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One God, Three Persons, Co-Equal


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#1 "I am chief"

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 05:54 PM

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit

 

Each person of God possesses the attributes of God, authentically, entirely, individually, and eternally. Each person of God has distinct offices toward man’s salvation and reconciliation.

 

Personal Statement of Faith and Doctrines (created from past local churches I've attended)

 

The Godhead

I believe in a personal God, who is one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believe they are equal in divine perfection, each executing distinct, but harmonious offices in the work of Redemption. God is infinitely holy, being by His own nature incapable of sin, and absolutely sovereign working all things after the counsel of His own will.  (Gen. 1:1; Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; John 1:13, 4:24, 10:30; Rom. 8:28, 9:11; II Cor. 13:14; Eph. 1:5)

 

God the Father

I believe that God the Father is the all wise and sovereign ruler of all creation, who sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.  He is the Creator of all and the Father of those who have accepted redemption through His Son. (Gen. 1:1,

 

God the Son

I believe that Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit and was born of Mary, a virgin, in order that He might reveal God and redeem sinful men; that He is both the Son of God and God the Son. I believe He led a sinless life, He died on the cross, He arose from the dead on the third day, He was raised again to life by the Father, He ascended into heaven, He sits at the Fathers right hand, is coming again to take me with Him to heaven and eternal life.  (Isa. 7.14; John 1.1-2; John 16:15; Gal. 4.4-5; Phil. 2.5-8; Acts 1.1-11; Hebrews 8.1)

 

God the Holy Spirit

I believe that the Holy Spirit is a divine Person, equal with God the Father and God the Son and of the same nature. It is He who convicts of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment.  He is the Restrainer of the Evil One until God's purpose is fulfilled.  He bears witness to the truth of the Gospel and is the agent in the new birth, baptizing all true believers into the Body of Christ, sealing them until the day of redemption.  (John 16.8-11; Rom. 8-9; 1 Cor. 12.12-14; Eph. 4.30)

 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 13:3 “Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;”

John 14:26   But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

1. Did God have to enter into God (did God fill God) to allow God to complete God’s performance of God’s distinct office?



#2 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 08:50 PM

 

1. Did God have to enter into God (did God fill God) to allow God to complete God’s performance of God’s distinct office?

 

Try rewording it into a simpler more understandable question or make into two or three simple questions.

 

As it stands above it is not clear enough to understand what you are trying to ask.



#3 paid4

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Posted 25 July 2014 - 10:47 PM

No.

God the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit  have always existed co-equally.

 

That's the "us" in Genesis....Let us make man...

 

 

I feel like (I've scratched over this but have yet to put the message together) there has been different power shifts throughout the beginning of time.

 

Now please understand that I fully know and assuredly believe that God has never relinquished control of anything. I think that we're living in a time of the Prince of the power of the air having a certain amount of power. I also believe that at this current time the Holy Spirit is the counterbalance to that power. 

 

I say all that to say this, I believe when Christ returns He will have all power AND will one day return it ALL to God the Father. Now here's my verse for that statement. 1 Corinthians 15:24-28

 

I hope this helps a little. I agree with AV here that the question is wordy. Maybe I missed the mark all together but I do love talking about the trinity. Most Christians shy away from it but I see it as a chance to talk about my wonderful, merciful, Great Big God in all his aspects and attributes.



#4 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:16 AM

 

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit

 

 

1. Did God have to enter into God (did God fill God) to allow God to complete God’s performance of God’s distinct office?

 

 

 

Try rewording it into a simpler more understandable question or make into two or three simple questions.

 

As it stands above it is not clear enough to understand what you are trying to ask.

 

I might be wrong, but I'm assuming that Chief is pointing out a problem for those who don't believe in the Trinity or hold to Oneness Theology.  I've used a similar example before...

 

There are several verses that mention the different members of the God-head individually and separately from each other, yet each member is addressed (in those verses) as existing...at the same time...as separate individuals.  For example...

 

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

That verse DOESN'T say...

 

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to himself, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by himself.

 

or...

 

2 Corinthians 13:14
The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen.

 

That verse DOESN'T say...

 

The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the communion of the Lord Jesus Christ, be with you all. Amen.


Edited by No Nicolaitans, 26 July 2014 - 08:18 AM.


#5 Winman

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:18 AM

1. Did God have to enter into God (did God fill God) to allow God to complete God’s performance of God’s distinct office?

 

Why did the Holy Ghost have to descend on and remain on Jesus?

 

Mat 3:16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

 

Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:

 

Luk 3:22 And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.

 

Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
 
The scriptures are very consistent, they say the Holy Spirit descended "upon" Jesus and remained "on" him. If Jesus had the indwelling Spirit, why did the Holy Spirit need to descend and remain on him? 
 
I agree 100% that Jesus WAS and IS God, but the scriptures show that Jesus emptied, or at the least limited himself in some ways as a man. God does not get hungry or tired, Jesus had to eat and sleep like us. God cannot die, Jesus DID die. God is omniscient, Jesus said he did not know the day and hour he would return. 
 
I might be wrong, but from what I see in the scriptures Jesus came as a normal man. He had to fight sin the way a normal man would, by faith in God and obedience to his word. I believe he performed miracles the same way OT prophets did, in the power of the Holy Spirit that was "upon" them. 
 
Jud 14:5 Then went Samson down, and his father and his mother, to Timnath, and came to the vineyards of Timnath: and, behold, a young lion roared against him.
6 And the Spirit of the LORD came mightily upon him, and he rent him as he would have rent a kid, and he had nothing in his hand: but he told not his father or his mother what he had done.
 
It was when the Spirit came "upon" Samson that he had great strength. But when his hair was cut, the LORD departed from him and he was as a normal man. 
 
Jud 16:20 And she said, The Philistines be upon thee, Samson. And he awoke out of his sleep, and said, I will go out as at other times before, and shake myself. And he wist not that the LORD was departed from him.
 
So, in the OT the Spirit could depart from a man.
 
1 Sam 16:14 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him.
 
So, I think Jesus had the Spirit in the same way as OT prophets and saints, the Spirit was "upon" him. Perhaps I am wrong. 
 
What is important now is that all believers have the permanent indwelling Spirit that will never leave or forsake us. 


#6 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:50 AM

Oh...the "could Jesus have sinned" question. Is this what you were getting at Chief?

 

My personal view is that Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. As a man, he could be touched with the feelings of our infirmities (Hebrews 4:15). As God, it was impossible for Christ to sin, because God can't sin (John 10:30 and James 1:13). 

 

If, according to James 1:13, God can't be tempted with evil...why was Christ tempted? My view is that he wasn't tempted to see IF he would sin; rather, he was tempted to prove he would not sin (and to give us a pattern in how to overcome temptation...through the word of God). As a man, he felt the infirmities of temptation that we feel; however, as God, he could not sin. 

 

The Spirit descending on Jesus was a sign to John the Baptist (John 1:33). John was to "prepare the way" for Christ. God gave this sign to John to affirm that Jesus Christ was the Messiah...the Son of God.

 

While Christ was on earth, he displayed all of the supernatural attributes that only God has. Here's just a few examples...

 

Omnipotence: Mark 4:39

Omnipresence: John 1:48-50

Omniscience: Luke 6:8

 

...and let's not forget John 21:25!

 

So...my view is that Christ could not have sinned. I'm not trying to debate...just giving my view.  :)


Edited by No Nicolaitans, 26 July 2014 - 08:51 AM.


#7 Winman

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:19 AM

Oh...the "could Jesus have sinned" question. Is this what you were getting at Chief?

 

My personal view is that Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. As a man, he could be touched with the feelings of our infirmities (Hebrews 4:15). As God, it was impossible for Christ to sin, because God can't sin (John 10:30 and James 1:13). 

 

If, according to James 1:13, God can't be tempted with evil...why was Christ tempted? My view is that he wasn't tempted to see IF he would sin; rather, he was tempted to prove he would not sin (and to give us a pattern in how to overcome temptation...through the word of God). As a man, he felt the infirmities of temptation that we feel; however, as God, he could not sin. 

 

The Spirit descending on Jesus was a sign to John the Baptist (John 1:33). John was to "prepare the way" for Christ. God gave this sign to John to affirm that Jesus Christ was the Messiah...the Son of God.

 

While Christ was on earth, he displayed all of the supernatural attributes that only God has. Here's just a few examples...

 

Omnipotence: Mark 4:39

Omnipresence: John 1:48-50

Omniscience: Luke 6:8

 

...and let's not forget John 21:25!

 

So...my view is that Christ could not have sinned. I'm not trying to debate...just giving my view.  :)

 

Those scriptures do not prove your view. 

 

Mar 4:39 And he arose, and rebuked the wind, and said unto the sea, Peace, be still. And the wind ceased, and there was a great calm.

 

This does not prove Jesus as a man was omnipotent, prophets could control the weather through the power of the Holy Spirit that was upon them.

 

Jam 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
 
Elias stopped the rain for three years, and then prayed again and it rained. He was a normal man. 
 
Jesus was not omnipresent as a man;
 
Jhn 11:14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.
15 And I am glad for your sakes that I was not there, to the intent ye may believe; nevertheless let us go unto him.
 
Jesus was not 100% omniscient as a man.
 
Mar 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
 
Now let me qualify all these statements. Jesus as a man was quite normal. But at the same time he WAS and IS God. As God he was omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent. 
 
Jesus showed that he was both in heaven and on earth at the same time with Nicodemus.
 
Jhn 3:13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
 
Jesus told Nicodemus he was in heaven when he was speaking to Nicodemus face to face. 
 
So, this is a very difficult subject to comprehend. Jesus as a man was limited in his abilities, but as God he is not. It is difficult to comprehend how both could be true at the same moment, but scripture shows they were. 

Edited by Winman, 26 July 2014 - 09:22 AM.


#8 MountainChristian

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:28 AM

 

God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit

 

Each person of God possesses the attributes of God, authentically, entirely, individually, and eternally. Each person of God has distinct offices toward man’s salvation and reconciliation.

 

Personal Statement of Faith and Doctrines (created from past local churches I've attended)

 

The Godhead

I believe in a personal God, who is one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. I believe they are equal in divine perfection, each executing distinct, but harmonious offices in the work of Redemption. God is infinitely holy, being by His own nature incapable of sin, and absolutely sovereign working all things after the counsel of His own will.  (Gen. 1:1; Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; John 1:13, 4:24, 10:30; Rom. 8:28, 9:11; II Cor. 13:14; Eph. 1:5)

 

God the Father

I believe that God the Father is the all wise and sovereign ruler of all creation, who sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.  He is the Creator of all and the Father of those who have accepted redemption through His Son. (Gen. 1:1,

 

God the Son

I believe that Jesus Christ was conceived of the Holy Spirit and was born of Mary, a virgin, in order that He might reveal God and redeem sinful men; that He is both the Son of God and God the Son. I believe He led a sinless life, He died on the cross, He arose from the dead on the third day, He was raised again to life by the Father, He ascended into heaven, He sits at the Fathers right hand, is coming again to take me with Him to heaven and eternal life.  (Isa. 7.14; John 1.1-2; John 16:15; Gal. 4.4-5; Phil. 2.5-8; Acts 1.1-11; Hebrews 8.1)

 

God the Holy Spirit

I believe that the Holy Spirit is a divine Person, equal with God the Father and God the Son and of the same nature. It is He who convicts of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment.  He is the Restrainer of the Evil One until God's purpose is fulfilled.  He bears witness to the truth of the Gospel and is the agent in the new birth, baptizing all true believers into the Body of Christ, sealing them until the day of redemption.  (John 16.8-11; Rom. 8-9; 1 Cor. 12.12-14; Eph. 4.30)

 

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 13:3 “Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;”

John 14:26   But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

1. Did God have to enter into God (did God fill God) to allow God to complete God’s performance of God’s distinct office?

 

 

No.

 

Also The Word/Jesus created everything according to John 1.

 

Personally I don't have the brains to fully understand the Trinity, but I believe in it.

 

Here is Jesus who eats some onions or garlic and has bad breath. Has to excuse Himself so he can use the bathroom. Who got gas and had to pass it. Flesh like us. In John 10:18 He says "18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." BUT in Acts 2:23-24 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Peter says God raised Jesus up. The more we men try to separate the 3 the more They unite. 



#9 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:33 AM

 

Those scriptures do not prove your view. 

 

 

Okay.

 

...but the verses that you quoted don't prove your view either. 

 

Elijah didn't stop the rain, he prayed and God stopped it. When we pray for something, and the prayer is answered, does that mean we did it?

 

How did Jesus know that Lazarus was dead already. He wasn't there physically was all he was talking about.

 

I don't have a problem with Jesus saying that he doesn't know the day or the hour. As God, he can choose what he knows...just as God chooses not to remember our sins anymore.


Edited by No Nicolaitans, 26 July 2014 - 10:39 AM.


#10 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:54 AM

No.

 

Also The Word/Jesus created everything according to John 1.

 

Personally I don't have the brains to fully understand the Trinity, but I believe in it.

 

Here is Jesus who eats some onions or garlic and has bad breath. Has to excuse Himself so he can use the bathroom. Who got gas and had to pass it. Flesh like us. In John 10:18 He says "18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father." BUT in Acts 2:23-24 23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain: 24 Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it. Peter says God raised Jesus up. The more we men try to separate the 3 the more They unite. 

 

The Bible also says the Spirit raised him.  ;) 

1 Peter 3:18

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

 

 

The more we men try to separate the 3 the more They unite. 

 

:amen:



#11 Winman

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:15 AM

Okay.

 

...but the verses that you quoted don't prove your view either. 

 

Elijah didn't stop the rain, he prayed and God stopped it. When we pray for something, and the prayer is answered, does that mean we did it?

 

How did Jesus know that Lazarus was dead already. He wasn't there physically was all he was talking about.

 

I don't have a problem with Jesus saying that he doesn't know the day or the hour. As God, he can choose what he knows...just as God chooses not to remember our sins anymore.

 

Well, the verses I provided showed a normal man could perform miracles through the assistance of the Holy Spirit, and that is how I believe Jesus performed his miracles. He never performed any miracles until after the Holy Spirit descended upon him.

 

Jhn 2:11 This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.

 

This was just a few days after Jesus was baptized and the Spirit descended upon him, This was the "beginning" of miracles he performed. He never performed a miracle before the Holy Ghost descended upon him. 

 

I agree that Jesus knew Lazarus was dead, but Jesus also said, I am glad for your sakes that "I was not there". He was not omnipresent as a man. 

 

And concerning his return Jesus said that of that day and hour knoweth "no man". As a man he was not omniscient. 

 

These are things beyond our comprehension, nevertheless we should believe what the scriptures say. 



#12 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 11:33 AM

These are things beyond our comprehension, nevertheless we should believe what the scriptures say. 

 

:thumb:



#13 "I am chief"

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 12:58 PM

I'll develop the question with assistance from another thread.

"As you see, the scriptures repeatedly say the Spirit would be "upon" Jesus, not "in him". So perhaps Acts 2:33 is literal, and Jesus received the indwelling Holy Spirit when he rose from the dead and was glorified."

 

Do you believe Jesus Christ received the Holy Spirit's indwelling when he rose from the dead?



#14 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 01:29 PM

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Isn't this referring to the promise given by Jesus to the disciples in John 14:16 and John 16:7 (Et al)?



#15 Winman

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:03 PM

Acts 2:33
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

 

Isn't this referring to the promise given by Jesus to the disciples in John 14:16 and John 16:7 (Et al)?

 

Perhaps this verse simply means Jesus received the promise that his Father would give the Holy Spirit to those who believe on Jesus. 

 

But the way it is worded, it seems to say Jesus received the promise of the Holy Ghost, and he, meaning Jesus, has now shed forth "this", the word "this" being the Holy Spirit that came upon these believers on Pentacost. 

 

One verse that MIGHT suggest that Jesus had the indwelling Spirit before this is John 14:10;

 

Jhn 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

 

Here, Jesus said the Father "dwelleth in me". So, perhaps the Holy Spirit also dwelt in him at this time. Perhaps not. 

 

The book of John is difficult, because some things that are spoken of in present tense are future. 

 

Jhn 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

 

Jesus said those that eat his flesh, and drink his blood (believe) dwell in him present tense. But believers did not receive the Holy Spirit until after Jesus rose from the dead. 

 

Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
 
So Jesus said that persons who believe on him, he dwells in them, and they dwell in him, present tense. But when it comes to the Holy Spirit, we are told he will be received by believers in the future. 
 
So, in John 14:10 Jesus says the Father dwells in him present tense, does that mean the Holy Spirit dwells in him present tense, or did Jesus also receive the Holy Spirit in the future when he was risen and glorified? 
 
This is not simple. 


#16 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 02:43 PM

I agree that if you take the verse by itself, it would appear to be saying that Jesus received the Holy Ghost; however, when reading the whole chapter, it's referring to the believers receiving the Holy Spirit.

 

That was the whole premise that provoked Peter's sermon...the people wondered what in the world was going on with those who had received the gift of the Holy Spirit, so Peter addressed that in his sermon.



#17 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:40 PM

 

Why did the Holy Ghost have to descend on and remain on Jesus?

 


 

Jhn 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
 

 

Win, is this you rewording the question for Chief?

 

the verse John 1 32-33 above was a sign for a Jew named John the Baptist.  we know it is a sign because John says so.  the sign was the dove like decending but you will notice God says it is he that baptizeth with the Holy Ghost so from that we can see some types.

 

This is a wonderful type of what happens When a person gets saved by grace through faith.  The Holy Ghost comes upon them and remains in them.

 

It is also a type of empowerment for the work by the Holy Ghost after one believes.

 

Remember the only reason Christ was baptized was to identify himself with sinful men not to receive the Holy Ghost. No where does it say he was there to receive the Holy Ghost.

 

Now before you all go off and say it says nothing about identifying remember what John is performing is called the baptism of the remission of sins.  Christ was sinless so in getting baptized he is identifying himself with sinful man.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 26 July 2014 - 05:44 PM.


#18 Invicta

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:16 PM

 

 

Jam 5:17 Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.
18 And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the earth brought forth her fruit.
 
Elias stopped the rain for three years, and then prayed again and it rained. He was a normal man. 
 

 

I believe it was God who stopped the rain.

 

I have heard charismatics say that as Elias was a normal man filled with the Holy Spirit, if we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we could do the same.

 

The problem with that is, God told Elijah to pray for rain.

 

1Ki 18:1  And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth.


#19 Winman

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:33 PM

 

I believe it was God who stopped the rain.

 

I have heard charismatics say that as Elias was a normal man filled with the Holy Spirit, if we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we could do the same.

 

The problem with that is, God told Elijah to pray for rain.

 

1Ki 18:1  And it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the third year, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send rain upon the earth.

 

 

#1 Of course it was God who stopped the rain, who would believe otherwise? This is a strawman. 

 

#2 The scriptures say Elias (Elijah) was a man of like passions as we are. He was a normal man, yet he was able to pray and God stopped it from raining for 3 1/2 years. He prayed again and it rained. 

 

#3 Do you listen to Charismatics? I will say this though, if you do not believe God will answer your prayer, he certainly will not. 

 

Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
 
This passage concerns asking for wisdom, nevertheless, God is not going to answer your prayer if you do not believe. At least the Charismatics believe. And I would not be surprised if God does not answer their prayers at times, even if they are in error. If we must be perfect before God will answer our prayers, we are all in big trouble. 
 
#4 OK, and Elijah believed God and prayed for rain. What is your point?


#20 Invicta

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:39 PM

 

#1 Of course it was God who stopped the rain, who would believe otherwise? This is a strawman. 

 

#2 The scriptures say Elias (Elijah) was a man of like passions as we are. He was a normal man, yet he was able to pray and God stopped it from raining for 3 1/2 years. He prayed again and it rained. 

 

#3 Do you listen to Charismatics? I will say this though, if you do not believe God will answer your prayer, he certainly will not. 

 

Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
 
This passage concerns asking for wisdom, nevertheless, God is not going to answer your prayer if you do not believe. At least the Charismatics believe. And I would not be surprised if God does not answer their prayers at times, even if they are in error. If we must be perfect before God will answer our prayers, we are all in big trouble. 
 
#4 OK, and Elijah believed God and prayed for rain. What is your point?

 

 

That was my point.






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