Jump to content

Photo

Speaking In Tongues


  • Please log in to reply
94 replies to this topic

#21 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:28 AM

So what about today's tongues that do have an interpretation?  I've seen that done in the charasmatic churches.  Everybody is praising or praying to God in tongues then there's this quiet lull as if everyone instinctively knows a message is about to come forth and one person speaks out in tongues while everyone listens and waits for interpretation...then someone interprets.  I was also in a service years ago where this happened where apparently the tongue spoken was in Greek and there was a Greek woman there who understood.  There was also an interpretation for everyone else to understand.  What is that about?

where there are more than three and not speaking it in order and there is not interpretation they are in disobedience to God's word.  If there are more then three and not done one at a time that is disobedience and well even if there is an interpretation.

 

Was it edifying or was it condemning?


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 11:46 AM.


#22 GraceSaved

GraceSaved

    Daughter of the King of kings

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 540 posts
136
Excellent
  • LocationU.S.A.

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:24 AM

I honestly can't remember.  It has been years ago.  When it was done in the church, I believe it must have been edifying because everyone seemed happy afterward.  However, I do remember one instance during a prayer meeting where an interpretation came across seeming to be reprimanding.  The message was something like not having enough faith and when I say something I will do it..."thus sayeth the Lord."



#23 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:37 AM

I honestly can't remember.  It has been years ago.  When it was done in the church, I believe it must have been edifying because everyone seemed happy afterward.  However, I do remember one instance during a prayer meeting where an interpretation came across seeming to be reprimanding.  The message was something like not having enough faith and when I say something I will do it..."thus sayeth the Lord."

that last one may not have been from the Lord.

 

I was witnessing to a lady on a short term mission trip to a So East Asian country.  Our translator started to translate what shared and she stopped him and said (which had to be translated for me) that she understood me and heard me speak in her native tongue of which I was not trained in or spoke.  but as far as I know our whole team who was present heard me speak in English. 

 

I heard of a young Jewish lady getting saved because one person spoke in a High Forum of French and another lady interpreted and supposedly neither of them knew this type of French, the young Jewish lady was trained in that language and was wondering why the other had interpreted it. She verified that it was the correct translation and was told neither one of them learned or spoke French at all.

 

I don't know of anyone who speaks in an unknown tongue in their private time with God where Paul says, they speak unto God.  Of course I don't go around listing or spying on someone who is in their private time with God to see if they are speaking in tongues or not.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 11:38 AM.


#24 GraceSaved

GraceSaved

    Daughter of the King of kings

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 540 posts
136
Excellent
  • LocationU.S.A.

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:38 AM

Then there's the teaching that one should use it in their private prayer.  I have never known anyone that has interpreted their own tongues during private prayer.



#25 Invicta

Invicta

    Super Contributor

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 5,480 posts
560
Excellent
  • LocationWhitstable, Kent, England

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:49 AM

So what about today's tongues that do have an interpretation?  I've seen that done in the charasmatic churches.  Everybody is praising or praying to God in tongues then there's this quiet lull as if everyone instinctively knows a message is about to come forth and one person speaks out in tongues while everyone listens and waits for interpretation...then someone interprets.  I was also in a service years ago where this happened where apparently the tongue spoken was in Greek and there was a Greek woman there who understood.  There was also an interpretation for everyone else to understand.  What is that about?

 

180 years ago, William Goode wrote a book on the then charismatic movement.  It had a very long title but my library shortened it to Goode's Modern Claims (to the Extraordinary gifts of thr Holy Spirit...........) dated 1834.  

 

 

In it he says that in the past there were those who spoke actual languages and gives a number of examples, particularly the Camisards or French Prophets, where many of the prophets were children. Many of these were attested others as true.  The main work he quotes from is Warnings by Elias Marion dated 1705 (If I remember correctly)    Many of these children spoke in good French which was not a language of their area or class.  One example was a child who could not speak or go on its own speaking in good French.  You can find a copy in Dr William's library, London, but they don't lend out books dated before 1800.  

 

Mr Goode's book was republished in a limited edition about 20 years ago under the title of Charismatic Confusion.

 

Regarding not being deceived.

 

A leading English charismatic in the 17th century was John Mason, died 1694. Also a hymn writer.   He said Jesus appeared to him on Easter Monday 1694 and after that date said he would not conduct communion again.  He also said he himself would not die.  He died a month later.

 

His sister said He lived such a holy life, it is impossible that God would allow him to be deceived.



#26 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:50 AM

Then there's the teaching that one should use it in their private prayer.  I have never known anyone that has interpreted their own tongues during private prayer.

1Cor 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Cor 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; . .

1Cor 14:14 For if I pray in an unknown tongue, my spirit prayeth, but my understanding is unfruitful.

 

Now these are the three verses they will use to teach that it is ok to speak in tongues in your private time in prayer.  But Paul says "IF" not that he did. He is trying to clarify that "IF" he did his understanding will be unfruitful.  So in that case it is not beneficial even to the one praying in private unto God in an unknown tongue.  the edification of verse 4 then is more of a building up of ones ego rather than building up his spiritualist.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 11:53 AM.


#27 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 11:54 AM

I have heard recordings of Buddhist Monks who were never trained in English speak perfect English by Christian Missionaries to China and Tibet.



#28 GraceSaved

GraceSaved

    Daughter of the King of kings

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 540 posts
136
Excellent
  • LocationU.S.A.

Posted 27 July 2014 - 01:30 PM

AV...another scripture they use is where Simon the sorcerer wanted to buy the power.  They ask themselves what was it that manifested that Simon wanted to buy?  Could it be the manifestation of the cloven tongues of fire as recorded in acts rather than assuming he was witnessing them speak a "spiritual language" as is practiced today? 



#29 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 05:27 PM

AV...another scripture they use is where Simon the sorcerer wanted to buy the power.  They ask themselves what was it that manifested that Simon wanted to buy?  Could it be the manifestation of the cloven tongues of fire as recorded in acts rather than assuming he was witnessing them speak a "spiritual language" as is practiced today? 

Then they are in error not knowing the word of God and quick to make their opinion or assumption co-equal to the word of God thereby leavening or corrupting the word of God.

 

Acts 8:14 ¶ Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
 15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
 16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
 17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
 18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
 19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
 20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.
 21 Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter: for thy heart is not right in the sight of God.
 22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.
 23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

 

The Scriptures don't say that it was tongues that made him want the gift.  It could have been, but when something is not clearly stated in scripture it becomes a supposition, assumption or opinion rather than the words of God.  And in a way corrupts the word of God.  We need stick to the clear word and things are easier to understand.  He was after the ability to lay hands on people and they receive the Holy Ghost and all the benefits that go with that.

 

The previous verses to this event with Simon the sorcerer it tells us what led up to the place where he becomes covetous for the gift of laying on of hands, Acts 8:4 ¶ Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word.
 5 Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them.
 6 And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.
 7 For unclean spirits, crying with loud voice, came out of many that were possessed with them: and many taken with palsies, and that were lame, were healed.
(you will notice it does not say ALL but many)
 8 And there was great joy in that city.  Now here comes Simon
 9 But there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery, and bewitched the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one:
 10 To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God.
 11 And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had bewitched them with sorceries.
 12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

 13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.  He was seeing the healings, the miracles, and the signs and then Peter comes along and they receive the Holy Ghost which could have manifested it self in many ways that made him lust for this power.  When he saw what Peter was doing he wanted it too.  He never offered Philip money for the ability to heal or do miracles but he was quick to ask Peter and when he did he was rebuked.

 

Anyone who would use these verse to teach it is ok to desire tongues or use tongues is like Simon lustful for power and recognition, tied up a a bond of iniquity (self-will).


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 05:34 PM.


#30 DaveW

DaveW

    Resident Aussie and general dumb bloke

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,380 posts
1,917
Excellent
  • LocationI'm a West Aussie

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:29 PM

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Tongues have ceased.

#31 prophet1

prophet1

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 701 posts
215
Excellent

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:30 PM

You need to be very careful because Paul taught that the gift of tongues was from the Holy Ghost, and the qualifier is that if it was interpreted then we know it was of God because it brought edification.

The unknown uninterpreted tongue known as an unknown tongue could be of the Holy Ghost too because it was for the one who did it is being edified, but the body is not being edified. Pauls teaching is about who is doing it where and how and its outcome.

1Co 14:10
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

This verse tells you that every single tongue, that Paul mentioned, was a kmown language of the Earth.

I have dealt with Charismatics who became possessed by "speaking in tongues".

You wanna warn someone to be careful? Warn them to believe the scripture, and speak in words easy to be understood.

#32 prophet1

prophet1

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 701 posts
215
Excellent

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:36 PM

that last one may not have been from the Lord.

I was witnessing to a lady on a short term mission trip to a So East Asian country. Our translator started to translate what shared and she stopped him and said (which had to be translated for me) that she understood me and heard me speak in her native tongue of which I was not trained in or spoke. but as far as I know our whole team who was present heard me speak in English.

I heard of a young Jewish lady getting saved because one person spoke in a High Forum of French and another lady interpreted and supposedly neither of them knew this type of French, the young Jewish lady was trained in that language and was wondering why the other had interpreted it. She verified that it was the correct translation and was told neither one of them learned or spoke French at all.

I don't know of anyone who speaks in an unknown tongue in their private time with God where Paul says, they speak unto God. Of course I don't go around listing or spying on someone who is in their private time with God to see if they are speaking in tongues or not.

Tongues is a sign to unbelievers.

You weren't speaking in a tongue unknown to you.

The unbeliever heard in their native tongue.

This has nothing to do with the hyper-emotional babbling, exclusionary litmus of the Devil-worshippers of the Azusa St. Churches.

#33 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

1Co 14:10
10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

This verse tells you that every single tongue, that Paul mentioned, was a kmown language of the Earth.

I have dealt with Charismatics who became possessed by "speaking in tongues".

You wanna warn someone to be careful? Warn them to believe the scripture, and speak in words easy to be understood.

My warning was to those who would attribute a gift that is said to be of the Holy Ghost to Satan (just like the Pharisees did Christ).  Nowhere in the NT are we told that tongues is of Satan.  I am not promoting anyone doing it in any unbiblical way as many assemblies do, but at the same time we need to also follow the word of God which says, in 1Cor 14:30 . . . . forbid not to speak with tongues.



#34 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:37 PM

Tongues is a sign to unbelievers.

You weren't speaking in a tongue unknown to you.

The unbeliever heard in their native tongue.

This has nothing to do with the hyper-emotional babbling, exclusionary litmus of the Devil-worshippers of the Azusa St. Churches.

I fully agree.



#35 prophet1

prophet1

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 701 posts
215
Excellent

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:42 PM

1Co 13:8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

Tongues have ceased.

This doesn't say that the gift has ceased, it says languages of the Earth will cease.

Now, can you name a dead language?

Do we have, in writing, every prophecy delivered by angels to men?

Didn't the library at Alexandria burn? All of that knowledge is gone.

This isn't a hard passage to understand.

#36 wretched

wretched

    Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 486 posts
238
Excellent
  • LocationBaltimore

Posted 27 July 2014 - 07:59 PM

Tongues are long gone friends, along with all signs, wonders and miracles. We have no need for the childish when the Spirit has renewed and lives in us.



#37 GraceSaved

GraceSaved

    Daughter of the King of kings

  • Advanced Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 540 posts
136
Excellent
  • LocationU.S.A.

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:01 PM

Specifically, when did tongues cease, when did prophesy fail and will knowledge vanish away?

#38 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:04 PM

This doesn't say that the gift has ceased, it says languages of the Earth will cease.

Now, can you name a dead language?

Do we have, in writing, every prophecy delivered by angels to men?

Didn't the library at Alexandria burn? All of that knowledge is gone.

This isn't a hard passage to understand.

Latin is dead language,  Koine Greek is a dead language. Sonoma Indian tribal language is dead as are many tribal languages around the world.

 

When I say dead I mean there is no one that knows how to speak or write it correctly. 



#39 prophet1

prophet1

    Senior Member

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 701 posts
215
Excellent

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:14 PM

Tongues are long gone friends, along with all signs, wonders and miracles. We have no need for the childish when the Spirit has renewed and lives in us.

This is a heresy that we IFB have taught for years.

#40 AVBibleBeliever

AVBibleBeliever

    A True AV Bible Believer

  • *Independent Fundamental Baptist
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,330 posts
288
Excellent
  • LocationCentral Virginia

Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:15 PM

Tongues are long gone friends, along with all signs, wonders and miracles. We have no need for the childish when the Spirit has renewed and lives in us.

I feel for you my friend I have had miracles happen just this week so how could you so adamantly say miracles are long gone.  Our pastor Prophesied today when he spoke of the soon return of Christ and spoke forth the word of God at the assembly of the Saints.

 

I shared a story of a lady who heard me speak in her language when I spoke English.  That is about as close to the Acts 2 tongues as you can get.  Acts 2:5 ¶ And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
 6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language
One heard in his own language and the other heard their own language
 7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
 8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

 

I would say that they have not ceased.  And what it says will cease is clear, 1Cor 13:9, 10 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. That which is in part is said to be Knowledge and Prophesy for they are connected to being done away by the term "in part" so that which is in part will be done away with when the perfect is come and the perfect has not come yet.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 08:37 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users

The Fundamental Top 500IFB1000 The Fundamental Top 500