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Dorightchristians - King James Onlyism Before Peter Ruckman


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#41 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 08:17 AM

Yeah, that doesn't seem very cool. Bringing in  people to speak at the pulpit who don't believe isn't the smartest thing to do.

 

 

The reason the Muslims believe this is that, is because a true Muslim has to learn Arabic to "properly learn Islam"( told to me from a Muslim). you can read a Koran in English, but then, it is not a true Koran. you must read it in Arabic.( that comment makes me think of Sam Gipp's comment)

Our Scripture is in different languages and translation because our own language has transformed through the years. the word gay is a good example. If somebody was happy when I was a child, they were in a gay mood. If i was to say that today, I would probably get asked out by a fellow co-worker.

 

Right.  Hmmm.  I have never heard a Muslim say that before.   

Your comment about our language being transformed through the years reminds me of Darwin.  You see our Bible as evolving, which I don't.  You have heard it said that God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow.  I don't accept MV's, b/c they are very watered down.  You even said so with the word, gay.  The world has transformed that word from sodomite to gay.  Our language is very dumbed down, and keeps heading that way.  Our Bible has been dumbed down to fit the world.  God isn't supposed to fit the world.      



#42 Jeffrey

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:31 AM

Right. Hmmm. I have never heard a Muslim say that before.
Your comment about our language being transformed through the years reminds me of Darwin. You see our Bible as evolving, which I don't. You have heard it said that God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I don't accept MV's, b/c they are very watered down. You even said so with the word, gay. The world has transformed that word from sodomite to gay. Our language is very dumbed down, and keeps heading that way. Our Bible has been dumbed down to fit the world. God isn't supposed to fit the world.

Right. Hmmm. I have never heard a Muslim say that before.
Your comment about our language being transformed through the years reminds me of Darwin. You see our Bible as evolving, which I don't. You have heard it said that God's word is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. I don't accept MV's, b/c they are very watered down. You even said so with the word, gay. The world has transformed that word from sodomite to gay. Our language is very dumbed down, and keeps heading that way. Our Bible has been dumbed down to fit the world. God isn't supposed to fit the world.

God's word is the same, yes. But the English language has evolved and changes with time. Slang, saying, all alter during the years, decades and centuries. I wouldn't count the English language as God's chosen language.

Edited by Jeffrey, 16 June 2014 - 09:33 AM.


#43 HappyChristian

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:42 AM

No, English isn't God's chosen language.  But the language of the  King James has not been improved upon over the years...it is still the most poetic, beautiful version.  And the one which this site stands by as the Word of God for English-speaking people (just a little reminder...).

 

God's Word. Preserved as promised (for English speakers in the KJB). Not double inspired.



#44 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:46 AM

God's word is the same, yes. But the English language has evolved and changes with time. Slang, saying, all alter during the years, decades and centuries. I wouldn't count the English language as God's chosen language.

 

I would certainly agree with you that the English language evolves, Jeffrey.  That is the point I am trying to make.  You are correct.  English isn't God's chosen language.  However, if proper English (which the KJV includes) continues to be dumbed down, then we are in big trouble.  We are already.  It isn't just Muslims that have a problem with Christianity and Modern Versions of the Bible, it is many people who are unsaved.  Do you know the history of Wescott and Hort, with the MV's? 



#45 Jeffrey

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:52 AM

After reading Calvin and Matthew Henry, all was written before 1611, none of those books, especially Henry's book, written in English, was in the Victorian style of literature.
Just thought of this, Calvin wrote Institutes in Latin, but Henry's work still stands.

#46 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:53 AM

After reading Calvin and Matthew Henry, all was written before 1611, none of those books, especially Henry's book, written in English, was in the Victorian style of literature.
Just thought of this, Calvin wrote Institutes in Latin, but Henry's work still stands.

 

You didn't answer my question, Jeffrey.  You turned this conversation into Calvinism.  Once again, "Have you ever read about Wescott and Hort."



#47 Jeffrey

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:57 AM

Never read Wescott and Hort, I don't care what Muslims think, we have the truth.
What does this mean?
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.?

#48 Jeffrey

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 09:59 AM

And I'm not bring up "Calvinism", I used him as an example. Why are you so afraid of something if you don't agree with it? If you have the truth, them you have nothing to fear!

#49 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:14 AM

Never read Wescott and Hort, I don't care what Muslims think, we have the truth.
What does this mean?
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.?

 

I would suggest that you read the works of these men regarding the Modern Versions, Jeffrey.  And, Muslims are God's creation. They need the gospel just like anyone else.  MV's are the main reason that they vehemently have a problem with Christianity.  When I witness to them, I always use the KJV.  However, b/c they are blind, like all lost people, they can't see the truth b/c they are being witnessed to be Christians who use MV's.  Do you see the confusion?  You know who the author of confusion is.  I know I don't have to tell you that.

 

 

And I'm not bring up "Calvinism", I used him as an example. Why are you so afraid of something if you don't agree with it? If you have the truth, them you have nothing to fear!

 

It seems like Calvinism is always used as an example on OB.  LOL!  I am not afraid of something that I don't agree with, brother.  Yes, I have the truth, in the KJV, and I am ever so grateful that God directed me toward's His perfect word.    However, I do think that you should know where the Modern Versions of the Bible started.  That is all.    



#50 EKSmith

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:35 AM

Satan is author of all the so called modern bibles turning Gods Holly Word into lies and leading the lost to believe such lies and away from the truths of Gods Word to salvation.

Many believe Satan's lie that it is easier to understand the newer modern versions and its many false doctrines taking away from the truths of Gods Holly Word leading many to Hell.

 

Those whom follow after Satan's Lies needs to take off the blinders of Satan in darkness and be transformed into the light of truth Jesus Christ our Lord and savior.

 

KJB ONLY! setting me free from the many lies and deceptions of Satan.

 

 

The day that I was saved I ask the lord to lead me from deceptions and keep me safe in His Word and that day He gave me a KJB through my Dad and for 37 years God has been faithful to me in keeping what I ask of Him by me trusting Him in His Holly Word. I seldom read anything written by man and when I do I compare it with Gods Word the  KJB  rejecting any untruths that does not hold firmly in line to Gods Word given to me the KJB.

 

I reject the lies of Satan and his many false bibles today and of many years pasted and hold firmly to The truths of Gods Word giving to us the'' King James Bible''.


Edited by EKSmith, 16 June 2014 - 11:12 AM.


#51 HappyChristian

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:42 AM

Actually, Jeffrey didn't bring up Calvinism. He mentioned Calvin's writings as re: the style of language.  So...(and I don't think he was saying he didn't care about those who are Muslim...but rather that he didn't care what they think about our Bible/versions/etc...).  Not defending or siding with anyone - just trying to stave off a rabbit trail argument I sense brewing... :clapping:

 

FWIW, Jeffrey, most people who believe the KJB to be the Bible for English-speaking peoples aren't afraid.  Just weary of constantly having to explain and explain.  While our language has indeed changed, we still know - or can find out - the meanings of words which have changed over time. 

 

As a matter of fact, it is good for people to have to think and research and look up words. It actually encourages scholarship and study - at least, it would if we were not living in a society in which everything has become "easier."

 

However, straitened still means restricted... ;)



#52 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:50 AM

Actually, Jeffrey didn't bring up Calvinism. He mentioned Calvin's writings as re: the style of language.  So...(and I don't think he was saying he didn't care about those who are Muslim...but rather that he didn't care what they think about our Bible/versions/etc...).  Not defending or siding with anyone - just trying to stave off a rabbit trail argument I sense brewing... :clapping:

 

FWIW, Jeffrey, most people who believe the KJB to be the Bible for English-speaking peoples aren't afraid.  Just weary of constantly having to explain and explain.  While our language has indeed changed, we still know - or can find out - the meanings of words which have changed over time. 

 

As a matter of fact, it is good for people to have to think and research and look up words. It actually encourages scholarship and study - at least, it would if we were not living in a society in which everything has become "easier."

 

However, straitened still means restricted... ;)

 
Sorry, LuAnne.  I didn't catch that.  I am just so tired of hearing about Calvinism on an IFB site.  Once again, I came to OB under the assumption that it was an IFB site.  I will say again, that I enjoy when people come to OB to learn more about IFB's, but those who are pushing Calvinism on this site, day in and day out, makes me grow weary.

Jeffrey, below is an article that will show you what Wescott and Hort believed.  Included in the article are their actual words, not words made up by IFB's.  Note what was said about Darwinism.

http://www.1611kingj...cott_hort.html/



#53 HappyChristian

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 10:53 AM

Okay - but let's leave aside talk about Calvinism right now, okay?  Once again, he didn't bring it up... :peek:



#54 Jeffrey

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:14 AM

Okay - but let's leave aside talk about Calvinism right now, okay?  Once again, he didn't bring it up... :peek:

Thanks Luanne, that was my point of bringing up, um, you know who.
CL, the Muslims I have witnessed to have a real problem with Jesus, they get angry when I tell them that He is God incarnate. They flip out and get angry, that is their problem. And you are absolutely correct, they need The Lord In a bad way. They are a very devout people who are falsely led to worship Satan. It does bother me to see that.

Back to my other question, what does this verse mean?
Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels.

#55 John81

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:22 AM

Islam teaches that Jesus was a great prophet, not the Son of God. They also teach that Muhammad was the greatest prophet, which naturally places Jesus as a lesser prophet than Muhammad. Their teaching also says that Jesus didn't die upon the cross.

 

If the discussion with a Muslim gets stuck at this point then there is no point going further and no use to continue on with them. Pray the Lord will soften their hearts, open their understanding and send someone to them at the right time to share the Gospel with them.



#56 wretched

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 11:28 AM

The Holy Spirit is the saving agent that uses the Scriptures, but without the Holy Spirit, it's all for naught.

 

Agreed



#57 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:05 PM

Sorry for the delay, Jeffrey.  I got a phone call, as you asked me this question.  Actually, I didn't know if you wanted me to answer it.

"Ye are not straitened in us, but ye are straitened in your own bowels." ~ II Corinthians 6:12

 

That verse is talking about Biblical separation.  Christians are to be holy, not conformed to this world.  In this chapter, the Apostle Paul is talking to the church at Corinth.



#58 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:13 PM

Islam teaches that Jesus was a great prophet, not the Son of God. They also teach that Muhammad was the greatest prophet, which naturally places Jesus as a lesser prophet than Muhammad. Their teaching also says that Jesus didn't die upon the cross.

 

If the discussion with a Muslim gets stuck at this point then there is no point going further and no use to continue on with them. Pray the Lord will soften their hearts, open their understanding and send someone to them at the right time to share the Gospel with them.

 
After much prayer, I had to let go of a Muslim that I was witnessing to on Facebook, John.  He is a year older than my son.  He was engaged to a young girl, worldly like himself, but his mother didn't approve of her (many Muslims are atheist and agnostic.  He was agnostic). Anyway, he had to break off his engagement to her awhile back.  He is now engaged to a woman, his mother has arranged for him to marry.  She is a very devout Muslim.  I watched his Timeline and his conversations with her.  I believe he is now following Islam.  I am bathing the issue in prayer. 



#59 HappyChristian

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:20 PM

Because of the discussion of Muslims, I wanted to post this information.  There is a man by the name of Monthir Abdullatif who was reared Muslim.  He has written a book (it is not very long)  called From Darkness Into Light.  Here is the blurb about it:

 

 

A man who lived in the darkness of religious traditions,

practicing rituals and duties imposed by his religion, tried
with all his efforts to reach to the deepest of divine
Majesty. However, piety and sophism lead to nothingness,
and that man remained lost in the waves of deceptive
religiosity, trying to worship an unknown god, deprived of
the love and the compassion of the real God.
 
Suddenly, the divine light shined in the horizon of his
existence to lead him to the heavenly truth. It was an
encounter between a desperate, miserable man and the
One that calms down those that labor and are of heavy
laden, the Living Christ.
 
Darkness came to an end, and the myth of the fathers’ and
forefathers’ religion expired, so that the truth of salvation
could begin through the man’s placing himself in the palm
of the redeemer, Christ, the prince of life.
 
It is a story of a life. . . it is a story of a destiny.

Interestingly enough, the Koran showed him the truth of Christ.  Yep, that's what he said (of course, he does not recommend it!).  He lists the parts of the Koran that showed him that they do, indeed, talk about the virgin birth of Christ, etc. That and other parts of the Koran gave him a thirst to find Christ. He did and he now ministers to Muslims.  

 

It is an excellent book to get to give to Muslims you know who may be even a wee bit receptive.

 

Find it at Bethel  Baptist Print Ministry (a ministry of Bethel Baptist Church in London, Ontario)..

 

http://www.bethelbaptist.ca/  I couldn't find the book on there, but emailed them and they answered me right away that they do print it still. I'm waiting on a response as to how to find it on their site. Will update this when I know for sure.



#60 candlelight

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Posted 16 June 2014 - 12:29 PM

Because of the discussion of Muslims, I wanted to post this information.  There is a man by the name of Monthir Abdullatif who was reared Muslim.  He has written a book (it is not very long)  called From Darkness Into Light.  Here is the blurb about it:

 

Interestingly enough, the Koran showed him the truth of Christ.  Yep, that's what he said (of course, he does not recommend it!).  He lists the parts of the Koran that showed him that they do, indeed, talk about the virgin birth of Christ, etc. That and other parts of the Koran gave him a thirst to find Christ. He did and he now ministers to Muslims.  

 

It is an excellent book to get to give to Muslims you know who may be even a wee bit receptive.

 

Find it at Bethel  Baptist Print Ministry (a ministry of Bethel Baptist Church in London, Ontario)..

 

http://www.bethelbaptist.ca/  I couldn't find the book on there, but emailed them and they answered me right away that they do print it still. I'm waiting on a response as to how to find it on their site. Will update this when I know for sure.

 

Thanks for the recommendation, HC.  It sounds like a wonderful book.  Yes, the Qur'an does show a Muslim who Jesus Christ is.  As with many who get saved, when God brings you to the bottom of self, your religion of your birth will reveal to you who Jesus Christ actually is.  The RCC also revealed to me who Jesus is.






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