John Calvin Had It All Wrong

339 posts in this topic

Posted

One more check to see if anyone else has insight.

 

1 Timothy 4:10

 

John 1:11-13

 

I asked about these verses, in separate postings, and I received one response to each (thank you Mike and Covenanter).

 

Does anyone else have anything to share about how either of these verses are to be understood and how they apply (or not) to this topic?

 

Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 

 

 

Jesus saying he died for the sheep does not mean he did not die for all men. 

 

If I say I love my children, does that mean I hate all other children?

 

This is reading Calvinism into scripture when it is not there. 

mkrishna and Miss Daisy like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

 

11  I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12  But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13  The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14  I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15  As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16  And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one 

 

2 sheep here:

 

"THE sheep"-that's everyone, the world

 

"MY sheep", those that are of Christ's flock.

 

I keep sheep, and goats, but there are other sheep that aren't mine.

 

Jesus died for ALL sheep, yet only some become part of His flock. 

 

And please, don't anyone bring up the sheep and the goats judgment, because then I will bring up that the sheep there weren't born again, because they are judged on their works, not thier relationship to Christ.  I will also metion that goats in the OT are one of the holy animals before the Lord, and in some cases, like the Passover feast, they are interchangable with the lamb. Technically, Jesus COULD be considered the Passover Goat Kid of God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

have any of you taken time to read Brother Ricks's teaching 'trampling through the tulips"?

 

It is done in a way he is not trying to offend I would haver called it "tip toeing through the tulips".  Just Joking of course.

 

It is very informative

 

Go here to read it.  '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

Edited by AVBibleBeliever

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

have any of you taken time to read Brother Ricks's teaching 'trampling through the tulips"?

 

It is done in a way he is not trying to offend I would haver called it "tip toeing through the tulips".  Just Joking of course.

 

It is very informative

 

Go here to read it.  '?do=embed' frameborder='0' data-embedContent>>

I had lots of friendly conversations with Rick - last heard rejoicing in the birth of their 4th baby.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

 

Covenanter, on 28 Jul 2014 - 11:26 AM, said:snapback.png

Our church begins our Holiday Bible Club at 1 p.m. today. It will run all week. Previous years we have up to 70 children, mostly from non-Christian families.

It went very well, with the Gospel of Jesus preached to a total of 76 children (& many parents) through the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt. Lots of enthusiastic singing. e.g.

God is a Holy God,

we can't be friends because of our sin.

Jesus died to cleanse our sin; when we put our trust in him,

God opens his arms & welcomes us in.

It's not on Youtube.

 

About 15 of the youngsters are regulars in the church, & we are reinforcing the message with the memory texts & songs. Some parents come with younger children to our "Stay & play" morning.

 

And mid week we had news from a Christian camp in Wales that one of our youngsters had come to repentance & faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. He gave his testimony in the church on Sunday.

 

Please pray for Ezekiel (13) & his godly mother, Lisa & his younger brother Elijah.

 

12 years ago, the church was reduced to fewer than 10 elderly English, who were unable to reach out. Pastor ROBin is a Pakistani believer who came with the support of the "home missions" of our group of churches. About six years ago he married a converted Sikh. Our congregation now is 30-40, including children.

 

Do "Calvinism" & Reformed doctrine hinder our outreach & service? I hope you agree that they do NOT.

Edited by Covenanter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Hello Ian

 

Great news about that young Person,

 

Would that camp be at the CCIW camps?

 

Some of our members go to a later one at CCIW and this year they are going on the 17th August.  One coupl;e are in charge of all the catering for the camp and last year they catered for about 120 including helpers.  Our back hall is filled with cans of food, etc and the feeezer is full with meat.  The camp is somewhat remote and they have to take all the food with them.  They spent all last week cooking and they were continuing today.  Some of our younger members are also going as tent leaders.

 

My two eldest grandchildren were helping on a beach mission at Lyme Regis for the last two weeks.  The local council tried to stop them but after discussions have given them permission to continue for three years then they will review the situation.

 

Their mum, my daughter; has gone to Folkestone today to help with a camp at Grace Baptist Church, Folkestone. 

Covenanter likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I think that's the camp, Invicta. These evangelical inter-church activities are encouraging.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

It went very well, with the Gospel of Jesus preached to a total of 76 children (& many parents) through the deliverance of the Israelites from Egypt. Lots of enthusiastic singing. e.g.

God is a Holy God,

we can't be friends because of our sin.

Jesus died to cleanse our sin; when we put our trust in him,

God opens his arms & welcomes us in.

It's not on Youtube.

 

About 15 of the youngsters are regulars in the church, & we are reinforcing the message with the memory texts & songs. Some parents come with younger children to our "Stay & play" morning.

 

And mid week we had news from a Christian camp in Wales that one of our youngsters had come to repentance & faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. He gave his testimony in the church on Sunday.

 

Please pray for Ezekiel (13) & his godly mother, Lisa & his younger brother Elijah.

 

12 years ago, the church was reduced to fewer than 10 elderly English, who were unable to reach out. Pastor ROBin is a Pakistani believer who came with the support of the "home missions" of our group of churches. About six years ago he married a converted Sikh. Our congregation now is 30-40, including children.

 

Do "Calvinism" & Reformed doctrine hinder our outreach & service? I hope you agree that they do NOT.

I saw the camp leaflet this morning (at our prayer meeting) & noticed the Chaplain was Matthew Jones, Elder at the church attended by one of my sons. Wall Heath Evangelical Free Church.

 

May these special occasions & camps be blessed by the salvation of many.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Have the "anti-calvinists" no comment on our Gospel outreach, & no rejoicing in a sinner saved?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

The discussion was about the false doctrines, not the bits you might get right.
Even the Catholics get some doctrines right.

If you want a competition then you have come to the wrong place.

Especially right now as my son just came back from a definitely non-calvinist trip where far more than one was saved.

That in itself doesn't prove a doctrine right or wrong.

If you actually wanted people to rejoice over it, you would have put it in the soul winning section........

By putting it here, you are using it as propaganda. ......

But, praise God if he did get saved. If he did it was because of the preaching of the Gospel, not the preaching of Calvinism.

Miss Daisy and heartstrings like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I had wanted to say this earlier but I held my tongue but now you asked for an anti-calvinist to comment and here goes.

 

Number or activity does not prove the truth of any system of Theology.  Gain is not th evidence of godliness as some would want us to think.  Large ministries prove nothing. 

 

2Cor 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.   And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.   Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

 

PrOBably not what you wanted to hear and at the same time it is what you were expecting to hear.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever
Miss Daisy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Also, the number of popular teachers in a certain theology does not make it true. There are a number of popular preachers who hold to Calvinism, and people basically get the theology by listening to them or reading their books, not from the Bible. We need to throw out our creeds and have the Bible as the ONLY authority.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

I wasn't being contentious - just sharing. We may disagree on various points of doctrine, but we hold to Jesus Christ as Lord & Saviour.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Benny Hinn uses a King James Bible, has the plan of salvation outlned on his website, and claims Jesus Christ is Savior, and preaches on ''the blood''.

 

My Jesus created all things, tasted death for every man, is willing that all should come to repentence, is not willing that any should perish, and he did not create a single person to burn in Hell for the ''glory'' of it..

DaveW likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Also, the number of popular teachers in a certain theology does not make it true. There are a number of popular preachers who hold to Calvinism, and people basically get the theology by listening to them or reading their books, not from the Bible. We need to throw out our creeds and have the Bible as the ONLY authority.

fully agreed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Benny Hinn uses a King James Bible, has the plan of salvation outlned on his website, and claims Jesus Christ is Savior, and preaches on ''the blood''.

 

My Jesus created all things, tasted death for every man, is willing that all should come to repentence, is not willing that any should perish, and he did not create a single person to burn in Hell for the ''glory'' of it..

And what is your point exactly?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A response to Covenanter's last post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

A full understanding of Scripture is not required for one to be saved. Thanks be to God for that! We must believe that Jesus is the Son of God, come in the flesh, died and resurrected to pay for our sins. With our heart we believe, with our mouth we confess.

 

God made salvation very easy.

 

Our view of various other matters, which most often are come to after salvation, don't necessarily prove or disprove one being saved or lost.

Alimantado and Covenanter like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

No, but it's possible to believe in another "Jesus" as in 2 Corinthians 11:3-4

 

Benny Hinn has the wrong Jesus and so do the teachers of a Jesus who didn't die for everyone. Sorry; wrong Jesus.

DaveW likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

There is a vast difference between believing the Gospel of Christ and being saved, and having differing views of what Scripture means.

 

I can believe you are a good man who loves your family while at the same time come to think you are a goat kicker and whether or not I'm right about the goat kicking doesn't change the fact I know the you who is a good man who loves your family.

 

The majority of folks I know who were born again had little understanding of the Bible and little knowledge of Jesus beyond the Gospel that was presented to them. It was after salvation that they read the Word, studied the Word, attended church and from there formed their doctrinal views.

 

There is no doubt that the night I was saved if someone had come up to me after I was born again and asked me about a point of Calvinism or Arminianism, or some other point on this spectrum, I wouldn't have had a clue what they were talking about or known who was right or wrong.

 

While what little I know of Benny Hinn I'm pretty sure I'm in disagreement with, but as to whether he's saved or not, I don't know near enough to even hazard a guess.

 

One thing I do know, there are many folks I have no doubt they are saved even though they hold to differing, sometimes very differing views, on various aspects of Scripture. One can speculate and debate how born again Christians can come to different views on any number of issues but that doesn't change the fact saved people can hold different understandings of things yet they are still saved. All of this is part of living in a fallen world where none of us will know perfection or be in perfect accord.

Alimantado and Covenanter like this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Ah yes but John we are not talking about individuals, but about doctrines.

What you say may be right about an individual, but a doctrine MUST BE CORRECT.

If a teaching is wrong, whether or not the one teaching it is saved, that teaching is wrong.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Covenantor, how do you know the kid is one of God's "elect", according to Calvinism, he wouldn't know until he died whether he was saved from hell or not. Calvinism is of man, not God.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

Covenantor, how do you know the kid is one of God's "elect", according to Calvinism, he wouldn't know until he died whether he was saved from hell or not. Calvinism is of man, not God.

He believes & confesses Jesus as Lord & Saviour.

 

Your misunderstanding of "calvinism" has NOTHING to do with the Gospel of salvation & Christian living.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted

How about you actually answer the question.
How DOES one know if they are elect?

After all, that is far closer to the actual theme of this thread than your propaganda.

Miss Daisy likes this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now