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Speaking In Tongues


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#61 HappyChristian

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:44 AM

http://www.wayoflife...ere_a_sign.html

 

http://www.wayoflife...e_speaking.html

 

GS, here are a couple of links that might help a bit. I don't know, you may already have covered some of this with her.

 

One thing that many who are in the charismatic scene don't understand is that often the "tongues" are simply noises that are hypnotically induced (years ago [and it could still be so], people were instructed to just sit and stare into space while muttering "Jesus, Jesus, Jesus" over and over and over again, until the person speaks in tongues. That is self-hypnosis). 

 

As was mentioned already, tongues is simply another word for languages.  Paul spoke a number of languages, and that is what he meant when he said he spoke tongues more than you all (see, he even spoke Southern  :nuts: ).

 

I think in the case of your sister, she will simply need time.  Time studying scripture, time discussing and praying with you, etc.  The Holy Spirit will work in her and she will soon be able to leave the desire for experience behind (soon being relative as to each individual person).  Once one "experiences" that, it is hard to leave it behind.  But it has been and can be done.



#62 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:48 AM

 

Both are possible definitions for the Bible uses the word "perfect" in both these ways - whether you like it or not.

 

Both Possible is like saying probably. 

 

Why do have such a hard time with it.  I even showed you why the KJV translators didn't translate it complete as some of the New translations do, and that God wanted it to say perfect and not complete because David would not be completed until Christ return to set up the kingdom.

 

If you want to play the double meaning game.  The word Perfect here would actually be closer to the word "fulfill" than it is complete.  But God didn't want that one either because not all of David's enemies have been dealt with so fulfill would not be right either.  the last enemy being death, is not fully defeated until Rev 20 where is says death and hell will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

So in short, it could not be compete or fulfill because all concerning David is not completed and fulfilled yet.  Hence the use of perfect in Ps 138 is perfect without the meaning of complete and fulfill though it is possible but not probable.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 28 July 2014 - 12:07 PM.


#63 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 12:24 PM

The Word of God is perfect. "But when that which is perfect shall come."

Funny how one who defends the KJV to be the Word of God written in English does not see that KJV as being perfect.

Why defend the KJV at all if it is not perfect?

#64 DaveW

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:24 PM

Had enough of several thread here where people apparently are deliberately misunderstanding what is plain.

There are a number of people here who have no right teaching on a Baptist board, who obviously have seriously unbiblical and non - Baptist teaching who presume to do so.

There are people who often, if not constantly, post untrue information, and who deliberately misrepresent what other members say.
There are some here who apparently want to defend these too.......

You say whatever you want - I give up.

#65 John81

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 05:50 PM

This is a discussion forum, not a teaching academy, not a church.

 

If one person (for instance) wants to declare that Christians are commanded to tithe and another proclaims otherwise, then there is something to discuss. We are all free to participate, or not, free to read the postings, or not.

 

If this were a church or school then we might expect otherwise, but not in a discussion forum.

 

How many times have myself and others started threads in which we most all are in agreement with and that's as far as the thread goes. Nothing to discuss.

 

Pastor Markle posts some excellent material. Very much worth reading and meditating upon. Yet since there is agreement these great posts receive few comments because there is little to discuss.

 

On the other hand, let someone post saying Christian women who have their hair above shoulder length are not abiding in Scripture in that regard and there will be pages of postings because there will be a variety of opposing views.



#66 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:00 PM

Everyone knows that a woman's hair is not to be longer than 8.3274 inches in length. 



#67 John81

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:05 PM

Actually, I think it's not supposed to be shorter than 8.3274 inches in length. At least that's how "REAL" Baptists do the math!



#68 Invicta

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:19 PM

The perfect was the Word of God, the scriptures.  When the apostles passed away, the scriptures were completed and tongues ceased.  It was not until sometime later that some, the Montanists, claimed to speak in tongues and prophecy.  They also had other false teachings, one was that marriage is wrong as it consists of the same act as adultery.  They also were the first to introduce the idea that there were two types of sin, venial and mortal, and other errors later adopted by the Church of Rome.

 

Charismatic 'tongues' are not biblical tongues but are gibberish, also practiced by many pagan religions.



#69 John81

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 06:23 PM

I'm looking forward to the return of Christ when we will know true perfection.



#70 No Nicolaitans

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 07:35 PM

Everyone knows that a woman's hair is not to be longer than 8.3274 inches in length. 

 

 

Actually, I think it's not supposed to be shorter than 8.3274 inches in length. At least that's how "REAL" Baptists do the math!

 

 

Revelation 9:7-8
  7   And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
  8   And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.

 

What we learn from this is...

  1. The Bible differentiates between men's hair and women's hair.
  2. These demonic locusts had faces "of men"...but...
  3. They had hair "of women".
  4. Therefore, men with women's hair are demonic.   :coffee2:

:scratchchin:

 

kimClement.jpg

 

:nuts:



#71 GraceSaved

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 08:58 PM

Aw man! His hair is prettier than mine. That's not right! :-)

#72 GraceSaved

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:00 PM

Please don't be mad at each other gentlemen. I wanted some advice but don't want anyone to be mad.

#73 AVBibleBeliever

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 09:50 PM

Had enough of several thread here where people apparently are deliberately misunderstanding what is plain.

There are a number of people here who have no right teaching on a Baptist board, who obviously have seriously unbiblical and non - Baptist teaching who presume to do so.

There are people who often, if not constantly, post untrue information, and who deliberately misrepresent what other members say.
There are some here who apparently want to defend these too.......

You say whatever you want - I give up.

good to see you have such a pure heart and focus on things that are lovely and honest,  And that you make such just accusations and that you always focus on good reports and all your words are virtuous . I am sure we all want to follow your example

 

Php 4:8 Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.
 9 Those things, which ye have both learned, and received, and heard, and seen in me, do: and the God of peace shall be with you.


Edited by AVBibleBeliever, 28 July 2014 - 09:52 PM.


#74 wretched

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 10:09 PM

I Cor. was written to: A. A New Testament Church, and therefore relevant. B. A group of Apostles, and we should ignore it. ? Pick a winner.

 

I invite you to search this site for miracles, wonders, signs, etc and I have explained thoroughly what I mean.

 

The point is this, as the Gospel spread so did the Spirit's regeneration. At the time of the Writings, the gifts like healing, prophesying, tongues, etc were relevant and of God but referred to as childish as the Spirit spread with the Gospel the months and years following Pentecost.

Noone living has witnessed any Scriptural gifts or signs or miracles apart from the greatest miracle and gift of God which is the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

 

This tongues nonsense if mainly propagated by silly women laden with sins and emotional men IMO. Folks read emotional accounts or witness emotional outbursts and buy into this nonsense as signs from God or miracles, it is all rubbish.



#75 Miss Daisy

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Posted 28 July 2014 - 11:03 PM

An interesting fact all the years I did go to AoG, I never once heard a man speak in tongues or interpret. Since women are more emotional maybe that's why they "experience" tongues.



#76 prophet1

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 04:45 AM

I invite you to search this site for miracles, wonders, signs, etc and I have explained thoroughly what I mean.

The point is this, as the Gospel spread so did the Spirit's regeneration. At the time of the Writings, the gifts like healing, prophesying, tongues, etc were relevant and of God but referred to as childish as the Spirit spread with the Gospel the months and years following Pentecost.
Noone living has witnessed any Scriptural gifts or signs or miracles apart from the greatest miracle and gift of God which is the regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

This tongues nonsense if mainly propagated by silly women laden with sins and emotional men IMO. Folks read emotional accounts or witness emotional outbursts and buy into this nonsense as signs from God or miracles, it is all rubbish.

1. The Charismatics ahould not be allowed to redefine Biblical terms.
2. ICorinthians 14, the wrap up of a 3 chapter long set of instructions on how to conduct a NT assembly, ends with this:

1Co 14:37-40
37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
38 But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

If you wish to remain ignorant, of God's commandments, so be it.

#77 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 06:59 AM

Question:  If tongues was so all-fire important, how come the Apostle Paul did not encourage the use of them in his other epistles?  Why no mention of them in the Pastoral epistles of Timothy and Titus?



#78 John81

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 07:06 AM

What I found interesting in the AoG church I was saved in, is that during year to two years after I was saved that I attended there, not one peep of speaking in tongues, not one bit of any form of emotionalism on display, no rockin' music, no dancing in the aisles, but then...

 

Right after that conservative pastor moved to a new church and a new pastor came in (the new pastor and his wife were very Charismatic) and he and his wife started speaking in tongues, within short order several in the congregation also started speaking in tongues.

 

Within a couple weeks there was a permanent band emplaced upon the platform with players ready to "rock for the Lord" (where did they come from anyway? I don't remember seeing any of them there before). The services changed to be starting out with and back and forth between rockin' worship music, to the pastor or his wife talking, accompanied with speaking in tongues, to which a growing number in the congregation would join in with the gibberish sounds, sometimes with someone claiming to interpret some of it. Along with this some of the congregation began jumping around, dancing and making noise during this part of the service.

 

I remember sitting there rather shocked, wondering what was going on, why and how.

 

How could this church go from well ordered services, with biblically sound preaching, prayer and music, to this emotion-driven wildness, entertainment and watery preaching?

 

I left that church but I doubt they noticed because soon there were a couple hundred more attending than before.

 

It was almost like the devil slipped in the door, took over, hypnotized a large section of the congregation, changed everything for the worse and drew others in to join them. And it happened all so quick.

 

Pray for your pastors, your church leaders, your congregation.



#79 Ukulelemike

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:02 PM

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.  Much of the context of 1Cor, particularly chapters 12 and 14, concern spiritual gifts, among them being miraculous tongues speaking, knowledge and prophecying. So this verse is speaking of the gifts of these things. Thus, knowledge in general still exists, and prophecy does, in that prophecy is the giving of God's revealed will, which every godly preacher does when he preaches a scriptural sermon, and tongues, as far as human languages still exist. And as has been testified of here, and I have heard of the same thing occurring, the Lord still, from time to time, opens the ears of understanding of the lost to hear the gospel, even if spoken in a different language than they understand. But that's different than the gift spoken of in 1Cor 14. So clearly, due to context, we know that this verse is speaking of the miraculous gifts.

 

For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

  We know in part and prophecy in part-this means that as the Lord gives the gifts of knowledge and prophecy, it is partial-no one person was given ALL prophecy or ALL knowledge-each prophecy was for a reason, and was a part of the totality of prophecies the Lord would give for His people, be they Israel or the churches.

 

But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

This verse juxtaposes the previous verse, speaking of 'in part', thus, perfect does, indeed, mean 'complete'. In part/perfect...in part/complete. That which is perfect refers to the completion of the word of God, what we call the canon of scripture. Once that was complete, Once the Lord gave the last prophecy, the last revelation of His will and word, that which was perfect came, and thus, that which was in part was done away.

 

Tongues, generally-speaking, were given for one primary purpose: as a sign to unbelieving Jews, as a fulfillment of prophecy. 1Cor 14:21 says "In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord." This prophecy is found in !saiah 28:11 & 12: "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear." Tongues was given for the sake of the Jews, as a sign that their promised rest in the Messiah had come, yet, in Isaiah, they were warned that they wouldn't hear it, and so it came to pass. These are those referred to in 1Cor 14:22, :"Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe."  Once they rejected completely, once the canon of scripture was completed, tongues as a GIFT ceased. It doesn't mean, again, that the Lord can't use it as He did on Pentecost, which is, as I read it, the same way it was testified here, not so much necessarily a miracle of speech, but a miracle of understanding, though that could be argued. But when you hear that someone who understands NO English, yet understands the gospel in English, it seems to make sense.



#80 Standing Firm In Christ

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Posted 29 July 2014 - 12:23 PM

I don't believe the tongues Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 14 was a miracle of hearing.  I believe the speaker was speaking in a tongue unbeknownst to the the hearer.  Else, why would there be a need for an interpreter?






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