Jump to content

Photo

Which Comes First, The Messiah Or The Temple? - The Temple Institute


  • Please log in to reply
60 replies to this topic

#1 beameup

beameup

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 697 posts
169
Excellent

Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:31 PM

The Temple Institute has already recreated all the implements for the temple, including the clothes of the priests, and has trained the priests for the daily Temple ceremonies. 

As well, they have at least created the "corner stone" (if not the entire temple), and architectural blueprints and computer models.  As well, the Sanhedrin has reformed.

 

 

The Performance of the Torah's Commandments Does Not Depend Upon the Messiah

 

There are no Biblical verses that make a connection between the building of the Holy Temple and the arrival of the messiah. The building of the Holy Temple is a commandment that is binding upon all of Israel to fulfill, in every generation.

 

But it must be noted that there is a difference between the commandments that Israel are obliged to perform, and the prophecies referring to the appearance of the messiah. The prophecies are a Divine promise; a heavenly revelation concerning the appearance of the redeemer in the end of days.

 

Nothing can ever change that Divine promise. However it is important to understand that the arrival of the messiah is not dependent on anything other than the will of G-d alone. He shall fulfill His promise at the time that He deems fit.

 

In fact, if there really is a question as to "Which comes first, the messiah or the Temple," there seems to be ample indication that the building of the Holy Temple will precede the messiah's arrival.

https://www.templein...siah_temple.htm


Edited by beameup, 17 June 2014 - 08:52 PM.


#2 No Nicolaitans

No Nicolaitans

    ♫ The B-I-B-L-E...yes, that's the book for me. ♫

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,491 posts
1,267
Excellent

Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:36 PM

Well, that temple will come before Christ, but...

 

The Messiah, Jesus Christ will erect his own temple during the Millennium (Zechariah 6:12-13). 

 

I guess they missed those verses when they said there are no verses in scripture that connects the arrival of the Messiah to the building of the temple...


Edited by No Nicolaitans, 17 June 2014 - 08:43 PM.


#3 beameup

beameup

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 697 posts
169
Excellent

Posted 17 June 2014 - 08:54 PM

Well, that temple will come before Christ, but...

 

The Messiah, Jesus Christ will erect his own temple during the Millennium (Zechariah 6:12-13). 

 

I guess they missed those verses when they said there are no verses in scripture that connects the arrival of the Messiah to the building of the temple...

banah - to build, rebuild, establish, cause to continue

 

I think the Sanhedrin is pretty good at understanding the (Hebrew) Masoretic Text.

 

 

"For suddenly the master whom you are seeking will come to his sanctuary."  from Malachi 3:1

Of course, we all know this will actually be the Antichrist.


Edited by beameup, 17 June 2014 - 09:02 PM.


#4 MountainChristian

MountainChristian

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationMountains of North Carolina

Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:02 PM

Their eye is darkened because they reject Jesus. 



#5 OLD fashioned preacher

OLD fashioned preacher

    Termite in a yoyo

  • Moderators
  • 1,938 posts
773
Excellent
  • Locationunder a rock, but crawl out occasionally

Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:24 PM

 

 

I think the Sanhedrin is pretty good at understanding the (Hebrew) Masoretic Text.

 

 

Is that why they got upset with Paul for believing in a resurrection?



#6 Genevanpreacher

Genevanpreacher

    Seeker of God's Wisdom

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,147 posts
284
Excellent
  • LocationIndiana, USA

Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:28 PM

This is laughable.

The site is not even professional looking.

As for the Sanhedrin. Lost is lost is lost... 



#7 beameup

beameup

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 697 posts
169
Excellent

Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:29 PM

Is that why they got upset with Paul for believing in a resurrection?

Pretty Sad-you-see.

 

 

Here is a very interesting paragraph:

 

Our sages understand this seeming contradiction to indicate that both visions are essentially correct - and that anything is possible. Perhaps when the messiah arrives, grandeur and splendor will accompany his appearance. Alternatively, perhaps he will come in a quiet and unassuming fashion. The Talmud indicates that much of this depends upon Israel: If they are deemed worthy and deserving, he will arrive in a grand manner to befit their status; if not, the opposite is true (Sanhedrin 98:A).

Everything is prepared except the open space on the Temple Mount. 

What will the "Replacement Theologians" (Covenant Theologians) say when the sacrifices start?


Edited by beameup, 17 June 2014 - 09:33 PM.


#8 No Nicolaitans

No Nicolaitans

    ♫ The B-I-B-L-E...yes, that's the book for me. ♫

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,491 posts
1,267
Excellent

Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:30 PM

I think the Sanhedrin is pretty good at understanding the (Hebrew) Masoretic Text.

 

I'm sure they are, but their comprehension of the text is skewed by the Talmud that they hold so dear.

 

Their eye is darkened because they reject Jesus. 

 

...and one reason is that they let the writings of the rabbis (the Talmud) explain what the Bible says rather than letting the Bible say what it says...



#9 No Nicolaitans

No Nicolaitans

    ♫ The B-I-B-L-E...yes, that's the book for me. ♫

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,491 posts
1,267
Excellent

Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:33 PM

This is laughable.

The site is not even professional looking.

As for the Sanhedrin. Lost is lost is lost... 

 

That really is their site, and it's actually a very good source for information.



#10 Genevanpreacher

Genevanpreacher

    Seeker of God's Wisdom

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,147 posts
284
Excellent
  • LocationIndiana, USA

Posted 17 June 2014 - 09:39 PM

Pretty Sad-you-see.

 

 

Here is a very interesting paragraph:

Everything is prepared except the open space on the Temple Mount. 

What will the "Replacement Theologians" (Covenant Theologians) say when the sacrifices start?

 

If it happens, the world will just rejoice?

 

:runforhills:



#11 MountainChristian

MountainChristian

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 533 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationMountains of North Carolina

Posted 17 June 2014 - 10:15 PM

I've always thought the Devil would help them build this temple and in return they would accept he is christ. 



#12 candlelight

candlelight

    Super Contributor

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,358 posts
747
Excellent

Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:59 AM

I'm sure they are, but their comprehension of the text is skewed by the Talmud that they hold so dear.

 

 

...and one reason is that they let the writings of the rabbis (the Talmud) explain what the Bible says rather than letting the Bible say what it says...

 

While I agree with this, there is a Jewish sect that lives in Arab countries.  They hold only to Torah.  They believe the Talmud is man-made and they are correct.  I laugh when I hear what they say, b/c even though they are unsaved, and only have half the Bible, they sound like IFB's.  They say, "G-d (God) says it in His word, and I believe it."



#13 Invicta

Invicta

    Super Contributor

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,519 posts
575
Excellent
  • LocationWhitstable, Kent, England

Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:30 AM

I've always thought the Devil would help them build this temple and in return they would accept he is christ. 

 

I don't think so, I'm too old. :bleh:



#14 Invicta

Invicta

    Super Contributor

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,519 posts
575
Excellent
  • LocationWhitstable, Kent, England

Posted 18 June 2014 - 11:34 AM


 

 


Of course, we all know this will actually be the Antichrist.

 

?



#15 Covenanter

Covenanter

    Super Contributor

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,064 posts
490
Excellent
  • LocationSouthall, West London, England

Posted 18 June 2014 - 02:46 PM

Pretty Sad-you-see.

 

 

Here is a very interesting paragraph:

Everything is prepared except the open space on the Temple Mount. 

What will the "Replacement Theologians" (Covenant Theologians) say when the sacrifices start?

I don't know any "replacement theologians" - I write as a "covenant theologian." If the Israelis do build a temple, & offer sacrifices, it will be nothing to do with either prophecy or the believing people of God. It will be completely irrelevant to the purposes of God.

 

Jesus & the NT writers taught that true worship was wherever believers in Jesus met, & worship would be in Spirit & in truth. The true tremple is build with people, not with stone & wood, nor gold &silver.

 

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

 

Eph. 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21 in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

1 Peter 2:To whom coming, as unto a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, and precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ. Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: 10 which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

 

The acceptability of future temple & animal sacrifices by unbelievers is stated by Isaiah:

66:1 Thus saith the Lord,
The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me?
and where is the place of my rest?
For all those things hath mine hand made, and all those things have been, saith the Lord:
but to this man will I look, even to him that is poor and of a contrite spirit, and trembleth at my word.

He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck;
he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol.
Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

 

Stephen reminded the Sanhedrin of that Scripture. Did they understand it then? Were they, are they, pretty good at understanding the things of God?



#16 beameup

beameup

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 697 posts
169
Excellent

Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:22 PM

Who opposeth and exalteth  himself above all that is called God or worshiped as God

so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God shewing himself that he is God.  2 Thes 2:4

 

Now those who say that this has already happened are Preterists, which is a "bedfellow" of Replacement Theology.

 

A little leaven leveneth the whole lump.  Galatians 5:9


Edited by beameup, 18 June 2014 - 10:28 PM.


#17 Genevanpreacher

Genevanpreacher

    Seeker of God's Wisdom

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,147 posts
284
Excellent
  • LocationIndiana, USA

Posted 18 June 2014 - 09:58 PM

Who opposeth and exalteth  himself above all that is called God or worshiped as God

so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of God shewing himself that he is God.  2 Thes 2:4

 

Now those who say that this has already happened are Preterists, which is a "bedfellow" of Replacement Theology.

 

I am partial preterist. And I thank you need to use a better phrase than one that brings reproach with a 'sexual innuendo'.



#18 ThePilgrim

ThePilgrim

    Super Contributor

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,354 posts
695
Excellent
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:08 PM

I am partial preterist. And I thank you need to use a better phrase than one that brings reproach with a 'sexual innuendo'.

I think you misconstrued the meaning of bedfellow.

bed·fel·lownoun \-ˌfe-(ˌ)lō\

: a person or thing that is associated or connected with another

 
Full Definition of BEDFELLOW
1
:  one who shares a bed with another
2
:  associate, ally <political bedfellows>
Examples of BEDFELLOW
  1. <a child-welfare cause that has made bedfellows of activists who are normally on opposite ends of the political spectrum>
First Known Use of BEDFELLOW
15th century
Related to BEDFELLOW Synonyms abettor (also abetter), backer, ally, confederate, fellow traveler, supporter, sympathizer Related Words empathizer, well-wisher; accessory (also accessary), accomplice, coalitionist, collaborationist, collaborator; adjunct, assistant, coadjutor, helper; associate, cohort, colleague, fellow, partner; buddy, chum, companion, comrade, confidant, crony, familiar, friend, intimate, mate,   God bless, Larry

#19 Genevanpreacher

Genevanpreacher

    Seeker of God's Wisdom

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,147 posts
284
Excellent
  • LocationIndiana, USA

Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:11 PM

In our day it is a rude sounding phrase, esp with sodomites running rampant.

This is also not just my opinion, others have related this to me about people on here using that term.



#20 ThePilgrim

ThePilgrim

    Super Contributor

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,354 posts
695
Excellent
  • LocationHillsboro, Oregon

Posted 18 June 2014 - 10:18 PM

In our day it is a rude sounding phrase, esp with sodomites running rampant.

This is also not just my opinion, others have related this to me about people on here using that term.

Maybe it's just my age, but I have never thought of it in those terms.  :scratchchin:
 

 

God bless,

Larry






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

The Fundamental Top 500IFB1000 The Fundamental Top 500