The Scriptures say he ascended and it could have been in reference to the first between his visits with Mary and his disciples and not the taken up of Acts 1:9.

 

men have made their statements and many of have been taught the things that are mentioned in previous posts.  to understand it we need to look back at the verses and really set aside the teaching of men and just study out what God's word says and if there is a connection by rightly dividing them.

 

It is difficult and this is an area again many disagree but there is no lost salvation if Paradise and Abraham's bosom are the same places or not.

 

 

 

 

 



#34 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 08:09 AM

I'll have to ask my pastor about this topic. All news to me.

Daisy you need to not ask men but God and study it out for yourself.  The command to study in 2Tim 2:15 is for you as well.  so write out all the verse and observe the textual context and learn to rightly divide the word of truth for yourself.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 24 July 2014 - 08:10 AM.


#35 HappyChristian

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:14 AM

Daisy you need to not ask men but God and study it out for yourself.  The command to study in 2Tim 2:15 is for you as well.  so write out all the verse and observe the textual context and learn to rightly divide the word of truth for yourself.

Urging someone to study scripture is great. But do not interfere with someone who is going to their pastor for clarification on something.  Period.



#36 Winman

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 03:51 PM

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

And when was this written? 



#37 Winman

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 04:24 PM

I see Acts 2:33 as Luke saying that God told Jesus to tell the Apostles that the Spirit would come. Luke went on to say that the promise was fulfilled.

John's Gospel reveals that Jesus did in fact promise the coming of the Spirit... As does Acts 1:8

 

Everyone agrees that Jesus promised the Spirit to believers, but doesn't Acts 2:33 also say Jesus received the Holy Ghost?

 

Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
 
This seems to be a fulfillment of Psalm 68:18;
 
Psa 68:18 Thou hast ascended on high, thou hast led captivity captive: thou hast received gifts for men; yea, for the rebellious also, that the LORD God might dwell among them.
 
Paul also quotes this verse in Ephesians 4:8;
 
Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men
 
The way I understand it is that Jesus had to ascend to the Father and receive the Holy Ghost (Spirit) from him in order to send him to believers. 
 
Jhn 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
 
.Jhn 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
 
Yes, Col 2:8 says in him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily, but this was written after Jesus rose from the dead and ascended to the Father. 
 
I might be wrong, but I don't think I am. Scripture before this says the Spirit was "upon" Jesus, not "in" him. 

Edited by Winman, 24 July 2014 - 04:25 PM.


#38 Ukulelemike

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 06:55 PM

It kind of seems to me that He received the PROMISE of the Spirit, not that He received the Spirit. And that Spirit He shed forth, and what the men of the nations in Jerusalem were seeing was the result of that Spirit having been shed abroad.



#39 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 07:29 PM

Urging someone to study scripture is great. But do not interfere with someone who is going to their pastor for clarification on something.  Period.

That was not my intent. 

 

and don't take the following wrong.

 

Where in scripture does it say go to the pastor and see what he says?

 

But it does say to study.

 

The current western Christianity runs its fellowships in opposition as to how the NT ones did.   And this has caused Christians to be weak in knowledge, wisdom and spirituality.

 

the Muslim world is afraid of one thing that could destroy their religion.  It is western culture.  this western culture rooted is rooted in the Old Roman Empire and it has ruined Christianity and they fear it will do the same to Islam.



#40 lettheredeemedsayso

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Posted 24 July 2014 - 09:43 PM

Because the high priest, Jesus Christ, had not entered once and for all into the holy of holies and sprinkled His blood on the Mercy seat. Hebrews 10






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