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In War Terrible Things Happen


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#1 ThePilgrim

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 09:39 AM

An airliner getting shot down over a war zone is a terrible thing, but who's fault is it? 

I have my opinion and it doesn't agree with the opinion of 99% of the people I know.  I have decided to keep my opinion to myself until this thing is fairly investigated and the true reason this happened is determined.  A fair investigation would be a good thing but judging from the various media and government statements heard so far I don't think there will be a fair investigation.

All that said the truth probably not be known for at least fifty years.

 

But here is one fellas opinion: http://suomensotilas...rresponsibility

 

God bless,

Larry



#2 Alimantado

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 10:00 AM

An airliner getting shot down over a war zone is a terrible thing, but who's fault is it? I have my opinion and it doesn't agree with the opinion of 99% of the people I know.

 

The Icelandic?



#3 John81

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:39 AM

I read an interesting article last night about the possibility Ukrainian forces were trying to shoot down Putin's plane. They showed side-by-side pictures of both types of planes and they are similar. I don't recall the details but it was surmised they had reason to believe Putin might be flying nearby and was eager to take him out at any cost; including the cost of haste and a costly mistake.

 

At the same time, I've also read articles trying to blame separatists Ukrainians, the Russians, and even the possibility of an unknown player (possibly terrorist related) looking to inflame the conflict.

 

Had the EU and America not fomented internal discord in Ukraine with the intent of seeing the legally elected Ukrainian president ousted from office, which resulted in what amounts to a coup and near civil war, this incident likely never would have occurred.

 

The West only likes democracy when everything goes their way. If someone gets legally and democratically elected that doesn't tow their line, then suddenly they have no problem with the idea of overthrowing the will of the people.



#4 Invicta

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 11:43 AM

There was a report on the late news last night that credit cards belonging to some of the Britons killed had been used since the downing.  I did not hear that repeated today.



#5 John81

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 12:08 PM

Last night I saw a news report which stated people were showing up and going through all the stuff from the downed plane even while the plane and bodies were still smoldering. The reporter said people were walking through and among body parts and going through stuff of the dead still strapped to their seats.

 

Some people view war as an opportunity to try and enrich oneself.



#6 Covenanter

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 03:21 PM

I thought the thread would be about Gaza .....



#7 John81

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 07:24 PM

Gaza is just another case of man waging war with death and destruction all around.



#8 John81

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 08:03 PM

Just did some web surfing and was amazed at how many people are pointing to what's going on with this current battle between Israel and the Pals. I saw posting after posting, blogs and commentaries all pulling Scripture out of context to declare in no uncertain terms that those verses fit exactly what's going on right now. Afterward many put forth their "expert" opinion upon just what it all means and what other verses of Scripture will be in play next.

 

These wild speculations have been going on for decades with each incident that has anything to do with Israel. Every time an Israeli and an Arab have a fender bender someone finds Scripture to fit that incident and make apocalyptic predictions.



#9 DaveW

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 08:48 PM

Rather than argue a totally separate issue here, why not start a thread and leave this one about the current airliner disaster?

#10 ThePilgrim

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Posted 19 July 2014 - 10:19 PM

TEN QUESTIONS FOR THE UKRAINIAN AUTHORITIES

1. Immediately after the tragedy, the Ukrainian authorities, naturally, blamed it on the self-defense forces. What are these accusations based on?

2. Can Kiev explain in detail how it uses Buk missile launchers in the conflict zone? And why were these systems deployed there in the first place, seeing as the self-defense forces don’t have any planes?

3. Why are the Ukrainian authorities not doing anything to set up an international commission? When will such a commission begin its work?

4. Would the Ukrainian Armed Forces be willing to let international investigators see the inventory of their air-to-air and surface-to-air missiles, including those used in SAM launchers?

5. Will the international commission have access to tracking data from reliable sources regarding the movements of Ukrainian warplanes on the day of the tragedy?

6. Why did Ukrainian air traffic controllers allow the plane to deviate from the regular route to the north, towards “the anti-terrorist operation zone”?

7. Why was airspace over the warzone not closed for civilian flights, especially since the area was not entirely covered by radar navigation systems?

8. How can official Kiev comment on reports in the social media, allegedly by a Spanish air traffic controller who works in Ukraine, that there were two Ukrainian military planes flying alongside the Boeing 777 over Ukrainian territory?

9. Why did Ukraine’s Security Service start working with the recordings of communications between Ukrainian air traffic controllers and the Boeing crew and with the data storage systems from Ukrainian radars without waiting for international investigators?

10. What lessons has Ukraine learned from a similar incident in 2001, when a Russian Tu-154 crashed into the Black Sea? Back then, the Ukrainian authorities denied any involvement on the part of Ukraine’s Armed Forces until irrefutable evidence proved official Kiev to be guilty.

 

http://rt.com/news/1...stions-ukraine/

 

God bless,

Larry



#11 HappyChristian

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 04:30 PM

Heh - I've also heard some people think that it's a faked crash, and that the bodies that were there were dead from other means, etc....



#12 DaveW

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 05:38 PM

Well there really are people missing - regular "unimportant people". (By this I mean people of no international consequence).
A family from an IFB church in Victoria is amongst them. I do not know the family personally but a good friend of mine does.
They were holidaying in Holland and got on a plane home and never made it here.

#13 John81

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Posted 21 July 2014 - 08:38 PM

What's really troubling is all these so-called conservatives constantly calling for action on America's part, calling for America to police the world, calling for American investigators to take over, calling for American troops to be stationed in several different countries, calling for military action in various "hot spots", yet then nearly all of them say they don't want America to get involved in war...???

 

What should have been an internal or at the most a local matter, others have turned into something much larger and now they cry because things didn't go their way.

 

Now some of these so-called conservatives are trying to tie the downing of the plane into Russian's dealings with Iran, with how America should deal with Iran, then they stretch it into including Syria and Iraq, and even the Israeli and Hamas conflict.

 

Meanwhile, thousands of illegals pour across our southern border each day. Along with these are gang members and terrorists. Instead of putting our resources into protecting our border, our government demands over a billion dollars to take care of all these people knowing full well that will lead the many more thousands running across our border looking for similar treatment.

 

If America collapses from within, will it matter much to those who are left here just which dictator is ruling in Syria or what's going on in Ukraine?

 

I am glad BO at least made a public declaration of Israel's right to defend themselves and stating that America supports them.



#14 HappyChristian

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 09:30 AM

Actually, it should matter a lot to us what's going on over there...because I believe this administration (you know, the one of the winner of the Nobel Peace Prize) is trying to position itself to champion war with Russia.  Whether it's just us, or Europe...

 

DaveW, yes, there are a lot of people missing. I was just reading about one from our area this morning.  I just posted that because it seems like every time something happens there's "proof" that it's fake. Don't get me wrong, I do believe that there are set-ups going on in areas, but I don't believe this is one...



#15 John81

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Posted 22 July 2014 - 11:53 AM

That was my point, Obama's busyness there is risking a totally unnecessary war that even if we "won" we would come out losers. Meanwhile, our most immediate threats are being ignored, worse even, they are being enhanced by this administration.

 

It's a shame we don't have men of wisdom and courage in congress to rally their fellows to confront the crisis and scandal producing president.

 

Rather off subject, but yet a small ray of light, was the judge in NY which said a father used reasonable use of force when he open handed spanked his child for cursing at an adult in a store.

 

Yet the current Administration hasn't got the wit of this judge. While publically saying Israel has a right to defend themselves (with caveats of calls for restraint thrown in) it's reported the Administration is pressuring Israel behind the scenes to show even more restraint (how much more restraint is needed when the Israelis warned civilians where they planned to hit next???) and to military actions soon.

 

We have an Administration that continually pokes the Bear with a stick, leaves the door wide open so anyone can wonder in (and then demands money to care for them) while doing what they can to hamper an ally trying to deal with terrorists.

 

What an amazing president! He can ruin the nation while never missing a fund raiser or round of golf.






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