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Speaking In Tongues


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#41 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:36 PM

This is a heresy that we IFB have taught for years.

I wouldn't call it a heresy because it does not affect someones salvation if they teach it that way or not



#42 DaveW

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 08:45 PM

1 Corinthians 13
 8  Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. note

 9  For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

 10  But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. note

 11  When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. note note

 12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

This whole passage is talking about knowledge and understanding.

That which is perfect is in that context - perfect knowledge and understanding.
The Word of God is perfect. Perfect and complete knowledge, which to the saved man gives understanding.

The Word of God is complete - there is no more prophecy to add, there is no further spiritual knowledge that we need, there is no further need of tongues.

All we need is God's Word.

Context folks is knowledge and understanding.

#43 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:16 PM

Dave,

 

As I stated in the previous post, that which is done away is that which is in part.  what we Know/Knowledge in part and Prophecy in part are the words of God as well. 

 

So "when that which is perfect is come", the perfect could not be the God's Word because it would do away with parts of God's Word that we know in part and prophecy in part.

 

And though we may believe and think that God's word is perfect the AV Bible does not state that, if I am not mistaken.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 09:19 PM.


#44 GraceSaved

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:19 PM

I always thought that the "when that which is perfect is come" was when we see God face to face. It says "that" and not "he" so I may be mistaken.

#45 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:24 PM

I always thought that the "when that which is perfect is come" was when we see God face to face. It says "that" and not "he" so I may be mistaken.

I have searched the scriptures and it never says, " that God's word is perfect".  that is an eye opener for all of us.  It is true, it is pure, it is light but the Bible never says it is perfect.

 

But God is said to be perfect.  So I would probable agree with you that is is when we see God and all is fulfilled.  for Christ did say that not one jot or title would be pass way until all of the word has been fulfilled.   Matt 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.  If I am not mistaken heaven and earth pass in Revelation 21
 


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 28 July 2014 - 09:02 AM.


#46 DaveW

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:34 PM

The word "perfect" can also mean complete.
The Word of God was completed - perfected if you will - with the closing words of John.
Completing - or perfecting - the Revelation of God to man in His Word - no need of further special prophecy or further special revelation.

#47 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:39 PM

The word "perfect" can also mean complete.
The Word of God was completed - perfected if you will - with the closing words of John.
Completing - or perfecting - the Revelation of God to man in His Word - no need of further special prophecy or further special revelation.

complete and perfect are two different things.  and things that are different are not the same, this is a rule one should follow when studying the word of God.

 

while I agree that there is no need for any further revelation or prophecy. 1 Cor 13 is not speaking of that.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 27 July 2014 - 09:42 PM.


#48 wretched

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:45 PM

This is a heresy that we IFB have taught for years.

 

Wrong bro, maybe many ifbs make claim to tongues that way but few understand the absence of signs, miracles, etc. since the pouring out of the Spirit. Common sense screams it but few get it.



#49 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:46 PM

the word complete is found only three times in Scripture

 

did you know we are complete in Christ yet we are not yet made perfect?

 Col 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
 

And here perfect and complete as found in God's word are not meaning the same thing.

Col 4:12 Epaphras, who is [one] of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.
 

This is why we should use Biblical terms and scriptures as much as possible to support what we teach.



#50 DaveW

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Posted 27 July 2014 - 09:53 PM

Psa 138:8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

#51 prophet1

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:25 AM

Wrong bro, maybe many ifbs make claim to tongues that way but few understand the absence of signs, miracles, etc. since the pouring out of the Spirit. Common sense screams it but few get it.

I Cor. was written to:
A. A New Testament Church, and therefore relevant.
B. A group of Apostles, and we should ignore it.
?
Pick a winner.

Edited by prophet1, 28 July 2014 - 05:27 AM.


#52 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:28 AM

Psa 138:8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.

you forgot the context.  The Bible or the perfection of it, is no where in the context of this Psalm.

 

Ps 138:6 ¶ Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.
 7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.
 8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands
.

 

It is about David trusting in God concerning his enemies who have lifted up themselves against him

the Me in vs 8 is historically David, it can also be applied to Jesus Christ.  but the Me is not the written word of God.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 28 July 2014 - 08:34 AM.


#53 paid4

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:38 AM

My sister goes to a charasmatic church.  She speaks in tongues (the spiritual language modern day tongues).  She has shown me every scripture that she's been taught, mostly the ones in Acts and 1 Corinthians.  I went through them with her and showed how it was unbiblical.  She now sees in scripture but is so conditioned to 20 years experience.  I can sympathize with her because I used to go to a charasmatic church but it started to make me question and feel uncomfortable.  When I studied and searched for the truth in scripture, I didn't care about my experience.  We are not to trust ourselves, our feelings or our experiences if it is against the Word.  Of course I've been praying for her and I still think she is saved and a Christian but just in error.  What else can I tell her?  Especially because she feels deceived and can't understand what she's been doing all these years.  Any advice or suggestions?  Thanks in advance.

I didn't read everyone's post so if I repeated something please forgive me.

 

Reading your whole description of the problem I would want to be shown this if it were me.

 

Philippians 3:13-15

 

Don't look to the past but press own toward the high calling of God.



#54 DaveW

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:51 AM

you forgot the context.  The Bible or the perfection of it, is no where in the context of this Psalm.

 

Ps 138:6 ¶ Though the LORD be high, yet hath he respect unto the lowly: but the proud he knoweth afar off.
 7 Though I walk in the midst of trouble, thou wilt revive me: thou shalt stretch forth thine hand against the wrath of mine enemies, and thy right hand shall save me.
 8 The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands
.

 

It is about David trusting in God concerning his enemies who have lifted up themselves against him

the Me in vs 8 is historically David, it can also be applied to Jesus Christ.  but the Me is not the written word of God.

I was pointing out that in this case the word "perfect" is used in the context of completion, not in the context of "without error".

 

The verse itself is not relevant to the point - the use of the word gives a possible biblical definition of the word perfect as "complete".



#55 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:01 AM

Dave,

 

But that perfect does not mean complete. Perfect does not in this case mean complete that is just your opinion or you are using it as a type synonym.  But we wouldn't want to carry to much of the word complete over into the word perfect because not all the use meanings would be applicable


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 28 July 2014 - 09:06 AM.


#56 DaveW

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:07 AM

it is just plain english is what it is.



#57 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:12 AM

it is just plain english is what it is.

the plain English in that Psalm doesn't say complete.  Why do you change the word of God?  This is what the serpent did to Eve.  I am not saying you are doing that, but when we change it we are treading on, what did you say to Winman, oh yeah, Thin ice.



#58 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:15 AM

Dave, do you believe that the KJV is correct in using the word perfect instead of Complete

 

It uses the word perfect, inspired by God, because the complete purpose of David will not be fulfilled until the establishment of the Kingdom in which he will be resurrected to sit on a throne in Jerusalem.

 

Does that help you understand why they did not use and it could not be complete in Psalm 138?


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 28 July 2014 - 09:16 AM.


#59 DaveW

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:28 AM

The Bible says perfect in this verse.

The context of the verse gives a definition other than "without error".

The Bible therefore allows "perfect" to mean "without error" and also "complete".
The context of the word indicates which biblical definition us appropriate.

I am using BIBLICALLY INDICATED DEFINITIONS.
Both are possible definitions for the Bible uses the word "perfect" in both these ways - whether you like it or not.

I will not play your game about KJV. Find a patsy somewhere else.

Edited by DaveW, 28 July 2014 - 09:50 AM.


#60 paid4

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:31 AM

Now on the subject of tongues, All my IFB friends say it with me.....

 

I believe in speaking in tongues!!!

 

There, I said it.

 

Now here's what I believe....

 

We don't call it tongues today we call it languages.

 

Acts 2:1-6

 

There were not many schools back then that would teach multitudes of common people how to speak other languages. That's how God used "tongues" to convince the people of HIS authenticity. It's used for HIS glory and that's all. That's why we have missionaries go through classes to learn the "tongues" of the nation they're going to. We don't need a special language to talk to God. We have Jesus the advocate and the indwelling Holy Spirit within us that intercedes for us. Romans 8:26-27, Romans 8:34 Hebrews 7:22-25






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