Dorightchristians - King James Onlyism Before Peter Ruckman

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Dr. Elisha Weismann Contrary to critics like James White, Rick Norris, Fred Butler, JD Hall, Doug Cutelick, and all modern professional liars, the King James Only view did not begin with Peter Ruckman, Ruckman was merely instrumental in causing professing Baptists to quit riding the fence on the issue. Thomas Morris posted the following quote […]b.gif?host=dorightchristians.wordpress.c

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Just heard an interview with Dr James White, He named some other people that was KJVO before Ruckman.

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Surely everybody between about 1660 & 1881 (Revised version) was KJO? And KJO was the generally held position among evangelicals until about 1980.

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From the article:  … the Authorized Translation of the Bible, which appeared in 1611…our English translation is even better than the original Hebrew and Greek. There is only one way to explain this…I am confident that the Authorized Version was inspired.  

 

Is this what is known as secondary inspiration?

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What a seriously flawed statement. In order for our English Bible to be "better than the original Hebrew and Greek" that would mean somehow the originals God directly inspired were inferior.

 

There are some who lift the KJB up to the point of an idol with their false ideas and over exalting of it somehow rising above the original, directly, divinely inspired Scripture.

 

I believe the KJB is the true Word of God as were the originals and the faithful copies which followed.

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I was KJB before Ruckman became known outside his home area.  It's been the Bible I used since childhood (except for one year in school: the teacher gave us all Good News for Modern Man.  We called it Bad News for Modern Apes - hated it) and still use today.  And I didn't need a man (who doesn't belong in the pulpit, IMO) to tell me so.  :wink

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I've been KJB since the Holy Ghost "told me" to use the KJB. It wasn't until after that before I ever even heard of anyone being KJO. It wasn't until I joined this board that I ever heard of Ruckman.

 

I don't like any of the paraphrase "Bibles" (which I don't really consider to be actual Bibles because they are some man's idea of taking God's Word and then putting His Word into the man's own choice of wording as if he could do a better jOB than God! All the while, these paraphrases which are not backed by any scholarship or peer review for accuracy, are tainted and sometimes outright tarnished with the leanings and preferences of how the paraphraser would like things to read.

 

I've never been able to understand why the NIV ever became so popular. That's one of the worst versions I've encountered. I've read books or articles where the author uses the NIV and I will read the passage from the NIV in the book and then go "huh?". Then I look it up in my KJB to find out what the verse or passage actually says and means.

 

I'm thankful God Himself directed me to the KJB.

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I was KJB before Ruckman became known outside his home area.  It's been the Bible I used since childhood (except for one year in school: the teacher gave us all Good News for Modern Man.  We called it Bad News for Modern Apes - hated it) and still use today.  And I didn't need a man (who doesn't belong in the pulpit, IMO) to tell me so.  :wink

 

HC, is this because of Ruckman's many marriages.  Some of them after he was saved?

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From the article:  … the Authorized Translation of the Bible, which appeared in 1611…our English translation is even better than the original Hebrew and Greek. There is only one way to explain this…I am confident that the Authorized Version was inspired.  
 
Is this what is known as secondary inspiration?


Hence, this is the prOBlem u have with these people who feel that the 1611 is better than the originals. It puts the translation as an idol and people worship it, rather than God our Savior.
Saw this on another forum;
apparently the KJV agrees with the Watch Tower Society

John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. KJV

John 14:14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. NIV

John 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. ESV

John 14:14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. NASB

John 14:14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. HCSB


you notice what is missing in the KJV?

All translations have their issues

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Hence, this is the prOBlem u have with these people who feel that the 1611 is better than the originals. It puts the translation as an idol and people worship it, rather than God our Savior.
Saw this on another forum;
apparently the KJV agrees with the Watch Tower Society

John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. KJV

John 14:14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. NIV

John 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. ESV

John 14:14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. NASB

John 14:14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. HCSB


you notice what is missing in the KJV?

All translations have their issues

Heh. I would say that the Watch Tower Society agrees with the KJB, not the other way around...especially since the KJB came first.  :clapping:

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HC, is this because of Ruckman's many marriages.  Some of them after he was saved?

That's the biggie, yes.  (I don't want to derail the thread, though...)

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Heh. I would say that the Watch Tower Society agrees with the KJB, not the other way around...especially since the KJB came first.  :clapping:


Luanne, seriously, do you see the mistake in the KJV compared ti the other translations? I'll let you look at it before I point it out

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Luanne, seriously, do you see the mistake in the KJV compared ti the other translations? I'll let you look at it before I point it out

I presume that you are prOBably referencing the fact that "me" isn't in there.  If so, I don't accept that it's a mistake.  Reading the context plainly points out whom we are to ask...

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I presume that you are prOBably referencing the fact that "me" isn't in there.  If so, I don't accept that it's a mistake.  Reading the context plainly points out whom we are to ask...

but you can say that when we pray to God and not Jesus, that God will hear us, Rather that we do pray to Jesus in Heaven and Jesus will answer. It more proves Christ's divinity.

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Actually, the watchtower does point to that verse to use against Christ divinity

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That's an interesting point.

 

Interestingly enough, by not using "me", though, it proves His divinity because He says He will answer.  And only God answers, right?  

 

It needs to be taken in context of the whole chapter - and other verses on prayer.  Watchtower is just like any other cult - take a verse here or there to "prove" what they believe.  As you well know, even some Christians do that.  But we aren't supposed to. Scripture dovetails and there are so many passages on prayer that, when taken together, we know that we are to pray to the Father through the Son - and God will answer.

 

I realize that cults can lead people astray by using one verse in a certain manner (heh - as do too many Christians today, too!) but that doesn't negate the truth of the KJB (and I know you didn't say that...).   :icon_smile:

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That's the biggie, yes.  (I don't want to derail the thread, though...)

 

That's what I thought.  I think I know what other things you are talking about, as well.  However, I won't get into them.

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Hence, this is the prOBlem u have with these people who feel that the 1611 is better than the originals. It puts the translation as an idol and people worship it, rather than God our Savior.
Saw this on another forum;
apparently the KJV agrees with the Watch Tower Society

John 14:14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it. KJV

John 14:14 You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it. NIV

John 14:14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it. ESV

John 14:14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. NASB

John 14:14 If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it. HCSB


you notice what is missing in the KJV?

All translations have their issues

 
Jeffrey, what "originals" are you talking about?  There are no originals with the KJV.  The Old Testament of the KJV comes from the Hebrew Masoretic Text (which in Hebrew, is flawless).  The New Testament of the KJV comes from the Textus Receptus (TR), not the corrupted Alexandrian Texts.  All Modern Versions come from the Alexandrian Texts.

So, now we are back to talking about the validity of the KJV on a KJVO forum?  I thought those days were gone.   :puzzled3:  I will say it again.  This reminds me of the days of Kevin Miller, and "His Purpose Driven Life" book by Rick Warren.  And, we can all see how that one turned out.  Chrislam?  Seriously, Jeffrey? 

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Jeffrey, what "originals" are you talking about?  There are no originals with the KJV.  The Old Testament of the KJV comes from the Hebrew Masoretic Text (which in Hebrew, is flawless).  The New Testament of the KJV comes from the Textus Receptus (TR), not the corrupted Alexandrian Texts.  All Modern Versions come from the Alexandrian Texts.

So, now we are back to talking about the validity of the KJV on a KJVO forum?  I thought those days were gone.   :puzzled3:  I will say it again.  This reminds me of the days of Kevin Miller, and "His Purpose Driven Life" book by Rick Warren.  And, we can all see how that one turned out.  Chrislam?  Seriously, Jeffrey? 

candle, there will always be people who question everything we believe - even whether or not the KJB is THE scripture for English speaking people.  

 

But, to be honest, Jeffery has a point (in the statement about some people correcting the originals).  There are people out there (and on here!) who believe that the KJB corrects the Greek, thus rendering the Textus Receptus to be inferior (whether they want to think so or not) to the KJB and allowing them to correct the Receptus by "reading between the lines" - which brings about some pretty strange teachings!

 

We learn oftentimes by discussing. If Jeffery begins to bash the KJB he'll be stopped, rest assured (I realize he said there was a mistake in John 14:14, but that is what we're discussing...and it won't go any further.  :icon_smile: )

 

I don't get your reference to Crislam, though...

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candle, there will always be people who question everything we believe - even whether or not the KJB is THE scripture for English speaking people.  

 

But, to be honest, Jeffery has a point (in the statement about some people correcting the originals).  There are people out there (and on here!) who believe that the KJB corrects the Greek, thus rendering the Textus Receptus to be inferior (whether they want to think so or not) to the KJB and allowing them to correct the Receptus by "reading between the lines" - which brings about some pretty strange teachings!

 

We learn oftentimes by discussing. If Jeffery begins to bash the KJB he'll be stopped, rest assured (I realize he said there was a mistake in John 14:14, but that is what we're discussing...and it won't go any further.  :icon_smile: )

 

I don't get your reference to Crislam, though...

 

Yes, I know HC.  I meet them on Facebook all the time.  That is the main reason why I am not posting on there, as much.  I forgot to say that the KJV is for the English speaking people.  Thanks for saying that.

Yes, he does have a point.  I do see some of the strange teachings, when people "read between the lines" from IFB's, as well.  Please correct me if I ever do that.  I am still learning, and I do appreciate your knowledge... as you have been IFB longer than me.

Jeffrey and I are on good terms.  He is my brother in Christ.  I just wish he would go back to the IFB.  He is very strong, and I believe the IFB needs more people like Jeffrey.  Believe me when I say, if I can go from the RCC straight to the IFB (with a bit charismatic teaching along the way, that assured me of my salvation) then anyone can.   

I must not have read what he said in John 14:14.  Ooops.

Yes, we all need to beware of Chrislam or is it spelled "Crislam?" 

Edited by candlelight

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Yes, we all need to beware of Chrislam or is it spelled "Crislam?" 

I think it's with an /h/ - I misspelled it.  Oops! 

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I think it's with an /h/ - I misspelled it.  Oops! 

No prOBlem.  I just wanted to make sure that I was spelling it correctly.  

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It appears that some folks on this forum still miss the point of the KJB "correcting" the originals.

 

It doubt anyone (I could be wrong because I don't read anything these folks write anyway) actually believes the 1611 KJB is more accurate than the directly inspired originals provided by God to Moses, the Prophets, the Apostles, etc.

 

The missed points are twofold: #1 Noone living has ever seen nor read an "original" text in hebrew or greek. These are copies of copies or rewrites times a multitude from the actual "originals".

 

#2. Noone who thinks they understand the greek to read these copies of copies has any true clue to what the ancient greek meanings actually were. They only have loose guesses of modern greek translations they attempt to apply.

 

It still amazes me to see men quote the "greek copy of copies" with their modern quessicon translations with authority, as if they know they are right- it is sadly laughable to me.

 

The real point is this folks. Do you have God's complete Word in the KJB or not. This is simply a matter of faith.  And without faith it is impossible to please Him. And without His Word we would have never heard of Him. So your faith better FIRST be in His Word or you have have no faith.

 

think about it.

Edited by wretched

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CL and Luanne,
Just to clarify, I am not anti- KJV, I more or less have a prOBlem with Peter Ruckman, Sam Gipps of the world. If a brother/sister in Christ wants to use the KJV, great! I also believe that other translations are profitable. That's why I have Augustine's quote in my signature.( BTW . I found that quote in the transcription of the translators of the KJB)
Out if the 7 Bibles I own at home, 4 of them are KJ, a Scofield, an Open BibLe,Thompson chain reference and a huuuuge Bible that was given to us on my wife's and I wedding day.
I also own an NIV, ESV and a NLT. At our church we corporately use an ESV, which my old IFB church switched to a few years before I left.

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Sorry, wretched - I went to school near PBI and had to deal with a number of the students...AND family members who were taught and believed the double inspiration doctrine.  I know what they say - about reading between the lines and correcting the Greek. False doctrines and some really egregious ideas have come from it.

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