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Speaking In Tongues


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#1 GraceSaved

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 03:43 PM

My sister goes to a charasmatic church.  She speaks in tongues (the spiritual language modern day tongues).  She has shown me every scripture that she's been taught, mostly the ones in Acts and 1 Corinthians.  I went through them with her and showed how it was unbiblical.  She now sees in scripture but is so conditioned to 20 years experience.  I can sympathize with her because I used to go to a charasmatic church but it started to make me question and feel uncomfortable.  When I studied and searched for the truth in scripture, I didn't care about my experience.  We are not to trust ourselves, our feelings or our experiences if it is against the Word.  Of course I've been praying for her and I still think she is saved and a Christian but just in error.  What else can I tell her?  Especially because she feels deceived and can't understand what she's been doing all these years.  Any advice or suggestions?  Thanks in advance.



#2 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:06 PM

Take her to 1 Corinthians 14.  show her that the Apostle Paul said it was forbidden for the woman to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Context (the whole Chapter is dealing with tongues) shows that a woman speaking in tongues was forbidden.  This means each time she does, she is being rebellious to the above verses.  And thus, rebellious also to God.


Edited by Standing Firm In Christ, 26 July 2014 - 04:07 PM.


#3 GraceSaved

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 04:43 PM

She understands how it was to be used in the church and and they don't use it in public anymore unless interpreted because it's controversial. Specifically she's dealing with how it's used in private prayer. Charasmatics teach that it is used for empowerment, edifying oneself and allowance for the Holy Spirit to intercede as we know not what to pray for.

#4 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:09 PM

But when the Holy Spirit intercedes, it is with groanings that cannot be uttered.

#5 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:12 PM

Also, tongues were given for a sign to unbelieving Jews. Why would God tell someone to speak in a tongue where no Jews were present when His Word says they are for a sign to the Jews? He would be telling someone to operate contrary to His written Word.

#6 GraceSaved

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

Absolutely agree and explained all that and more but she just can't get past the "experience."

#7 DaveW

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:34 PM

One of my favourite passages.....
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

the key here is "what is the Word more sure than?"
The previous verses talk about the transfiguration of Christ.
Peter says that the Word of God is more sure than his own experience of viewing the transfiguration of Christ.

Throw that at her.......

#8 GraceSaved

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 05:45 PM

Dave W. I did. :-) That one sure blew my mind the first time I read it. I think I showed her every possible thing I could show her in scripture. The hard part is helping her get over the experience. For me, I just stopped believing once I sought after and learned the truth. She hasn't said it but I think she is struggling with thinking why God would allow her to be deceived. The only words of comfort I can offer is to be thankful that now she knows the truth. She just has to decide now what she will do with that truth.

#9 Bro K

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 06:46 PM

Take her to 1 Corinthians 14.  show her that the Apostle Paul said it was forbidden for the woman to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Context (the whole Chapter is dealing with tongues) shows that a woman speaking in tongues was forbidden.  This means each time she does, she is being rebellious to the above verses.  And thus, rebellious also to God.

How does the "And if they will learn any thing" relate to 'speaking in tongues'? Is speaking in tongues a learning subject and the husband must be capable of teaching his wife about it?

Why would Paul single out the women on this subject matter?



#10 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 07:58 PM

Bro K, why would she not be able to learn if the message spoken was in a language she understood?

Most understand the language they speak, so I believe that the verses are speaking of tongues.



#11 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:01 PM

Her speaking out could be seen as a disruption in the service.  The key though, may be in the words "as also saith the Law".  The Law forbade the women to speak in tongutes or when tongues were given for some reason.

verse 40 may hold significance as well.  Let all things be done decently and in order.



#12 beameup

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 08:52 PM

"Jews seek a sign" - that's what Acts 2 was all about.

It was fulfilled by the "little flock" in Jerusalem under "the twelve" apostles.

The Body of Christ ("Church") didn't start until Paul was saved in Acts 9.



#13 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 09:12 PM

Wrong, beammeup.

The Body of Christ started much earlier than that.  Read Acts 2

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Even in Philippians 3, Paul said that before His conversion he persecuted the Church.  How could he have persecuted the Church if the Church did not exist until after Saul/Paul got saved?


Edited by Standing Firm In Christ, 26 July 2014 - 09:18 PM.


#14 beameup

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:23 PM

The "church of the firstborn" is the Jewish "Sect of the Nazarenes",  a strictly Jewish sect. 

Mosaic Law was still practiced by the Jewish believers in Acts.

Rejection of Steven's message = Steven stoned = Paul (apostle to Gentiles) saved.

Just because they use the Greek ekklesia does not mean the Body of Christ.

 

 

2 Tim 2:15 "rightly dividing"

The "middle wall of partition" between those saved under the Gospel of the (imminent) Kingdom

(ie: "grafted in" to Israel)

and those saved by the Gospel of Grace ("one new man") was accomplished in Acts 28:28 when

Paul is in prison (see Ephesians).


Edited by beameup, 26 July 2014 - 10:46 PM.


#15 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 26 July 2014 - 10:33 PM

Ephesians 2:14-15 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Both are one in Christ.  The Gentiles were grafted into the vine.  No such thing as a Church of the Jews and Church of the Gentiles.  Christ has ONE BODY, not two.  The Church that existed before Acts 10 did not remain a separate Church from the Gentiles.... it was one universal Body.



#16 prophet1

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:37 AM

Maybe if she heard the testimony of all of the people who have been possessed of devils, by opening up to "the spirit" to receive their gift of tounges, she would consider that the spirit behind these "miracles" is Satan.

#17 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:43 AM

the following is MY teaching on tongues.

 

I was trying to keep in mine to keep my outlines short and simple so others will study certain topics out.

I always wondered if tongues are not needed why did Paul mention them as a spiritual gift that when done properly would bring edification to the church?  I discovered that by rightly dividing tongues there were three types of usage of tongues in the New Testament.  

I. The Sign Gift of Tongues
Interesting enough the sign gift in every example needed no interpretation all who heard understood what was said.

Acts 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.  
Acts 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?  
Acts 2:11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
Acts 10:44  While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God.
Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. (though we are not told what the prophecy was the only way they would know it was a prophecy is if they knew what was being said).

II The Spiritual Gift of Tongues
The spiritual gift needs an interpretation and it is connected with interpretation in 1Cor 12:10, all Paul's instructions insist that there be an interpretation. The reason being that the church would be edified and profit from what is being spoken which is the purpose of the gift.

1Cor 12:10  To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues: (one speaks in a tongue and another one is to interpret.)
1Cor 14:5  I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying. (tongues was to be interpreted for edification of the church)
1Co 14:9-11 So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air.  There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification. Therefore if I know not the meaning of the voice, I shall be unto him that speaketh a barbarian, and he that speaketh shall be a barbarian unto me. (importance of interpretation)
1Cor 14:12, 13 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church. Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. (the same person or another should interpret.)
1Cor 14:27, 28 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret.


III The Soulish use of Tongues or the unknown tongue
This use of tongues has no interpretation that is why Paul Identified it as an 'Unknown" tongue.  And its use goes against the Lords purpose for giving it.

1Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries. (the church is made up of men and they understand not what is being said)
1Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself. (Edifies himself and not the church)
1Cor 14:12-14 Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, seek that ye may excel to the edifying of the church.  Wherefore let him that speaketh in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret.   For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful. (Edify the church in all that you do)
1Cor 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. (Speak that all may understand)
1Cor 14:22, 23 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.  If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? (see Act 2 how tongues worked for the unbeliever, no interpretation needed for they will hear in their own tongue)
1Cor 14:27, 28 If any man speak in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let one interpret. But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God. (if no one can interpret the tongue, whether one or three, they are not to ever speak in the assembly again).

So in short, the sign gift needs no interpretation, the spiritual gift needs an interpretation and the soulish use has no interpretation.

Clearly those who practice speaking in unknown tongues in the assembly of believers without an interpretation are in disobedience to Gods word.  And if there be more than three speaking in tongues, especially unknown tongues in the assembly they are in disobedience to Gods word as well.

Another interesting thing is only the sign gift has Biblical examples.  The interpreted tongue has no example of any saint using it (now I could be wrong but I haven't found it yet).  And the unknown tongue has no Biblical example all we have is Paul's word saying it was done.  Of course it means it more than likely it was done, and it would also mean the spiritual gift and its interpretation was most likely done also.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 11:44 AM.


#18 GraceSaved

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:01 AM

Prophet1...I mentioned that and the answer I was given was that the devil mimics God.



#19 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:06 AM

Maybe if she heard the testimony of all of the people who have been possessed of devils, by opening up to "the spirit" to receive their gift of tounges, she would consider that the spirit behind these "miracles" is Satan.

You need to be very careful because Paul taught that the gift of tongues was from the Holy Ghost, and the qualifier is that if it was interpreted then we know it was of God because it brought edification.

 

The unknown uninterpreted tongue known as an unknown tongue could be of the Holy Ghost too because it was for the one who did it is being edified, but the body is not being edified.  Pauls teaching is about who is doing it where and how and its outcome.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 09:08 AM.


#20 GraceSaved

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:14 AM

So what about today's tongues that do have an interpretation?  I've seen that done in the charasmatic churches.  Everybody is praising or praying to God in tongues then there's this quiet lull as if everyone instinctively knows a message is about to come forth and one person speaks out in tongues while everyone listens and waits for interpretation...then someone interprets.  I was also in a service years ago where this happened where apparently the tongue spoken was in Greek and there was a Greek woman there who understood.  There was also an interpretation for everyone else to understand.  What is that about?






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