Speaking In Tongues

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Posted

My sister goes to a charasmatic church.  She speaks in tongues (the spiritual language modern day tongues).  She has shown me every scripture that she's been taught, mostly the ones in Acts and 1 Corinthians.  I went through them with her and showed how it was unbiblical.  She now sees in scripture but is so conditioned to 20 years experience.  I can sympathize with her because I used to go to a charasmatic church but it started to make me question and feel uncomfortable.  When I studied and searched for the truth in scripture, I didn't care about my experience.  We are not to trust ourselves, our feelings or our experiences if it is against the Word.  Of course I've been praying for her and I still think she is saved and a Christian but just in error.  What else can I tell her?  Especially because she feels deceived and can't understand what she's been doing all these years.  Any advice or suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

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Posted (edited)

Take her to 1 Corinthians 14.  show her that the Apostle Paul said it was forbidden for the woman to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Context (the whole Chapter is dealing with tongues) shows that a woman speaking in tongues was forbidden.  This means each time she does, she is being rebellious to the above verses.  And thus, rebellious also to God.

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted

She understands how it was to be used in the church and and they don't use it in public anymore unless interpreted because it's controversial. Specifically she's dealing with how it's used in private prayer. Charasmatics teach that it is used for empowerment, edifying oneself and allowance for the Holy Spirit to intercede as we know not what to pray for.

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Posted

But when the Holy Spirit intercedes, it is with groanings that cannot be uttered.

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Posted

Also, tongues were given for a sign to unbelieving Jews. Why would God tell someone to speak in a tongue where no Jews were present when His Word says they are for a sign to the Jews? He would be telling someone to operate contrary to His written Word.

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Posted

Absolutely agree and explained all that and more but she just can't get past the "experience."

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Posted

One of my favourite passages.....
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

the key here is "what is the Word more sure than?"
The previous verses talk about the transfiguration of Christ.
Peter says that the Word of God is more sure than his own experience of viewing the transfiguration of Christ.

Throw that at her.......

GraceSaved likes this

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Posted

Dave W. I did. :-) That one sure blew my mind the first time I read it. I think I showed her every possible thing I could show her in scripture. The hard part is helping her get over the experience. For me, I just stopped believing once I sought after and learned the truth. She hasn't said it but I think she is struggling with thinking why God would allow her to be deceived. The only words of comfort I can offer is to be thankful that now she knows the truth. She just has to decide now what she will do with that truth.

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Posted

Take her to 1 Corinthians 14.  show her that the Apostle Paul said it was forbidden for the woman to speak in tongues.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under OBedience, as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Context (the whole Chapter is dealing with tongues) shows that a woman speaking in tongues was forbidden.  This means each time she does, she is being rebellious to the above verses.  And thus, rebellious also to God.

How does the "And if they will learn any thing" relate to 'speaking in tongues'? Is speaking in tongues a learning subject and the husband must be capable of teaching his wife about it?

Why would Paul single out the women on this subject matter?

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Posted

Bro K, why would she not be able to learn if the message spoken was in a language she understood?

Most understand the language they speak, so I believe that the verses are speaking of tongues.

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Posted

Her speaking out could be seen as a disruption in the service.  The key though, may be in the words "as also saith the Law".  The Law forbade the women to speak in tongutes or when tongues were given for some reason.

verse 40 may hold significance as well.  Let all things be done decently and in order.

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Posted

"Jews seek a sign" - that's what Acts 2 was all about.

It was fulfilled by the "little flock" in Jerusalem under "the twelve" apostles.

The Body of Christ ("Church") didn't start until Paul was saved in Acts 9.

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Posted (edited)

Wrong, beammeup.

The Body of Christ started much earlier than that.  Read Acts 2

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Even in Philippians 3, Paul said that before His conversion he persecuted the Church.  How could he have persecuted the Church if the Church did not exist until after Saul/Paul got saved?

Edited by Standing Firm In Christ
Invicta likes this

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Posted (edited)

The "church of the firstborn" is the Jewish "Sect of the Nazarenes",  a strictly Jewish sect. 

Mosaic Law was still practiced by the Jewish believers in Acts.

Rejection of Steven's message = Steven stoned = Paul (apostle to Gentiles) saved.

Just because they use the Greek ekklesia does not mean the Body of Christ.

 

 

2 Tim 2:15 "rightly dividing"

The "middle wall of partition" between those saved under the Gospel of the (imminent) Kingdom

(ie: "grafted in" to Israel)

and those saved by the Gospel of Grace ("one new man") was accomplished in Acts 28:28 when

Paul is in prison (see Ephesians).

Edited by beameup

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Posted

Ephesians 2:14-15 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

Both are one in Christ.  The Gentiles were grafted into the vine.  No such thing as a Church of the Jews and Church of the Gentiles.  Christ has ONE BODY, not two.  The Church that existed before Acts 10 did not remain a separate Church from the Gentiles.... it was one universal Body.

John81 likes this

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Posted

Maybe if she heard the testimony of all of the people who have been possessed of devils, by opening up to "the spirit" to receive their gift of tounges, she would consider that the spirit behind these "miracles" is Satan.

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Posted (edited)

Edited by AVBibleBeliever

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Posted

Prophet1...I mentioned that and the answer I was given was that the devil mimics God.

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Posted (edited)

Maybe if she heard the testimony of all of the people who have been possessed of devils, by opening up to "the spirit" to receive their gift of tounges, she would consider that the spirit behind these "miracles" is Satan.

You need to be very careful because Paul taught that the gift of tongues was from the Holy Ghost, and the qualifier is that if it was interpreted then we know it was of God because it brought edification.

 

The unknown uninterpreted tongue known as an unknown tongue could be of the Holy Ghost too because it was for the one who did it is being edified, but the body is not being edified.  Pauls teaching is about who is doing it where and how and its outcome.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever

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Posted

So what about today's tongues that do have an interpretation?  I've seen that done in the charasmatic churches.  Everybody is praising or praying to God in tongues then there's this quiet lull as if everyone instinctively knows a message is about to come forth and one person speaks out in tongues while everyone listens and waits for interpretation...then someone interprets.  I was also in a service years ago where this happened where apparently the tongue spoken was in Greek and there was a Greek woman there who understood.  There was also an interpretation for everyone else to understand.  What is that about?

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Posted (edited)

So what about today's tongues that do have an interpretation?  I've seen that done in the charasmatic churches.  Everybody is praising or praying to God in tongues then there's this quiet lull as if everyone instinctively knows a message is about to come forth and one person speaks out in tongues while everyone listens and waits for interpretation...then someone interprets.  I was also in a service years ago where this happened where apparently the tongue spoken was in Greek and there was a Greek woman there who understood.  There was also an interpretation for everyone else to understand.  What is that about?

where there are more than three and not speaking it in order and there is not interpretation they are in disOBedience to God's word.  If there are more then three and not done one at a time that is disOBedience and well even if there is an interpretation.

 

Was it edifying or was it condemning?

Edited by AVBibleBeliever

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Posted

I honestly can't remember.  It has been years ago.  When it was done in the church, I believe it must have been edifying because everyone seemed happy afterward.  However, I do remember one instance during a prayer meeting where an interpretation came across seeming to be reprimanding.  The message was something like not having enough faith and when I say something I will do it..."thus sayeth the Lord."

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Posted (edited)

I honestly can't remember.  It has been years ago.  When it was done in the church, I believe it must have been edifying because everyone seemed happy afterward.  However, I do remember one instance during a prayer meeting where an interpretation came across seeming to be reprimanding.  The message was something like not having enough faith and when I say something I will do it..."thus sayeth the Lord."

that last one may not have been from the Lord.

 

I was witnessing to a lady on a short term mission trip to a So East Asian country.  Our translator started to translate what shared and she stopped him and said (which had to be translated for me) that she understood me and heard me speak in her native tongue of which I was not trained in or spoke.  but as far as I know our whole team who was present heard me speak in English. 

 

I heard of a young Jewish lady getting saved because one person spoke in a High Forum of French and another lady interpreted and supposedly neither of them knew this type of French, the young Jewish lady was trained in that language and was wondering why the other had interpreted it. She verified that it was the correct translation and was told neither one of them learned or spoke French at all.

 

I don't know of anyone who speaks in an unknown tongue in their private time with God where Paul says, they speak unto God.  Of course I don't go around listing or spying on someone who is in their private time with God to see if they are speaking in tongues or not.

Edited by AVBibleBeliever

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Posted

Then there's the teaching that one should use it in their private prayer.  I have never known anyone that has interpreted their own tongues during private prayer.

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Posted

So what about today's tongues that do have an interpretation?  I've seen that done in the charasmatic churches.  Everybody is praising or praying to God in tongues then there's this quiet lull as if everyone instinctively knows a message is about to come forth and one person speaks out in tongues while everyone listens and waits for interpretation...then someone interprets.  I was also in a service years ago where this happened where apparently the tongue spoken was in Greek and there was a Greek woman there who understood.  There was also an interpretation for everyone else to understand.  What is that about?

 

180 years ago, William Goode wrote a book on the then charismatic movement.  It had a very long title but my library shortened it to Goode's Modern Claims (to the Extraordinary gifts of thr Holy Spirit...........) dated 1834.  

 

 

In it he says that in the past there were those who spoke actual languages and gives a number of examples, particularly the Camisards or French Prophets, where many of the prophets were children. Many of these were attested others as true.  The main work he quotes from is Warnings by Elias Marion dated 1705 (If I remember correctly)    Many of these children spoke in good French which was not a language of their area or class.  One example was a child who could not speak or go on its own speaking in good French.  You can find a copy in Dr William's library, London, but they don't lend out books dated before 1800.  

 

Mr Goode's book was republished in a limited edition about 20 years ago under the title of Charismatic Confusion.

 

Regarding not being deceived.

 

A leading English charismatic in the 17th century was John Mason, died 1694. Also a hymn writer.   He said Jesus appeared to him on Easter Monday 1694 and after that date said he would not conduct communion again.  He also said he himself would not die.  He died a month later.

 

His sister said He lived such a holy life, it is impossible that God would allow him to be deceived.

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