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When Is The Church Not The Church?


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#21 Ukulelemike

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 04:01 PM

Good point uke you are on the right track, but I think your conclusion is wrong.  Because most of what we add to God's words are not of God but men.  should we allow men to help us define who and what we are?  or Should we filter it all through solid Bible first and let God define what we are?

The difficulty is in getting people saved, or getting them in the fellowship.

 

in fact, there is a pseudo-denomination that only refers to itself as 'the church'. That's great, but what are they? I agree we shouldn't have to add to ourselves a label, but labels have been added since believers were called Nazarenes, or That Way, or Christians. There has always been a need to identify the followers of Christ, and from the ones we see in the Bible, like I have mentioned above, though these were terms given by men, often as an insult, yet they were embraced and used to identify themselves, or for others to identify them. Why should we not? Men don't define us, we define ourselves-I have chosen to be called independent Fundamental Baptist because I believe the terms, while not specifically used in scripture, (except Baptist), they are biblical things.



#22 DaveW

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:21 PM

Our church building is where our church meets.
It is just down the road from the Scout hall which is where the Scouts meet.

The Scout Hall is not the Scouts even though it has Scouts written above the double entry doors. But having scour hall written on it allows people to know what is there, and allows people who are looking for scouts to find them.

Our church building is not our church even though it has church written on the wall.

#23 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:30 PM

Perhaps if one is spending a great deal of time with a person it can be determined whether they are truly exhibiting evidence of salvation or not, but when encountering people only casually or even less, it may not be possible to know, at least not for an extended period of time.

 

I know plenty of folks I believe are saved that if one had looked at them at various points of their Christian life they might not have thought they were saved.

 

At the same time I know plenty of "good Christians" who appear to be evidencing the good fruit yet they have no biblical testimony of salvation.

 

Those we are closest to we should be able to tell where their heart is. We should be much closer to our fellow, local brothers/sisters in Christ but that's typically not the case, at least in America. Many of us only see fellow church members once or twice a week and very little, if any, actual contact with them. We can't know one another under such circumstance.

That is the problem with todays fellowships they are not personal enough for people to get to know each other.

 

large fellowships in Paul's day ended with people drawing followers after themselves.

1Cor 1:10 ΒΆ Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.
 11 For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you.
 12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
 13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?

1Cor 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?

these people were comeing together having various teachings, take the Lords table in vain, and divided themselve into groups when they came together.  Not much different than today in America.

 

We have big fellowships and only know a few because we have only one leader pretty much the senior pastor ( which is unbiblical) maybe a asst or two and youth pastor while the rest of the fellowship sit on their hands and leave the work to the few when all the body is to be fit together and working as a body and it is not.

 

American Fellowships are gathered around men who are hirelings, get a salary, 401k, insurance package, some get a home and a car to drive.  and the more people they bring in the more they get.  Ever seen how John Hagee has grown in waist size since he started.  Now a days his ministry wont even give a dvd or book to a missionary who could use it for free.  that is the American fellowship.



#24 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:34 PM

The difficulty is in getting people saved, or getting them in the fellowship.

 

in fact, there is a pseudo-denomination that only refers to itself as 'the church'. That's great, but what are they? I agree we shouldn't have to add to ourselves a label, but labels have been added since believers were called Nazarenes, or That Way, or Christians. There has always been a need to identify the followers of Christ, and from the ones we see in the Bible, like I have mentioned above, though these were terms given by men, often as an insult, yet they were embraced and used to identify themselves, or for others to identify them. Why should we not? Men don't define us, we define ourselves-I have chosen to be called independent Fundamental Baptist because I believe the terms, while not specifically used in scripture, (except Baptist), they are biblical things.

Yes I have run into them and they have some way out fellowships to the point of drunken and sexual fellowships.  Stay away from them they are not all like them but the ones I ran into were.  We rebuked them and left.  I will never go to any fellowship that says they are the church in "What ever city name". they are perverted for sure.

 

Don't get the term wrong using Christian is it taught by men that it was a term of derision but the context point to Paul and Barnabus being the ones who called them Christians in Antioch and it was a compliment not a derisional name.

 

but the church (people) have been dividing themselves up since the beginning and paul tried to put a stop to it but once he was gone they went right back to it.



#25 John81

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Posted 23 July 2014 - 05:58 PM

This is a fallen world. There are no perfect Christians, no perfect fellowships or congregations. We have to deal with the situations we face as best we can with the Lord's help; and what we face is different around the world.






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